Advice on palm tree removal

playfordtree · 28th October 2007, 11:43 AM

Howdy all,

I dont get to do many palm trees, so i thought someone might be able to give me some advice on this palm i quoted yesterday.

The tree has quite a lot of exposed roots on the backside.

Would this tree be safe to climb?

There is potential for it to be felled as the H.O. is not fussed about the shrubs in the foreground, but it is very close to the house.

If i fell it i would probably have to rent a kanga or such for the day, as i would like to have an anchor point to attach a pulling rope to, also to help with cleanup. (seen your vid's ekka)
there is nowhere to attach a rope in the back yard.

I have felled a few palms before and they always seem to go right where you want them to, but i have never done one this tall or this close to a house.

Another option i thought of if the tree can't be climbed would be to lash my 8metre ladder to trunk, then just deck the top 3 or 4 metres from top of ladder with groundie on pull rope (obviously safety harness on with flip lines around trunk as well).

Any opinions would be greatly appreiciated

cheers

Eric Frei · 28th October 2007, 12:04 PM

Is the felling direction correct as shown by red arrows?

Also in yellow I have highlighted that the neib has double garage and most likely where the yellow scribble is an EWP could be set up?

These palms are Washingtonea's (crap!)

playfordtree · 28th October 2007, 12:24 PM

Thanks for reply ekka

Sorry forgot to say h.o. only wants palm on the left removed
The other one on right at a later stage.

Yes the red arrow idicates felling direction

The EPW could be a possability, i will have to investigate a bit more as i have never used one (cost,access etc...)

Would you climb it?

My gut feeling says i shouldn't.
And since my little incident the other day with my tophandled saw i have become RED HOT on safety.

Sean Freeman · 28th October 2007, 12:49 PM

It could be climbed, I won't be so worried about the exposed root mass so long as the remaining soil structure is sound, as you moved up the palm you would soon get a feel for its ground stability......however why would you even consider climbing these PIA fan palms, the real problem arises when you reach the base of the skirt of dead fronds...very unpleasant unstable and dangerous to the climber below.

Fell it, and if you calculate it to be too large to fit with the cut at the base climb up 2m and fell it from that height.

Jeff Darby · 28th October 2007, 01:25 PM

Hey,
Me personally I hate bloody ladders but sometimes there's no other way,having said that, You could securely attach the ladder to the trunk to gain access to the canopy, Then you could put your TIP above the "The Hairy Leg" as they crushed their fair share of people around the world,Then before you remove the ladder from the picture you cut your access in and deal with the dead fronds, From the top down so if the hairy leg part fails its not going to take you with it,Using spurs, steel cored flip line and a running bowline technigue then you would cut all the off the top and chunk it down in managable pieces,That's only if your pre climb assessement concludes it's safe to climb.

If you can not climb, Tie a rope using a running bowline as high as you can and fell it on the full,as you said there's no where to tie off to use a ground anchor and a mechanical advantage to pull it over,Or a couple of big strong blokes After you scarf& back cut, I would make sure youe escape route is clear, once it starts to go get the hell out of there.

Above all use good judgement, Only undertake this if your sure it's with in your ability

I just spoke to John and he's going to put a post up in our thread A-Onetrees at work as we just removed one in close quarters,not much smaller than the one's you plan to tackle.

Hope This Helps
JayD

Eric Frei · 28th October 2007, 01:36 PM

Get a rope over the head and drop it.

On those palms for setting a rope I throwball over top through the center of the head, pull a tough say 14mm three strand rope through and tie it off at the base on the back of the tree with a bowline above where you are cutting.

I do these first up in the mornings when there's no wind.

The mess is incredible, all that criss/cross bark flys off and then the hairy crap to rake up which can also block the saw chain.

Wear thick gloves and be patient.

playfordtree · 28th October 2007, 02:34 PM

Hmm...

It's starting to sound like i should deck it, space isn't a problem plenty of room for it to fall. I am just worried about it going wrong and hitting the house.

If i win the job i might have to break out the video camera, if it goes well i can post it on Treeworld.com

If it goes bad i can post it on Youtube under an assumed name

No, seriously folks i appreciate your advice

, like i said i don't get to do palm removals that often mainly only pruning.

I have heard it mentioned before about the dead fronds breaking away and hurting climber has anyone had this happen to them? does anyone have video's or photo's of it happening?

What would you do if the h.o. only wanted it pruned?

