Balsam Fir And Cedar Colour....

tactile2 · 22nd December 2007, 08:59 AM

Hello!!

I am in Oshawa Ontaro Canada (Just east of Toronto)...I just planted around 10 6 foot cedars and 2 10 foot balsam firs in the Spring. Now that the winter months are here...what should I expect in terms of changes in the trees...this is what I have noticed so far....

With the cedars....

- A very slight yellowing of the folliage (very slight)
- the tops of a few cedars are droopy...especially after a bout of freezing rain (due to the weight of the freezing rain on the folliage)
- this droopiness has cleared up on most of the cedars, but has remained on three or four of them....

with the firs...

- Needles are not as vibrant green....I wouldn't say yellowing...just not as vibrant.
- I believe thinning out of the folliage as well...I might be wrong here...now that the grass is covered with white snow, this might be an illusion....

Any information would be appreciated....!!

Merry Christmas!

Kevin

yooper · 22nd December 2007, 11:52 PM

I live right on the south shore of lake Superior so maybe not to much of a climate change from where yer at and our are balsoms and cedars do the same in in the winter months,some winters more some less. It usually happens right after the first hard frost. Im sure somone much more educated book wise could elaborate futher on the subject but im sure its nature just taking its corse.

TreeDimensional · 23rd December 2007, 08:11 AM

Yooper, don't be too hard on yourself, I am sure that you can think of some things that might cause these symtoms in newly planted trees. There are several things that might do this, Kevin has just tickled the surface of the description of the senerio. Soil type, planting depth, type of tree container (B&B, Container...), orientation to other structures or plants.....and of course good old Mother nature.

Kevin, check your PM, I am nowhere near you, however I have seen lots of Newly Planted tree symtoms, and will be able to point you in a direction that will assist you in determining the problem.

Hope we can help you out.

Brent Secord
ISA Certitfied Arborist
PR-4595A

bigshea13 · 26th December 2007, 07:41 AM

i live next to the saint lawrence river just below ya. cedar down here turn a yellow color in fall. if you plant them close to a road where the crews use salt this too will discolor them. the only prob is that they usually dont return to their dark green state once they've been salted. not many places use salt on their roads. the goofballs down here do and it ruins the plant life as well as our vehicals.

bigshea13 · 26th December 2007, 07:46 AM

one more thing...down here many people wrap their cedar and evergreens with burlap to reduce the enviromental impact on them when their young. I dont know what your deer situation is up there but down here they eat from the bottom up on cedars. during a harsh winter with lotsa snow its not uncommon to see entire cedar hedge rows cleaned up as far as they can reach

TreeDimensional · 26th December 2007, 08:40 AM

In my last post I was trying nicely it imply that we needed more input from the tree owner. A picture would be nice! I could not agree more with the furry woodland creatures defoliating cedars for winter-time feed. Also sunscald can really do a number on the south side. Depending of the orientation to other objects (Building/other trees and shrubs) also effects the survivability. One of the things that is commonly used out west is anti-transpirant. It is sprayed on in the fall, and is basically a waxy substance which is supposed the protect from dehydration of the foliage.

The jury is split on the use of antitranspirants, on the other hand IF it is sunscald, wrapping the schrub serves two purposes. First it prevents the foliage cells from thawing out and bursting when the temp plummets, and secondly it would prevent the herbavores from snacking on the easy to get to FREE LUNCH.

I was also wondering if there are many forest critters wandering around in Oshawa?????

I hope we can give this guy some experience based knowledge, if your out there let us know whats up

TreeDimensional · 26th December 2007, 09:22 AM

I should have mentioned my last post that I once was asked to HELP my Dad out over the phone. He had crashed his computer,and he thought that it would be possible off site. As we run similar software I attempted to help him out, after about 45 minutes on long distance I FINALLY had a brainwave. I told him that I would contact my neighbor, who is a supervisor for ORACLE. We set up a three way call and in about 5 minutes my Pop was back up and running.

The moral of the story.....it can be done on-line, IF everyone keeps an open mind. The other parable is..... sometimes you get what you pay for!

mdvaden · 26th December 2007, 11:18 AM

Even in Oregon where the winters are not too drastic for cold, our evergreens change a bit in winter.

The cedars can yellow, or even "bronze" a little bit.

I was out hiking with our daughter yesterday for Chrismas, and noticed how even smaller plants may or may not discolor, like the "Oregon Grape" also known as Mahonia aquifolium - a shrub. Some were green, other gained some bronze or red.

It makes sense that the winter foliage might get a bit "beat" looking, otherwise, the new spring / early summer foliage would not look so fresh and vibrant emerging outside the older foliage.

bigshea13 · 26th December 2007, 06:24 PM

I hope we can give this guy some experience based knowledge, if your out there let us know whats up

not really sure what your trying to imply but would color photos be more to your liking oh larry king wanna be?

notice the dicoloration. if you want i could mail you a branch,

TreeDimensional · 28th December 2007, 06:40 PM

Thats a good one shea, while photos are a poor way to view anything, they sometimes show things that are effecting the trees. One for instance would be if the tree was replanted too deep......

My point is that IF you are asking for assistance, it is impolite not to check in once in a while!!! There are other tree related sites that have dealt with home owners seeking input, and there are always different opinions and points of view. In the end, if people aren't too narrow minded, they can learn a lot from other people's questions. If the original poster ever comes back on here I'd like to see you and him get together and discuss how there is probably nothing wrong with his trees.

Sorry I tried to help out, won't happen again.

bigshea13 · 29th December 2007, 02:34 PM

well treedimensional i agree with you. in show of our distaste lets hijack this thread by posting pictures of what you see looking directly out our back doors. itd bee interesting to see what the rest of you guys see everday when you look out back.....even if its you dogs arse from 2.5 miles away!

TreeDimensional · 29th December 2007, 03:34 PM

OK, Land of living skies:

azrael · 29th December 2007, 04:05 PM

AWESOME

mdvaden · 30th December 2007, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshea13

well treedimensional i agree with you. in show of our distaste lets hijack this thread by posting pictures of what you see looking directly out our back doors. itd bee interesting to see what the rest of you guys see everday when you look out back.....even if its you dogs arse from 2.5 miles away!

I have a view of a different mountain from each side. Two from my office window, a different from each of our decks on opposite sides, and a bigger one to our west.

So it's often easier to show this photo - first attached - which is an image looking TOWARD where we live, from the mountaintop that I'm staring at right now. The second is one of a bunch of madrone that we have on our property, other than our big oaks and the old Douglas fir.

TreeDimensional · 30th December 2007, 10:43 AM

Thats a great view Mario, plus the bonus of the trees to abate the wind. Which part of Oregon are you in?

Ekka · 30th December 2007, 01:25 PM

Tactile2 has email notification on so when thread gets response he gets an email.

Hasn't logged in since the post though.

Anyway, here's a shot going over the Brisbane river on the Mogill ferry, took the kids over it yesterday, sort of like a boat trip and costs a whopping $1.30

bigshea13 · 30th December 2007, 01:54 PM

any fish in that puddle>?

22nd December 2007, 08:59 AM	#1 (permalink)
tactile2 Sappling Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: ONTARIO, CANADA Posts: 9	Balsam Fir And Cedar Colour.... Hello!! I am in Oshawa Ontaro Canada (Just east of Toronto)...I just planted around 10 6 foot cedars and 2 10 foot balsam firs in the Spring. Now that the winter months are here...what should I expect in terms of changes in the trees...this is what I have noticed so far.... With the cedars.... - A very slight yellowing of the folliage (very slight) - the tops of a few cedars are droopy...especially after a bout of freezing rain (due to the weight of the freezing rain on the folliage) - this droopiness has cleared up on most of the cedars, but has remained on three or four of them.... with the firs... - Needles are not as vibrant green....I wouldn't say yellowing...just not as vibrant. - I believe thinning out of the folliage as well...I might be wrong here...now that the grass is covered with white snow, this might be an illusion.... Any information would be appreciated....!! Merry Christmas! Kevin

22nd December 2007, 11:52 PM	#2 (permalink)
yooper Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Upper Michigan U.S.A. Posts: 73	Re: Balsam Fir And Cedar Colour.... I live right on the south shore of lake Superior so maybe not to much of a climate change from where yer at and our are balsoms and cedars do the same in in the winter months,some winters more some less. It usually happens right after the first hard frost. Im sure somone much more educated book wise could elaborate futher on the subject but im sure its nature just taking its corse.

23rd December 2007, 08:11 AM	#3 (permalink)
TreeDimensional Banned Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 381	Re: Balsam Fir And Cedar Colour.... Yooper, don't be too hard on yourself, I am sure that you can think of some things that might cause these symtoms in newly planted trees. There are several things that might do this, Kevin has just tickled the surface of the description of the senerio. Soil type, planting depth, type of tree container (B&B, Container...), orientation to other structures or plants.....and of course good old Mother nature. Kevin, check your PM, I am nowhere near you, however I have seen lots of Newly Planted tree symtoms, and will be able to point you in a direction that will assist you in determining the problem. Hope we can help you out. Brent Secord ISA Certitfied Arborist PR-4595A

26th December 2007, 07:41 AM	#4 (permalink)
bigshea13 Mature tree Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: hiding Posts: 378	Re: Balsam Fir And Cedar Colour.... i live next to the saint lawrence river just below ya. cedar down here turn a yellow color in fall. if you plant them close to a road where the crews use salt this too will discolor them. the only prob is that they usually dont return to their dark green state once they've been salted. not many places use salt on their roads. the goofballs down here do and it ruins the plant life as well as our vehicals.

26th December 2007, 07:46 AM	#5 (permalink)
bigshea13 Mature tree Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: hiding Posts: 378	Re: Balsam Fir And Cedar Colour.... one more thing...down here many people wrap their cedar and evergreens with burlap to reduce the enviromental impact on them when their young. I dont know what your deer situation is up there but down here they eat from the bottom up on cedars. during a harsh winter with lotsa snow its not uncommon to see entire cedar hedge rows cleaned up as far as they can reach

26th December 2007, 08:40 AM	#6 (permalink)
TreeDimensional Banned Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 381	Re: Balsam Fir And Cedar Colour.... In my last post I was trying nicely it imply that we needed more input from the tree owner. A picture would be nice! I could not agree more with the furry woodland creatures defoliating cedars for winter-time feed. Also sunscald can really do a number on the south side. Depending of the orientation to other objects (Building/other trees and shrubs) also effects the survivability. One of the things that is commonly used out west is anti-transpirant. It is sprayed on in the fall, and is basically a waxy substance which is supposed the protect from dehydration of the foliage. The jury is split on the use of antitranspirants, on the other hand IF it is sunscald, wrapping the schrub serves two purposes. First it prevents the foliage cells from thawing out and bursting when the temp plummets, and secondly it would prevent the herbavores from snacking on the easy to get to FREE LUNCH. I was also wondering if there are many forest critters wandering around in Oshawa????? I hope we can give this guy some experience based knowledge, if your out there let us know whats up

26th December 2007, 09:22 AM	#7 (permalink)
TreeDimensional Banned Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 381	Re: Balsam Fir And Cedar Colour.... I should have mentioned my last post that I once was asked to HELP my Dad out over the phone. He had crashed his computer,and he thought that it would be possible off site. As we run similar software I attempted to help him out, after about 45 minutes on long distance I FINALLY had a brainwave. I told him that I would contact my neighbor, who is a supervisor for ORACLE. We set up a three way call and in about 5 minutes my Pop was back up and running. The moral of the story.....it can be done on-line, IF everyone keeps an open mind. The other parable is..... sometimes you get what you pay for!

26th December 2007, 11:18 AM	#8 (permalink)
mdvaden Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Oregon Posts: 543	Re: Balsam Fir And Cedar Colour.... Even in Oregon where the winters are not too drastic for cold, our evergreens change a bit in winter. The cedars can yellow, or even "bronze" a little bit. I was out hiking with our daughter yesterday for Chrismas, and noticed how even smaller plants may or may not discolor, like the "Oregon Grape" also known as Mahonia aquifolium - a shrub. Some were green, other gained some bronze or red. It makes sense that the winter foliage might get a bit "beat" looking, otherwise, the new spring / early summer foliage would not look so fresh and vibrant emerging outside the older foliage. __________________ ____________________________________ Grove of Redwood TITANS Oregon BIGOOT trap

28th December 2007, 06:40 PM	#10 (permalink)
TreeDimensional Banned Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 381	Re: Balsam Fir And Cedar Colour.... Thats a good one shea, while photos are a poor way to view anything, they sometimes show things that are effecting the trees. One for instance would be if the tree was replanted too deep...... My point is that IF you are asking for assistance, it is impolite not to check in once in a while!!! There are other tree related sites that have dealt with home owners seeking input, and there are always different opinions and points of view. In the end, if people aren't too narrow minded, they can learn a lot from other people's questions. If the original poster ever comes back on here I'd like to see you and him get together and discuss how there is probably nothing wrong with his trees. Sorry I tried to help out, won't happen again. Last edited by TreeDimensional : 28th December 2007 at 07:02 PM. Reason: spelling

29th December 2007, 04:05 PM	#13 (permalink)
azrael Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Earth Australia Posts: 321	Re: Balsam Fir And Cedar Colour.... AWESOME

30th December 2007, 10:43 AM	#15 (permalink)
TreeDimensional Banned Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 381	Re: Balsam Fir And Cedar Colour.... Thats a great view Mario, plus the bonus of the trees to abate the wind. Which part of Oregon are you in?

30th December 2007, 01:54 PM	#17 (permalink)
bigshea13 Mature tree Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: hiding Posts: 378	Re: Balsam Fir And Cedar Colour.... any fish in that puddle>?