Balsam Fir And Cedar Colour....

tactile2

Hello!!

I am in Oshawa Ontaro Canada (Just east of Toronto)...I just planted around 10 6 foot cedars and 2 10 foot balsam firs in the Spring. Now that the winter months are here...what should I expect in terms of changes in the trees...this is what I have noticed so far....


With the cedars....

- A very slight yellowing of the folliage (very slight)
- the tops of a few cedars are droopy...especially after a bout of freezing rain (due to the weight of the freezing rain on the folliage)
- this droopiness has cleared up on most of the cedars, but has remained on three or four of them....

with the firs...

- Needles are not as vibrant green....I wouldn't say yellowing...just not as vibrant.
- I believe thinning out of the folliage as well...I might be wrong here...now that the grass is covered with white snow, this might be an illusion....

Any information would be appreciated....!!

Merry Christmas!

Kevin

yooper

I live right on the south shore of lake Superior so maybe not to much of a climate change from where yer at and our are balsoms and cedars do the same in in the winter months,some winters more some less. It usually happens right after the first hard frost. Im sure somone much more educated book wise could elaborate futher on the subject but im sure its nature just taking its corse.

TreeDimensional

Yooper, don't be too hard on yourself, I am sure that you can think of some things that might cause these symtoms in newly planted trees. There are several things that might do this, Kevin has just tickled the surface of the description of the senerio. Soil type, planting depth, type of tree container (B&B, Container...), orientation to other structures or plants.....and of course good old Mother nature.

Kevin, check your PM, I am nowhere near you, however I have seen lots of Newly Planted tree symtoms, and will be able to point you in a direction that will assist you in determining the problem.

Hope we can help you out.

Brent Secord
ISA Certitfied Arborist
PR-4595A

bigshea13

i live next to the saint lawrence river just below ya. cedar down here turn a yellow color in fall. if you plant them close to a road where the crews use salt this too will discolor them. the only prob is that they usually dont return to their dark green state once they've been salted. not many places use salt on their roads. the goofballs down here do and it ruins the plant life as well as our vehicals.

bigshea13

one more thing...down here many people wrap their cedar and evergreens with burlap to reduce the enviromental impact on them when their young. I dont know what your deer situation is up there but down here they eat from the bottom up on cedars. during a harsh winter with lotsa snow its not uncommon to see entire cedar hedge rows cleaned up as far as they can reach

TreeDimensional

In my last post I was trying nicely it imply that we needed more input from the tree owner. A picture would be nice! I could not agree more with the furry woodland creatures defoliating cedars for winter-time feed. Also sunscald can really do a number on the south side. Depending of the orientation to other objects (Building/other trees and shrubs) also effects the survivability. One of the things that is commonly used out west is anti-transpirant. It is sprayed on in the fall, and is basically a waxy substance which is supposed the protect from dehydration of the foliage.

The jury is split on the use of antitranspirants, on the other hand IF it is sunscald, wrapping the schrub serves two purposes. First it prevents the foliage cells from thawing out and bursting when the temp plummets, and secondly it would prevent the herbavores from snacking on the easy to get to FREE LUNCH.

I was also wondering if there are many forest critters wandering around in Oshawa?????

I hope we can give this guy some experience based knowledge, if your out there let us know whats up

TreeDimensional

I should have mentioned my last post that I once was asked to HELP my Dad out over the phone. He had crashed his computer,and he thought that it would be possible off site. As we run similar software I attempted to help him out, after about 45 minutes on long distance I FINALLY had a brainwave. I told him that I would contact my neighbor, who is a supervisor for ORACLE. We set up a three way call and in about 5 minutes my Pop was back up and running.

The moral of the story.....it can be done on-line, IF everyone keeps an open mind. The other parable is..... sometimes you get what you pay for!

mdvaden

Even in Oregon where the winters are not too drastic for cold, our evergreens change a bit in winter.

The cedars can yellow, or even "bronze" a little bit.

I was out hiking with our daughter yesterday for Chrismas, and noticed how even smaller plants may or may not discolor, like the "Oregon Grape" also known as Mahonia aquifolium - a shrub. Some were green, other gained some bronze or red.

It makes sense that the winter foliage might get a bit "beat" looking, otherwise, the new spring / early summer foliage would not look so fresh and vibrant emerging outside the older foliage.

bigshea13

I hope we can give this guy some experience based knowledge, if your out there let us know whats up


not really sure what your trying to imply but would color photos be more to your liking oh larry king wanna be?

notice the dicoloration. if you want i could mail you a branch,

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TreeDimensional

Thats a good one shea, while photos are a poor way to view anything, they sometimes show things that are effecting the trees. One for instance would be if the tree was replanted too deep......

My point is that IF you are asking for assistance, it is impolite not to check in once in a while!!! There are other tree related sites that have dealt with home owners seeking input, and there are always different opinions and points of view. In the end, if people aren't too narrow minded, they can learn a lot from other people's questions. If the original poster ever comes back on here I'd like to see you and him get together and discuss how there is probably nothing wrong with his trees.

Sorry I tried to help out, won't happen again.

bigshea13

well treedimensional i agree with you. in show of our distaste lets hijack this thread by posting pictures of what you see looking directly out our back doors. itd bee interesting to see what the rest of you guys see everday when you look out back.....even if its you dogs arse from 2.5 miles away!

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TreeDimensional

OK, Land of living skies:

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azrael

AWESOME

mdvaden

I have a view of a different mountain from each side. Two from my office window, a different from each of our decks on opposite sides, and a bigger one to our west.

So it's often easier to show this photo - first attached - which is an image looking TOWARD where we live, from the mountaintop that I'm staring at right now. The second is one of a bunch of madrone that we have on our property, other than our big oaks and the old Douglas fir.

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TreeDimensional

Thats a great view Mario, plus the bonus of the trees to abate the wind. Which part of Oregon are you in?

Eric Frei

Tactile2 has email notification on so when thread gets response he gets an email.

Hasn't logged in since the post though.

Anyway, here's a shot going over the Brisbane river on the Mogill ferry, took the kids over it yesterday, sort of like a boat trip and costs a whopping $1.30

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bigshea13

any fish in that puddle>?

Eric Frei

Matter of fact we went to this little park place further upstream and was some guys fishing a smaller section ... they were catching bream and garfish.

There is fish but maybe a little crappy smaller fish.

__________________

Therrin

<scratches head> What if you don't have a back door?


But... I just got a ditital camera today (hand-me-down from Dad, he had a spare, its older, I just need to get some batteries for it tonight)

I'll be posting more pictures now

bigshea13

you aussis hunt over there. does anyone else in this thread hunt or fish?
lets see em. most of the time i forget the camera or i just get video but i have a few good ones. first one was of a barracuda in jamaica. these two natives let me tag along for the week. one turned out to be the most respected of the fisherman on the island. traded him my knife for a tour of the west end of the island. he and his brother cruised my girlfriend and i threw the winding mountain roads all afternoon. a little hairy at first but one of them was a deacon in some church. those of faith usually are decent people. they were the hooch growin hills. got lots more jamaica pics if anyone is thinking of going. i was in the water at first light and out at lunch every day. burned the sh*t outta my back.
the other pic is the ny white tail I shot last year. our white tails arent as big as the ones in other states. i blaim alot of it on the weather. we get a ton of snow and cold weather . the deer dont grow as fast because they are too buisy trying burning calories keeping warm and finding food.
hope some of you guys have good pics

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azrael

We have feral Rusa Deer here on the Illawarra Escarpment and throughout the National Park to the north. I believe there are efforts to control numbers in the Nat Parks but I'm not absolutely sure how. They have, in the past, coralled them up and sent in licensed shooters. I dont know if they do helicopter shooting for the deer or not...I certainly hope they do. Anyway that not hunting that feral animal control.

If I'm working at the urban fringe (inspecting trees) ..there is always evidence of the deer...antlers, well-worn tracks, scats etc. An arborist associate found one caught up in a fence one day...not 100m from houses..he called the local police to come and mercifully put the beast down. (They obliged...but I'm sure he would have done it himself..but it was a built-up urban area).

The local newspaper had sevaral reports of near-misses on the freeways since the drought worsened. (Even before the drought they would come into fringe residential areas and devour gardens...I have met many landowner who will attest to this...and despite plant guards etc there is nothing short of an electric fence that will keep them out).

But the biggest problem is the indiscriminate grazing-off of native vegetation, and the resulting erosion problems.

The photos shows the degree which tracks are made through this region...this is also vertical slope here...in inaccessibile fragile areas (ecologically speaking). And that why I'm

PS I DO like to trout fish .... (Not Flies..lures or live bait) ...have to travel 4-5 hrs to Trout fish...so dont do it that often.

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TreeDimensional

I was summerfallowing through my computer today and came up with a few pics from back in June. Wildlife shots will have to be taken tommorrow.

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azrael

Herbivory and environmental degradation caused by feral deer - key threatening process listing

Royal National Park and other reserves - deer management plan

bigshea13

is that a nest?

TreeDimensional

Yeah, that is a nest, there are two possibilities. It could be either a Bald OR a Golden eagle nest. I wasn't able to spend much time in that area this past year but we do have both species in the area.

This is a neat area of the world to live in, within a 2.5 hour drive you can be from a desert (Great Sandhills) to farmland to forest so thick you can't walk through it. When I get too long to farm and run a saw, eco-tourism might be an option. You previously asked about hunting, There are antelope, mule and white-tail deer, and moose. The water fowl isn't what it used to be but we are still on the edge of thr Duck, Goose and sandhill crane migration route, and the Upland game birds (Sharp tailed grouse, Hungarian partridge and phesent) are making a gradual return to traditional levels.

We don't have sritters like Oz though, we are starting to plan for a vacation, However we had a kid announce that they are getting married next year. Travel plans will probably be put on hold UNLESS someone wants to offer us a WORKING holiday. I'd like to see some of the folks from down under get a saw running when its -20C.

Therrin

Found some pics from nearby and the areas I work.

mdvaden

Southern Oregon in Applegate Valley. 2 hours east of the big coastal redwoods / ocean.

Got Google Earth? If so, open it first. Then click this link.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=42.236517,-123.042572&output=kml
Summer satellite image, so all the grass and fields are brown. That link should drop you right on top of the madrone I attached the image of. The big green roof to the left or west, is the library, which is very nice to have next door. It's paved driveway is our access.

If anyone uses Google Earth, and sets it to display the decimal coordinates of the pointer as you move the cursor, you can find your coordinate points and substitute them in this code snippet:

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=42.236517,-123.042572&output=kml
No space after comma. May not display in forum right, but may need to right click, copy and paste to see it. Very short bit of code that does a lot.

On the hiking pages within my advice pages, I added not only the GPS coordinates of many local and Oregon hiking trails, but I put a Google Earth Icon on the page somewhere with that code link snippet embedded in code, to auto-load Google Earth for that coordinate. Did likewise with Google Maps, but the code snippet is slightly different.

newguy18

our red cedars do that in the summer espically july to august and in december january.Basically when it gets really hot 100+ or cold.Tonight its suppose to go down to the teens here.

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old schooler

tactile2

Hello everyone....

Yes...It is me. The poster who never returned to check for the answers...as one of you mentioned, the e-mail notification was on, but I swear that I was NEVER notified of any of these post. I will check to ensure that the proper e-mail is registered.

I am not gonna sit here and type excuses as to why I never returned... However, if the notification was working, I assure you that I would have checked. FOR SURE.

Thanks to Dimension and Shea for their initial help, and to the others as well....

To answer a couple of the questions posed (if you are still wondering)...Not many forest-like animals in Oshawa... We may get the odd racoon or skunk. But no deer.

As for the soil type...primarily clay where I am.

i have noticed as of late...since the weather has been warming up...the colour on the fir and cedars seems to be darkening. I WILL keep you posted as to how they make out.

My wife and I (along with our new born daughter) have moved into a subdivion with an unusually large backyard and I am trying to plant as many trees as I can, so that in 10 years, I have created a mini-forest and a privacy screen from surrounding homes. I will take a pic or two and post....as I plan on adding 4 or 5 new trees this spring. Unfortunately we will not have a backyard view like some of the ones I have seen posted on this thread.

Again...I am sorry for my tardy reply....

Kev