Advice on palm tree removal

playfordtree · 27th October 2007, 05:43 PM

Howdy all,

I dont get to do many palm trees, so i thought someone might be able to give me some advice on this palm i quoted yesterday.

The tree has quite a lot of exposed roots on the backside.

Would this tree be safe to climb?

There is potential for it to be felled as the H.O. is not fussed about the shrubs in the foreground, but it is very close to the house.

If i fell it i would probably have to rent a kanga or such for the day, as i would like to have an anchor point to attach a pulling rope to, also to help with cleanup. (seen your vid's ekka)
there is nowhere to attach a rope in the back yard.

I have felled a few palms before and they always seem to go right where you want them to, but i have never done one this tall or this close to a house.

Another option i thought of if the tree can't be climbed would be to lash my 8metre ladder to trunk, then just deck the top 3 or 4 metres from top of ladder with groundie on pull rope (obviously safety harness on with flip lines around trunk as well).

Any opinions would be greatly appreiciated

cheers

Ekka · 27th October 2007, 06:04 PM

Is the felling direction correct as shown by red arrows?

Also in yellow I have highlighted that the neib has double garage and most likely where the yellow scribble is an EWP could be set up?

These palms are Washingtonea's (crap!)

playfordtree · 27th October 2007, 06:24 PM

Thanks for reply ekka

Sorry forgot to say h.o. only wants palm on the left removed
The other one on right at a later stage.

Yes the red arrow idicates felling direction

The EPW could be a possability, i will have to investigate a bit more as i have never used one (cost,access etc...)

Would you climb it?

My gut feeling says i shouldn't.
And since my little incident the other day with my tophandled saw i have become RED HOT on safety.

Sean Freeman · 27th October 2007, 06:49 PM

It could be climbed, I won't be so worried about the exposed root mass so long as the remaining soil structure is sound, as you moved up the palm you would soon get a feel for its ground stability......however why would you even consider climbing these PIA fan palms, the real problem arises when you reach the base of the skirt of dead fronds...very unpleasant unstable and dangerous to the climber below.

Fell it, and if you calculate it to be too large to fit with the cut at the base climb up 2m and fell it from that height.

JayD · 27th October 2007, 07:25 PM

Hey,
Me personally I hate bloody ladders but sometimes there's no other way,having said that, You could securely attach the ladder to the trunk to gain access to the canopy, Then you could put your TIP above the "The Hairy Leg" as they crushed their fair share of people around the world,Then before you remove the ladder from the picture you cut your access in and deal with the dead fronds, From the top down so if the hairy leg part fails its not going to take you with it,Using spurs, steel cored flip line and a running bowline technigue then you would cut all the off the top and chunk it down in managable pieces,That's only if your pre climb assessement concludes it's safe to climb.

If you can not climb, Tie a rope using a running bowline as high as you can and fell it on the full,as you said there's no where to tie off to use a ground anchor and a mechanical advantage to pull it over,Or a couple of big strong blokes After you scarf& back cut, I would make sure youe escape route is clear, once it starts to go get the hell out of there.

Above all use good judgement, Only undertake this if your sure it's with in your ability

I just spoke to John and he's going to put a post up in our thread A-Onetrees at work as we just removed one in close quarters,not much smaller than the one's you plan to tackle.

Hope This Helps
JayD

Ekka · 27th October 2007, 07:36 PM

Get a rope over the head and drop it.

On those palms for setting a rope I throwball over top through the center of the head, pull a tough say 14mm three strand rope through and tie it off at the base on the back of the tree with a bowline above where you are cutting.

I do these first up in the mornings when there's no wind.

The mess is incredible, all that criss/cross bark flys off and then the hairy crap to rake up which can also block the saw chain.

Wear thick gloves and be patient.

playfordtree · 27th October 2007, 08:34 PM

Hmm...

It's starting to sound like i should deck it, space isn't a problem plenty of room for it to fall. I am just worried about it going wrong and hitting the house.

If i win the job i might have to break out the video camera, if it goes well i can post it on Treeworld.com

If it goes bad i can post it on Youtube under an assumed name

No, seriously folks i appreciate your advice

, like i said i don't get to do palm removals that often mainly only pruning.

I have heard it mentioned before about the dead fronds breaking away and hurting climber has anyone had this happen to them? does anyone have video's or photo's of it happening?

What would you do if the h.o. only wanted it pruned?

That is an interesting rope set up Ekka, i have never seen anyone use a pull rope like that before.

Is it common for palms to have exposed roots like this one?

Ekka · 27th October 2007, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by playfordtree

What would you do if the h.o. only wanted it pruned?

Depending on how busy I am I'd walk away or get a tower from next door but I couldn't be bothered climbing it for cleaning.

Quote:

Originally Posted by playfordtree

Is it common for palms to have exposed roots like this one?