That is an interesting rope set up Ekka, i have never seen anyone use a pull rope like that before.

Is it common for palms to have exposed roots like this one?

Eric Frei · 28th October 2007, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by playfordtree

What would you do if the h.o. only wanted it pruned?

Depending on how busy I am I'd walk away or get a tower from next door but I couldn't be bothered climbing it for cleaning.

Quote:

Originally Posted by playfordtree

Is it common for palms to have exposed roots like this one?

Yes, palms have a dense fibrous root system which seems more suited to sandier soils than shale or hard compacted clay ... very common here where there's tough soils.

Jeff Darby · 28th October 2007, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

Depending on how busy I am I'd walk away or get a tower from next door but I couldn't be bothered climbing it for cleaning.

Hey,
Unless they are prepared to pay you properly for the cleaning,Climbing to clean,or useing a ladder to clean no way, take down is differant. I'd walk also,These are real PITA to clean properly,You know if I had no work I still think I would decline the invitation to quote....uggghhhhhh.
JayD

Eric Frei · 28th October 2007, 03:31 PM

Here's some videos you can watch.

Felling a tall Washingtonia Palm

Whack-a-washy!

Warning, dead palms are mush

playfordtree · 29th October 2007, 02:58 PM

Thanks for the vids Ekka,

Don't you just love the rush you get when a difficult deck goes well, especially when the H.O. is watching!

I have decided to rent a Kanga for the day and use it as anchor then deck the ugly mutha.
EWP not viable as no access for it.
Will certainly make clean up easier as well.

Should work out allright as i need to do some minor earthworks at home as well so i can get the most out of my days rental.

Just waiting to hear back from client, confident quote went well, i will definitly video it if i win job, will keep you posted.

Cheers Simon

ARGTrees · 29th October 2007, 08:24 PM

I'd go with ekkas rope. good scarf and generous hinge and pull over by hand. Get the hinge right no dramas felling.

treestyle · 30th October 2007, 11:24 PM

i've not done this before and it may not suit your purpose, has anyone ever banged like a metal post into the ground and used it as an anchor point for a pull rope then using multiply pulleys to gain a mechanical advantage?

problems i see are getting it back out the ground. and you wanna make sure it goes in deep enough.

what you reckon?

Eric Frei · 30th October 2007, 11:32 PM

Yep, it's viable, there's some special type of technique I think the army type guys use with 2 poles and take wraps or something.

Just dont hit a water pipe or drain.

shaggs · 31st October 2007, 01:51 PM

i have found thick welders gloves (like gauntlets) are good for those pesky palms. dont forget the darn weight of those things when you quote....they're friggin heavy.
treestyle...metal pickets are ok. proper ones are metal rod about 1m long. each one driven 2/3 in at 45 degree angle (opposite to load) in firm ground will hold approx 350kg's.
ekka is thinking of a combination 1:1 which is 2 pickets driven in about 1m apart and lashed together with rope. (clove hitch, 6-8 raps, 4-6 frapping turns then clove hitch). this should give you 700kgs.
you can add to your system 1:1, 2:1, 3:2:1 etc.
some use a metal plate, 1200mm long, 100mm wide with 6 holes along it. drive the pickets thru the holes and place a D shackle at the end. you can add to this also.. "in line, "V" shaped etc.
if you plan on using the same pickets all the time, offset weld some steel near the end so you can hammer them back out, paint the tops yellow for safety and keep some vice grips in the tool kit to "twist" them out!!!!
cheap, easy portable anchor.
good luck

Eric Frei · 31st October 2007, 04:42 PM

I knew there was a thread on it, here you go.

Pickit System

clementine · 2nd November 2007, 12:14 AM

Ol?, G'day

Back in the 80's when I was in the Airforce we were sent to put up some tx/rx masts in the Falklands a little after the scrap with Argentina.

Anyway, we used 5ton Tirfors to help with the mast erection and to winch the trucks out of the peat bogs, these were attached to screw in the ground anchors like the one what I have drawn here. They were about 1.2m long.

A long steel bar was passed through the eye at the top and two blokes would wind it into the ground.

They were very effective anchors. Easy to remove also.

soutz · 3rd November 2007, 11:12 AM

we have used ground anchor systems, often house moving companys will have them. screw in a couple and harness up the middle with chain and you have a pull point. Washys are pretty predictiable in the fact they mess with saws they are heavy and sharp. watch the skirt of dead fronds, i read in another forum of an arborist doing a lift on one when the whole skirt let go sat on him and he died from suffocation. freaking scary. we use a picker with a telescopic pwer pruner for this type of work -if you can. do not take them for granted.

safety, have a good plan.

playfordtree · 3rd November 2007, 04:06 PM

Thanks for all the advice guys.

Been a week now and still haven't heard about the job yet,

could be still deciding, or could have gone with someone else?
Only time will tell!

Anyway the more i look at that ground anchor idea the more its starting to win me over.
cheaper than a kanga and if i make one myself i'll have it forever.

Hmmm......

I'm starting to get an idea,

I might just pop out to the shed
and fire up the welder
I'll get back to ya's.

treestyle · 4th November 2007, 07:03 PM

kanga would be very useful to carry all that stuff out with! don't rip up the lawn though.

playfordtree · 4th November 2007, 08:25 PM

Okay here she is,

Ground anchor prototype 1.
16mm steel rod

500kg swl chain

handles for easy removal

welded attachment point

I tested it this afternoon by pulling my work van and trailer across my front lawn
Probably over 2000kg's in weight
obviously less than that to pull as it is rolling weight.

To make it harder
the van has handbrake fully on!
trailer has brakes fully on!
pulled it no worries mate!

last photo shows slight bend in front anchor after pull.
caused by not enough tension on chains to start with.
to rectify this i need to reposition rear anchors.

The real test will be when i can do a more vertical pull rather than a horizontal pull.

Anyway the chickens thought it was great

Eric Frei · 4th November 2007, 08:39 PM

Very good, I think that'll work a treat and could also be a speed line anchor anywhere ... just dont shove them in water pipes.

What sort of winch ya got there mate?

Also, for your own learning curve hit the edit button on your post now as edits are time limited and you'll see what I did to embed the pics.

playfordtree · 4th November 2007, 09:34 PM

Ah...

I can see where i was going wrong now.!

As for the winch its a Magnum with a 1600kg working load

Picked it up ay my local ARB store about a year ago.

We do a lot of 4wd trips and its been in my recovery kit all that time.
(never had to use it)

I have lost the instructions and it took me nearly as long to work out how to use it as it did to make the anchor.

Anyway mate, you should chuck the tree game in and give Bill Gates a call,
i don't know how you make all this computer stuff look so easy.

I nearly bash mine with a hammer on a daily basis.

Oh.....

and thanks for the comment you left in the edit column.
(people can be so cruel when your stupid)

Cheers Simon

Jeff Darby · 4th November 2007, 09:57 PM

[QUOTE=playfordtree;12021]Okay here she is,

Ground anchor prototype 1.

The real test will be when i can do a more vertical pull rather than a horizontal pull.

If in doubt add a couple more pins/anchors, That's the beuty of a system like this.
JayD

playfordtree · 4th November 2007, 10:34 PM

I'm starting to think that the chain wasn't such a good idea.

It will always be difficult when hammering the anchor in to try and get tension on the chain.
No tension means the front anchor will always be getting overloaded.

Also the chain limits the anchors SWL

Might be a better option to remove chain and use wraps of rope.

That way the strength of the anchor can be changed.
and the legs can be put wherever.

Plus i dont trust my welding

Speaking of welding,

the wife tells me after she saw my thread "suspicious missus" in the general tree chat forum,
the only penetration i'll be getting
is in my welds.

(i must remember to turn off those email alerts)!

clementine · 4th November 2007, 11:38 PM

Ol?, G'day

You could try this Simon, fabricated from the same bar.
Difficult to form the eyes though I would imagine but would solve the tension snag.

Help!!! Can't get picture to appear in thread.

Resized + cropped pic as was 2480px x 3437px and 412kb. Now is only 40kb, cheers Ekka.

Cheers for the help Ekka.

playfordtree · 6th November 2007, 02:51 PM

Thanks for reply Clementine,

I did toy around with the idea of making a solid anchor,
but i thought it might be a bit restricted in it's limitations.

eg... if you had two anchor pins in the ground and the third one couldnt go in due to a rock in the ground or some other obstruction, you would have to reposition the whole anchor, instead of just the one pin.

The first anchor you showed with the screw looked good however,
only difficulty would be fabricating screw.

regards simon

shaggs · 6th November 2007, 07:06 PM

LOL simon,
remember its just not penetration you're after...its full penetration.
I'm talking welding ya dirty buggers!
Just watch that chain with the welds, links are very funny to full penno weld and can dimish in strength.....thus the saying, a chain is only as strong as its weakest link!
The front bar in your system will always cop it. Try working from the back forward. So the front bar is the last you put in. Either have someone hold it taught whilst you hammer it in, or start of at a lesser angle and move the front picket into the taught position whist you still can.

good luck

shaggs · 6th November 2007, 07:13 PM

Don't forget to hammer pickets in at 45degrees to the angle of pull and not vertical! They'll take alot more load that way and also hold for longer if they start to pull out.
Mark where your front picket is in the grass and also your rearmost picket (ie paint, rock etc). If the front picket moves then the system is tensioning and possibly reaching capacity. If the rearmost pickets start to creep then you have exceeded the capacity of the system....Time to add more pickets to the rear.

Therrin · 7th November 2007, 06:43 PM

As far as the ground spiking...
I came into the arbor-field 5 years ago, as a rescue cert'd high ropes course and rock climbing instructor. In my spare time I also enjoy exploring mine shafts, using all the propper gear (yes, I know, it's dangerous... but otherwise, how would it be challenging?)

All this to say that back when I was in the Az desert, I found a shaft I wanted to explore, but needed to rappel about 30 ft vertically down to reach the main opening. This, in the desert, with nothing to tie to. So...

I called some engineers and climbing experts for opinions, and fired up my Mig welder. The result is less than pretty, though its effective and workable. (and the results of the exploration was absolutely fantastic! I've links to the pictures online if you're interested).
I took an inch thick steel rod 3.5 feet long, and welded two seperate 2 foot rod segments bilaterally, so that at one end, all three bars were in line, and level with eachother. On each of the other two sides of the main bar, I welded in two oval steel mallion-type screw links which were about 3/4" in diameter. They were positioned with the threaded end on the "down" side. Then I painted it bright orange.

When driven into the ground a good 3 ft or so, at a 45* angle opposite the direction of pull, they have provided me with excellent anchors for outside-of-work activities as well as for tree work. Typically, if you can pound them in, you can pound them out as well. My only caveat has to do with soil quality, but so far I've had exceptionally good luck with it.

Ken
I.T.S.A. Tree Service

28th October 2007, 12:04 PM	#2
Eric Frei Admin - Owner Palm & Tree Services in Brisbane Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,990	Re: Advice on palm tree removal Is the felling direction correct as shown by red arrows? Also in yellow I have highlighted that the neib has double garage and most likely where the yellow scribble is an EWP could be set up? These palms are Washingtonea's (crap!) Attached Thumbnails __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Palm and Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

28th October 2007, 12:24 PM	#3
playfordtree Mature tree Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Behind Your Sister! Posts: 328	Re: Advice on palm tree removal Thanks for reply ekka Sorry forgot to say h.o. only wants palm on the left removed The other one on right at a later stage. Yes the red arrow idicates felling direction The EPW could be a possability, i will have to investigate a bit more as i have never used one (cost,access etc...) Would you climb it? My gut feeling says i shouldn't. And since my little incident the other day with my tophandled saw i have become RED HOT on safety.

28th October 2007, 12:49 PM	#4
Sean Freeman Veteran Heritage Status Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,981	Re: Advice on palm tree removal It could be climbed, I won't be so worried about the exposed root mass so long as the remaining soil structure is sound, as you moved up the palm you would soon get a feel for its ground stability......however why would you even consider climbing these PIA fan palms, the real problem arises when you reach the base of the skirt of dead fronds...very unpleasant unstable and dangerous to the climber below. Fell it, and if you calculate it to be too large to fit with the cut at the base climb up 2m and fell it from that height.

28th October 2007, 01:25 PM	#5
Jeff Darby Moderator - Previously known as JayD Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: TreeWorld, Sydney Australia Posts: 2,057	Re: Advice on palm tree removal Hey, Me personally I hate bloody ladders but sometimes there's no other way,having said that, You could securely attach the ladder to the trunk to gain access to the canopy, Then you could put your TIP above the "The Hairy Leg" as they crushed their fair share of people around the world,Then before you remove the ladder from the picture you cut your access in and deal with the dead fronds, From the top down so if the hairy leg part fails its not going to take you with it,Using spurs, steel cored flip line and a running bowline technigue then you would cut all the off the top and chunk it down in managable pieces,That's only if your pre climb assessement concludes it's safe to climb. If you can not climb, Tie a rope using a running bowline as high as you can and fell it on the full,as you said there's no where to tie off to use a ground anchor and a mechanical advantage to pull it over,Or a couple of big strong blokes After you scarf& back cut, I would make sure youe escape route is clear, once it starts to go get the hell out of there. Above all use good judgement, Only undertake this if your sure it's with in your ability I just spoke to John and he's going to put a post up in our thread A-Onetrees at work as we just removed one in close quarters,not much smaller than the one's you plan to tackle. Hope This Helps JayD __________________ Member: Australian Tree Association Join the Australian Tree Association...Have your voice heard ! Arboriculture, A life long study for some, a passing phase for others © Jeffrey J Darby 2011 Last edited by Jeff Darby; 28th October 2007 at 01:31 PM. Reason: \further thought

28th October 2007, 01:36 PM	#6
Eric Frei Admin - Owner Palm & Tree Services in Brisbane Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,990	Re: Advice on palm tree removal Get a rope over the head and drop it. On those palms for setting a rope I throwball over top through the center of the head, pull a tough say 14mm three strand rope through and tie it off at the base on the back of the tree with a bowline above where you are cutting. I do these first up in the mornings when there's no wind. The mess is incredible, all that criss/cross bark flys off and then the hairy crap to rake up which can also block the saw chain. Wear thick gloves and be patient. Attached Thumbnails __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Palm and Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

28th October 2007, 02:34 PM	#7
playfordtree Mature tree Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Behind Your Sister! Posts: 328	Re: Advice on palm tree removal Hmm... It's starting to sound like i should deck it, space isn't a problem plenty of room for it to fall. I am just worried about it going wrong and hitting the house. If i win the job i might have to break out the video camera, if it goes well i can post it on Treeworld.com If it goes bad i can post it on Youtube under an assumed name No, seriously folks i appreciate your advice , like i said i don't get to do palm removals that often mainly only pruning. I have heard it mentioned before about the dead fronds breaking away and hurting climber has anyone had this happen to them? does anyone have video's or photo's of it happening? What would you do if the h.o. only wanted it pruned? That is an interesting rope set up Ekka, i have never seen anyone use a pull rope like that before. Is it common for palms to have exposed roots like this one?

28th October 2007, 03:31 PM	#10
Eric Frei Admin - Owner Palm & Tree Services in Brisbane Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,990	Re: Advice on palm tree removal Here's some videos you can watch. Felling a tall Washingtonia Palm Whack-a-washy! Warning, dead palms are mush __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Palm and Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

29th October 2007, 02:58 PM	#11
playfordtree Mature tree Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Behind Your Sister! Posts: 328	Re: Advice on palm tree removal Thanks for the vids Ekka, Don't you just love the rush you get when a difficult deck goes well, especially when the H.O. is watching! I have decided to rent a Kanga for the day and use it as anchor then deck the ugly mutha. EWP not viable as no access for it. Will certainly make clean up easier as well. Should work out allright as i need to do some minor earthworks at home as well so i can get the most out of my days rental. Just waiting to hear back from client, confident quote went well, i will definitly video it if i win job, will keep you posted. Cheers Simon

29th October 2007, 08:24 PM	#12
ARGTrees Sappling Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 37	Re: Advice on palm tree removal I'd go with ekkas rope. good scarf and generous hinge and pull over by hand. Get the hinge right no dramas felling. __________________ ARGtrees Truck and Chipper Hire Australia

30th October 2007, 11:24 PM	#13
treestyle Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: North Brisbane Posts: 127	Re: Advice on palm tree removal i've not done this before and it may not suit your purpose, has anyone ever banged like a metal post into the ground and used it as an anchor point for a pull rope then using multiply pulleys to gain a mechanical advantage? problems i see are getting it back out the ground. and you wanna make sure it goes in deep enough. what you reckon?

