Can this tree be saved?

avidgardener

I have a Norway Maple that was supposed to be trimmed along the electric wires in the front of my house as they have done every few years. This year however they cut all the branches (roughly 8.5 feet from the wires) right to the tree trunk on the front and side from the bottom to the top of this once healthy tree. I think it looks like an eyesore and my neighbors agree. They have suggested I have it removed. The arborist with the electric company said this was shaped correctly and that new growth would start coming back but it will take a few years. I love the shade this tree has provided and other than the sightly look, I'd like to save it if possible. There is a Silver Maple beside it, but it doesn't provide the shade needed from the scorching afternoon sun. The cut side faces southwest. What is your opinion? Can this tree be saved?

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Jeff Darby

Although I'm not a line clearance arborist we are shown the correct methods for clearing power lines.They have to min clearance from the power wires. For our service wires here in australia it is a radius of 500 mm.

What I would say this arb has done is cut back your tree for a three year cylce,if you listen to what he advised a "few"years,what he also trying to do is train the direction of new growth away from the wires.This is value for them but unfortunately not for you in appearance.I feel this tree will survive if you let it.

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dannyboysfc

You are exactly right JayD, most Hi KV lines in urban or suburban require min of 18" clearance at all times and in rural areas 48", so they have to cut the tree back further than that to allow for growth while still maintaining the min required clearance. Also correct on the 3 year growth thing, they don't want to have to come back every year (for cost reasons) to trim the same tree so they try to get enough clearance for approx 3 years.

treeseer

How does this explain stripping off all the limbs below the wires?

I hope it sprouts at the wounds, or that will be a rotting, topheavy stem.

dannyboysfc

Honestly I couldn't tell you why they removed all of the lower branches unless they were all growing toward the lines and there were no laterals to cut back too(unlikely).

I cant say that this is line clearance at its finest, but what I can tell you is that if you decide for removal make the utility company(not the tree company) pay for it!

newguy18

Probabley to keep the walkway clear,happens hear too.I agree,the tree can be saved.see Guy,i'm not all evil
=D

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old schooler

Jeff Darby

Only the line clearance Arborist can explain his rational for his directional prunning.
This tree will more than likely resprout as you say in responce to this prunnning.When they return he will probably take out the more vigoris of the
of the regrowth to gently push back the tree.

Invite him to comment on this thread.

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Eric Frei

I believe the arborist is correct.

Those branches appear to be self lions tailed.

I have circled in red the typical branches he would be dealing with. Note that there's dense foliage on the ends and the inner branch is smooth and no laterals. DO NOT CONFUSE WITH NEIGHBOURING TREE BRANCHES.

So, for the guy to cut it back 500mm or 1000mm etc would be like hedge trimming it, to cut back further there's no targets but the trunk.

This scenario would then leave him 3 choices.

1/ hedge it back required clearance distance.
2/ lop off back further leaving long stubs
3/ target cut to the trunk.
And sorry Guy, node pruning not an option. And for those who want to see that option click this link and read this thread

The only part I disagree with is the line arborist saying that it will grow back. If those cuts are done right then no regrowth should occur. The cuts should grow over and the wound be sealed.

Here's two good threads of reference.

Pruning cuts - collar, collarless and co-dominant

In this thread below the first post has the AS4373 standards, read them so you understand what target cuts are etc.
http://www.treeworld.info/f29/austra...47.html#post96

Personally, I think he did the right thing, and I think that many years ago was the time to formative prune those branches to try to direct them away from the wires however it's pretty darn hard now and it's the NOW scenario that he was dealing with.

I advise my clients to groom their trees away from lines not wait till it's too late and the energy company takes over. when those branches were shorter was the time to start pruning off what was growing toward the wires and leave what was growing parallel to the road.

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newguy18

Wait a minute,first picture,branch closest to the ground,lower left hand cornor,has is that just a stub?

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old schooler

Eric Frei

Excellent observation.

Looking throught the pics at different angles I can confirm it's a target cut.

Back to a little lateral and shows the arborist was trying to do just what I said, cut back to a branch coming off that stem but growing away from the lines.

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Jeff Darby

Even if the tree reacts to the wounds and puts out a small flurry of regrowth it could be a good thing helping with the healing process with sugars and good stuff right to the point of the wound.

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Knotahippie

I think those cuts are too big. I can't find one good reason to make cuts like this other than aesthetics...it's the look people want.

I would have left stubbs. If it's gonna' grow back like they say, why make huge wounds to the stem.

Treeseer is right on with the decay in the trunk, Maples don't like it.

Cutting low laterals reduces taper over time, starves roots too.

It'll survive for years like that but after a while...

Knotahippie

What's up with all these cuts, none of them even go toward wires??!!

The one in yellow goes toward wires but is a stem from what I can see.

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aphid

this is a prime example of poor landscape design. i don't know why the power companies do not put efforts into a proactive effort of working with the landscape industy to prevent trees from being planted too close to the wires. i guess it provides jobs. the home owner pays the price of dealing with a tree that that is doomed in the long run. most housing developments now have underground utilties, thank god.

newguy18

Okay,i missed the lateral,i guess in his situation i would have probabley done the samething.

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old schooler

Eric Frei

I see, so we now throw out the pruning standards and leave stubs.

I doubt many of those cuts will regrow, the objective of good accurate pruning cuts is so they dont regrow.

To run a valid critique on those cuts you circled you would have to have before pictures ... otherwise it's pretty much assumption.

Exactly.

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Knotahippie

Case by case with the standards...

Advantitiuous shoots make for better callus at stem.

I might have cut more like pollards, oldest style of cutting (besides clearcutting)

Probably could have done it with a pruner, lot less chips, dosen't put tree in stress/growth pattern, far less weak attachments in long run etc...

All speculation?

Sean Freeman

For any Arborist that really has pride in their work Utility Arboriculture can be an incredibly frustrating and demoralising area to work in...I do not envy them.

The case of the tree in these photos is a prime example, the normal growth habits of the tree have been allowed to become established and inevitably have resulted in a conflict with the electrical supply asset.

I won't harp on about what should or could have been done (not planting that tree so close for a start) but suffice to say formative pruning from installation could have made a massive difference.

The dose applied to the tree is far too great, I would expect significant epicormic reponse, though perhaps Eric is correct and this will occur in locations other than the region immediately around the injuries....though there will be a response since it would appear that too much live foliage has been removed.

I have no magical solution to such problems.

Jeff Darby

Good input Sean,It would be good to take another look at this tree after it's next growth period to see how this tree reacts to this prunning.
So it's back to the tree owner to follow up later with pictures if they decide to let it be.

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Eric Frei

Yes, right tree right place, formative prune from a young age.

In this picture from http://www.treeworld.info/f9/veronic...ciana-315.html you can see how from an early age cuts can be small (to pruning standards) and you can carefully redirect the tree from growing over the roof.



Had the utility company stub cut this tree then there'd but just as much carry on, a no win for them really, at least for what they have done here a valid argument supported by standards is upheld.

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tree frog

I've worked with a tree company that cut their trees like this and it is correct fer them .They could trim them hard in the winter months cause the sap level is down and they hit them too hard so they don"t have to trim them three years from then.They can fell them if they're dead and not come back any time soon fer that tree .Don't let any of these guys just trim them take them out as well cause chances are ,it may die anyways

pcarborist

Interesting idea, unfortunately once begun, it is essential that pollarding continue. I don't think that's economic feasible with the power companies.

avidgardener

Thank you all for your responses. I have read through the threads you have provided and I appreciate you sharing your time and knowledge with me. From what I understand in reading through everything, it may have a chance of survival. I will give the tree a few years and some TLC to see what it's fate will be and keep you updated. Hopefully I will be sharing some pictures of new growth away from the wires in the future.

Knotahippie

Doesn't seem feasible to chip extra on the homeowner's dime either.

All that extra "trimmin" Turns a 10 minute job into a one hour job.

treeseer

None of the above explains the reason for removing branches parallel to or below the wires. That pruning was excessive by ANSI and BMP criteria.

Eric, heading cuts to small laterals or buds can leave tufted growth that seals well without vigorous epicormics. Utilities are now empowered by federal fiat (AFTER THE GREAT BLACKOUT OF '03) to get more clearance. This results in more decay, less taper, less stability, and more risk.

Go figure.

Eric Frei

Guy, can you tell us what this criteria is, some of us aren't USA people either.

What I circled in red was the lack of laterals. Now you mention buds ... are they different to nodes? To me buds are on the tips and not relevant.

Here's that pic again, look at the 3 circled areas in the RH one. Just like Sergeant Shultz would say ... "I see nothing, nothing!"

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Sean Freeman

I literally see nothing the picture has disappeared??

Eric Frei

Hey?

I just cleared cookies, cleaned browsing history etc so I had to reload new forum and log in etc and it's there.

Have you done something recently with your end?

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Drouin Tree Service

The tree is still there, leave it be and it will look alot diffrent in 18 months.

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