Yes, palms have a dense fibrous root system which seems more suited to sandier soils than shale or hard compacted clay ... very common here where there's tough soils.

JayD · 27th October 2007, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

Depending on how busy I am I'd walk away or get a tower from next door but I couldn't be bothered climbing it for cleaning.

Hey,
Unless they are prepared to pay you properly for the cleaning,Climbing to clean,or useing a ladder to clean no way, take down is differant. I'd walk also,These are real PITA to clean properly,You know if I had no work I still think I would decline the invitation to quote....uggghhhhhh.
JayD

Ekka · 27th October 2007, 09:31 PM

Here's some videos you can watch.

Felling a tall Washingtonia Palm

Whack-a-washy!

Warning, dead palms are mush

playfordtree · 28th October 2007, 08:58 PM

Thanks for the vids Ekka,

Don't you just love the rush you get when a difficult deck goes well, especially when the H.O. is watching!

I have decided to rent a Kanga for the day and use it as anchor then deck the ugly mutha.
EWP not viable as no access for it.
Will certainly make clean up easier as well.

Should work out allright as i need to do some minor earthworks at home as well so i can get the most out of my days rental.

Just waiting to hear back from client, confident quote went well, i will definitly video it if i win job, will keep you posted.

Cheers Simon

ARGTrees · 29th October 2007, 02:24 AM

I'd go with ekkas rope. good scarf and generous hinge and pull over by hand. Get the hinge right no dramas felling.

treestyle · 30th October 2007, 05:24 AM

i've not done this before and it may not suit your purpose, has anyone ever banged like a metal post into the ground and used it as an anchor point for a pull rope then using multiply pulleys to gain a mechanical advantage?

problems i see are getting it back out the ground. and you wanna make sure it goes in deep enough.

what you reckon?

Ekka · 30th October 2007, 05:32 AM

Yep, it's viable, there's some special type of technique I think the army type guys use with 2 poles and take wraps or something.

Just dont hit a water pipe or drain.

shaggs · 30th October 2007, 07:51 PM

i have found thick welders gloves (like gauntlets) are good for those pesky palms. dont forget the darn weight of those things when you quote....they're friggin heavy.
treestyle...metal pickets are ok. proper ones are metal rod about 1m long. each one driven 2/3 in at 45 degree angle (opposite to load) in firm ground will hold approx 350kg's.
ekka is thinking of a combination 1:1 which is 2 pickets driven in about 1m apart and lashed together with rope. (clove hitch, 6-8 raps, 4-6 frapping turns then clove hitch). this should give you 700kgs.
you can add to your system 1:1, 2:1, 3:2:1 etc.
some use a metal plate, 1200mm long, 100mm wide with 6 holes along it. drive the pickets thru the holes and place a D shackle at the end. you can add to this also.. "in line, "V" shaped etc.
if you plan on using the same pickets all the time, offset weld some steel near the end so you can hammer them back out, paint the tops yellow for safety and keep some vice grips in the tool kit to "twist" them out!!!!
cheap, easy portable anchor.
good luck

27th October 2007, 06:24 PM	#3 (permalink)
playfordtree Mature tree Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Adelaide Australia Posts: 340	Re: Advice on palm tree removal Thanks for reply ekka Sorry forgot to say h.o. only wants palm on the left removed The other one on right at a later stage. Yes the red arrow idicates felling direction The EPW could be a possability, i will have to investigate a bit more as i have never used one (cost,access etc...) Would you climb it? My gut feeling says i shouldn't. And since my little incident the other day with my tophandled saw i have become RED HOT on safety.

27th October 2007, 06:49 PM	#4 (permalink)
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,667	Re: Advice on palm tree removal It could be climbed, I won't be so worried about the exposed root mass so long as the remaining soil structure is sound, as you moved up the palm you would soon get a feel for its ground stability......however why would you even consider climbing these PIA fan palms, the real problem arises when you reach the base of the skirt of dead fronds...very unpleasant unstable and dangerous to the climber below. Fell it, and if you calculate it to be too large to fit with the cut at the base climb up 2m and fell it from that height. __________________ Sean Trees are poems that earth writes upon the sky, We fell them down and turn them into paper, That we may record our emptiness. - Kahlil Gibran