30th October 2007, 11:32 PM	#14
Eric Frei Admin - Owner Palm & Tree Services in Brisbane Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,990	Re: Advice on palm tree removal Yep, it's viable, there's some special type of technique I think the army type guys use with 2 poles and take wraps or something. Just dont hit a water pipe or drain. __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Palm and Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

31st October 2007, 01:51 PM	#15
shaggs Mature tree Join Date: May 2007 Location: sydney Posts: 419	Re: Advice on palm tree removal i have found thick welders gloves (like gauntlets) are good for those pesky palms. dont forget the darn weight of those things when you quote....they're friggin heavy. treestyle...metal pickets are ok. proper ones are metal rod about 1m long. each one driven 2/3 in at 45 degree angle (opposite to load) in firm ground will hold approx 350kg's. ekka is thinking of a combination 1:1 which is 2 pickets driven in about 1m apart and lashed together with rope. (clove hitch, 6-8 raps, 4-6 frapping turns then clove hitch). this should give you 700kgs. you can add to your system 1:1, 2:1, 3:2:1 etc. some use a metal plate, 1200mm long, 100mm wide with 6 holes along it. drive the pickets thru the holes and place a D shackle at the end. you can add to this also.. "in line, "V" shaped etc. if you plan on using the same pickets all the time, offset weld some steel near the end so you can hammer them back out, paint the tops yellow for safety and keep some vice grips in the tool kit to "twist" them out!!!! cheap, easy portable anchor. good luck

31st October 2007, 04:42 PM	#16
Eric Frei Admin - Owner Palm & Tree Services in Brisbane Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,990	Re: Advice on palm tree removal I knew there was a thread on it, here you go. Pickit System __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Palm and Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

2nd November 2007, 12:14 AM	#17
clementine Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Shropshire, UK Posts: 507	Re: Advice on palm tree removal Ol?, G'day Back in the 80's when I was in the Airforce we were sent to put up some tx/rx masts in the Falklands a little after the scrap with Argentina. Anyway, we used 5ton Tirfors to help with the mast erection and to winch the trucks out of the peat bogs, these were attached to screw in the ground anchors like the one what I have drawn here. They were about 1.2m long. A long steel bar was passed through the eye at the top and two blokes would wind it into the ground. They were very effective anchors. Easy to remove also. Attached Thumbnails __________________ Meddle not in the affairs of dragons - for you are crunchy and taste of chicken!

3rd November 2007, 11:12 AM	#18
soutz Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: new zealand Posts: 80	Re: Advice on palm tree removal we have used ground anchor systems, often house moving companys will have them. screw in a couple and harness up the middle with chain and you have a pull point. Washys are pretty predictiable in the fact they mess with saws they are heavy and sharp. watch the skirt of dead fronds, i read in another forum of an arborist doing a lift on one when the whole skirt let go sat on him and he died from suffocation. freaking scary. we use a picker with a telescopic pwer pruner for this type of work -if you can. do not take them for granted. safety, have a good plan.

3rd November 2007, 04:06 PM	#19
playfordtree Mature tree Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Behind Your Sister! Posts: 328	Re: Advice on palm tree removal Thanks for all the advice guys. Been a week now and still haven't heard about the job yet, could be still deciding, or could have gone with someone else? Only time will tell! Anyway the more i look at that ground anchor idea the more its starting to win me over. cheaper than a kanga and if i make one myself i'll have it forever. Hmmm...... I'm starting to get an idea, I might just pop out to the shed and fire up the welder I'll get back to ya's. __________________ Euthanizing South Australian Trees since 2007

4th November 2007, 07:03 PM	#20
treestyle Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: North Brisbane Posts: 127	Re: Advice on palm tree removal kanga would be very useful to carry all that stuff out with! don't rip up the lawn though.

4th November 2007, 08:39 PM	#22
Eric Frei Admin - Owner Palm & Tree Services in Brisbane Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,990	Re: Advice on palm tree removal Very good, I think that'll work a treat and could also be a speed line anchor anywhere ... just dont shove them in water pipes. What sort of winch ya got there mate? Also, for your own learning curve hit the edit button on your post now as edits are time limited and you'll see what I did to embed the pics. __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Palm and Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

4th November 2007, 09:57 PM	#24
Jeff Darby Moderator - Previously known as JayD Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: TreeWorld, Sydney Australia Posts: 2,057	Re: Advice on palm tree removal [QUOTE=playfordtree;12021]Okay here she is, Ground anchor prototype 1. The real test will be when i can do a more vertical pull rather than a horizontal pull. If in doubt add a couple more pins/anchors, That's the beuty of a system like this. JayD __________________ Member: Australian Tree Association Join the Australian Tree Association...Have your voice heard ! Arboriculture, A life long study for some, a passing phase for others © Jeffrey J Darby 2011

4th November 2007, 10:34 PM	#25
playfordtree Mature tree Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Behind Your Sister! Posts: 328	Re: Advice on palm tree removal I'm starting to think that the chain wasn't such a good idea. It will always be difficult when hammering the anchor in to try and get tension on the chain. No tension means the front anchor will always be getting overloaded. Also the chain limits the anchors SWL Might be a better option to remove chain and use wraps of rope. That way the strength of the anchor can be changed. and the legs can be put wherever. Plus i dont trust my welding Speaking of welding, the wife tells me after she saw my thread "suspicious missus" in the general tree chat forum, the only penetration i'll be getting is in my welds. (i must remember to turn off those email alerts)! __________________ Euthanizing South Australian Trees since 2007

4th November 2007, 11:38 PM	#26
clementine Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Shropshire, UK Posts: 507	Re: Advice on palm tree removal Ol?, G'day You could try this Simon, fabricated from the same bar. Difficult to form the eyes though I would imagine but would solve the tension snag. Help!!! Can't get picture to appear in thread. Resized + cropped pic as was 2480px x 3437px and 412kb. Now is only 40kb, cheers Ekka. Cheers for the help Ekka. Attached Thumbnails __________________ Meddle not in the affairs of dragons - for you are crunchy and taste of chicken! Last edited by clementine; 5th November 2007 at 07:10 AM. Reason: Can't get picture to appear in thread. Thanks to Ekka.

6th November 2007, 02:51 PM	#27
playfordtree Mature tree Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Behind Your Sister! Posts: 328	Re: Advice on palm tree removal Thanks for reply Clementine, I did toy around with the idea of making a solid anchor, but i thought it might be a bit restricted in it's limitations. eg... if you had two anchor pins in the ground and the third one couldnt go in due to a rock in the ground or some other obstruction, you would have to reposition the whole anchor, instead of just the one pin. The first anchor you showed with the screw looked good however, only difficulty would be fabricating screw. regards simon __________________ Euthanizing South Australian Trees since 2007

6th November 2007, 07:06 PM	#28
shaggs Mature tree Join Date: May 2007 Location: sydney Posts: 419	Re: Advice on palm tree removal LOL simon, remember its just not penetration you're after...its full penetration. I'm talking welding ya dirty buggers! Just watch that chain with the welds, links are very funny to full penno weld and can dimish in strength.....thus the saying, a chain is only as strong as its weakest link! The front bar in your system will always cop it. Try working from the back forward. So the front bar is the last you put in. Either have someone hold it taught whilst you hammer it in, or start of at a lesser angle and move the front picket into the taught position whist you still can. good luck

6th November 2007, 07:13 PM	#29
shaggs Mature tree Join Date: May 2007 Location: sydney Posts: 419	Re: Advice on palm tree removal Don't forget to hammer pickets in at 45degrees to the angle of pull and not vertical! They'll take alot more load that way and also hold for longer if they start to pull out. Mark where your front picket is in the grass and also your rearmost picket (ie paint, rock etc). If the front picket moves then the system is tensioning and possibly reaching capacity. If the rearmost pickets start to creep then you have exceeded the capacity of the system....Time to add more pickets to the rear.

7th November 2007, 06:43 PM	#30
Therrin Former Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Bakersfield, Ca Posts: 2,497	Re: Advice on palm tree removal As far as the ground spiking... I came into the arbor-field 5 years ago, as a rescue cert'd high ropes course and rock climbing instructor. In my spare time I also enjoy exploring mine shafts, using all the propper gear (yes, I know, it's dangerous... but otherwise, how would it be challenging?) All this to say that back when I was in the Az desert, I found a shaft I wanted to explore, but needed to rappel about 30 ft vertically down to reach the main opening. This, in the desert, with nothing to tie to. So... I called some engineers and climbing experts for opinions, and fired up my Mig welder. The result is less than pretty, though its effective and workable. (and the results of the exploration was absolutely fantastic! I've links to the pictures online if you're interested). I took an inch thick steel rod 3.5 feet long, and welded two seperate 2 foot rod segments bilaterally, so that at one end, all three bars were in line, and level with eachother. On each of the other two sides of the main bar, I welded in two oval steel mallion-type screw links which were about 3/4" in diameter. They were positioned with the threaded end on the "down" side. Then I painted it bright orange. When driven into the ground a good 3 ft or so, at a 45* angle opposite the direction of pull, they have provided me with excellent anchors for outside-of-work activities as well as for tree work. Typically, if you can pound them in, you can pound them out as well. My only caveat has to do with soil quality, but so far I've had exceptionally good luck with it. Ken I.T.S.A. Tree Service

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