27th October 2007, 07:25 PM	#5 (permalink)
JayD Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sydney Posts: 926	Re: Advice on palm tree removal Hey, Me personally I hate bloody ladders but sometimes there's no other way,having said that, You could securely attach the ladder to the trunk to gain access to the canopy, Then you could put your TIP above the "The Hairy Leg" as they crushed their fair share of people around the world,Then before you remove the ladder from the picture you cut your access in and deal with the dead fronds, From the top down so if the hairy leg part fails its not going to take you with it,Using spurs, steel cored flip line and a running bowline technigue then you would cut all the off the top and chunk it down in managable pieces,That's only if your pre climb assessement concludes it's safe to climb. If you can not climb, Tie a rope using a running bowline as high as you can and fell it on the full,as you said there's no where to tie off to use a ground anchor and a mechanical advantage to pull it over,Or a couple of big strong blokes After you scarf& back cut, I would make sure youe escape route is clear, once it starts to go get the hell out of there. Above all use good judgement, Only undertake this if your sure it's with in your ability I just spoke to John and he's going to put a post up in our thread A-Onetrees at work as we just removed one in close quarters,not much smaller than the one's you plan to tackle. Hope This Helps JayD __________________ Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Last edited by JayD : 27th October 2007 at 07:31 PM. Reason: \further thought

27th October 2007, 08:34 PM	#7 (permalink)
playfordtree Mature tree Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Adelaide Australia Posts: 340	Re: Advice on palm tree removal Hmm... It's starting to sound like i should deck it, space isn't a problem plenty of room for it to fall. I am just worried about it going wrong and hitting the house. If i win the job i might have to break out the video camera, if it goes well i can post it on Treeworld.com If it goes bad i can post it on Youtube under an assumed name No, seriously folks i appreciate your advice , like i said i don't get to do palm removals that often mainly only pruning. I have heard it mentioned before about the dead fronds breaking away and hurting climber has anyone had this happen to them? does anyone have video's or photo's of it happening? What would you do if the h.o. only wanted it pruned? That is an interesting rope set up Ekka, i have never seen anyone use a pull rope like that before. Is it common for palms to have exposed roots like this one?

27th October 2007, 09:31 PM	#10 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,830	Re: Advice on palm tree removal Here's some videos you can watch. Felling a tall Washingtonia Palm Whack-a-washy! Warning, dead palms are mush __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding and Stump Removal Brisbane Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations, Developer, Tree and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

28th October 2007, 08:58 PM	#11 (permalink)
playfordtree Mature tree Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Adelaide Australia Posts: 340	Re: Advice on palm tree removal Thanks for the vids Ekka, Don't you just love the rush you get when a difficult deck goes well, especially when the H.O. is watching! I have decided to rent a Kanga for the day and use it as anchor then deck the ugly mutha. EWP not viable as no access for it. Will certainly make clean up easier as well. Should work out allright as i need to do some minor earthworks at home as well so i can get the most out of my days rental. Just waiting to hear back from client, confident quote went well, i will definitly video it if i win job, will keep you posted. Cheers Simon

29th October 2007, 02:24 AM	#12 (permalink)
ARGTrees Sappling Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 34	Re: Advice on palm tree removal I'd go with ekkas rope. good scarf and generous hinge and pull over by hand. Get the hinge right no dramas felling. __________________ ARGtrees Truck and Chipper Hire Australia

30th October 2007, 05:24 AM	#13 (permalink)
treestyle Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: North Brisbane Posts: 128	Re: Advice on palm tree removal i've not done this before and it may not suit your purpose, has anyone ever banged like a metal post into the ground and used it as an anchor point for a pull rope then using multiply pulleys to gain a mechanical advantage? problems i see are getting it back out the ground. and you wanna make sure it goes in deep enough. what you reckon?

30th October 2007, 05:32 AM	#14 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,830	Re: Advice on palm tree removal Yep, it's viable, there's some special type of technique I think the army type guys use with 2 poles and take wraps or something. Just dont hit a water pipe or drain. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding and Stump Removal Brisbane Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations, Developer, Tree and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

30th October 2007, 07:51 PM	#15 (permalink)
shaggs Mature tree Join Date: May 2007 Location: sydney Posts: 462	Re: Advice on palm tree removal i have found thick welders gloves (like gauntlets) are good for those pesky palms. dont forget the darn weight of those things when you quote....they're friggin heavy. treestyle...metal pickets are ok. proper ones are metal rod about 1m long. each one driven 2/3 in at 45 degree angle (opposite to load) in firm ground will hold approx 350kg's. ekka is thinking of a combination 1:1 which is 2 pickets driven in about 1m apart and lashed together with rope. (clove hitch, 6-8 raps, 4-6 frapping turns then clove hitch). this should give you 700kgs. you can add to your system 1:1, 2:1, 3:2:1 etc. some use a metal plate, 1200mm long, 100mm wide with 6 holes along it. drive the pickets thru the holes and place a D shackle at the end. you can add to this also.. "in line, "V" shaped etc. if you plan on using the same pickets all the time, offset weld some steel near the end so you can hammer them back out, paint the tops yellow for safety and keep some vice grips in the tool kit to "twist" them out!!!! cheap, easy portable anchor. good luck

30th October 2007, 10:42 PM	#16 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane P