Advice on palm tree removal

clementine · 4th November 2007, 05:38 AM

Ol?, G'day

You could try this Simon, fabricated from the same bar.
Difficult to form the eyes though I would imagine but would solve the tension snag.

Help!!! Can't get picture to appear in thread.

Resized + cropped pic as was 2480px x 3437px and 412kb. Now is only 40kb, cheers Ekka.

Cheers for the help Ekka.

playfordtree · 5th November 2007, 08:51 PM

Thanks for reply Clementine,

I did toy around with the idea of making a solid anchor,
but i thought it might be a bit restricted in it's limitations.

eg... if you had two anchor pins in the ground and the third one couldnt go in due to a rock in the ground or some other obstruction, you would have to reposition the whole anchor, instead of just the one pin.

The first anchor you showed with the screw looked good however,
only difficulty would be fabricating screw.

regards simon

shaggs · 6th November 2007, 01:06 AM

LOL simon,
remember its just not penetration you're after...its full penetration.
I'm talking welding ya dirty buggers!
Just watch that chain with the welds, links are very funny to full penno weld and can dimish in strength.....thus the saying, a chain is only as strong as its weakest link!
The front bar in your system will always cop it. Try working from the back forward. So the front bar is the last you put in. Either have someone hold it taught whilst you hammer it in, or start of at a lesser angle and move the front picket into the taught position whist you still can.

good luck

shaggs · 6th November 2007, 01:13 AM

Don't forget to hammer pickets in at 45degrees to the angle of pull and not vertical! They'll take alot more load that way and also hold for longer if they start to pull out.
Mark where your front picket is in the grass and also your rearmost picket (ie paint, rock etc). If the front picket moves then the system is tensioning and possibly reaching capacity. If the rearmost pickets start to creep then you have exceeded the capacity of the system....Time to add more pickets to the rear.

Therrin · 7th November 2007, 12:43 AM

As far as the ground spiking...
I came into the arbor-field 5 years ago, as a rescue cert'd high ropes course and rock climbing instructor. In my spare time I also enjoy exploring mine shafts, using all the propper gear (yes, I know, it's dangerous... but otherwise, how would it be challenging?)

All this to say that back when I was in the Az desert, I found a shaft I wanted to explore, but needed to rappel about 30 ft vertically down to reach the main opening. This, in the desert, with nothing to tie to. So...

I called some engineers and climbing experts for opinions, and fired up my Mig welder. The result is less than pretty, though its effective and workable. (and the results of the exploration was absolutely fantastic! I've links to the pictures online if you're interested).
I took an inch thick steel rod 3.5 feet long, and welded two seperate 2 foot rod segments bilaterally, so that at one end, all three bars were in line, and level with eachother. On each of the other two sides of the main bar, I welded in two oval steel mallion-type screw links which were about 3/4" in diameter. They were positioned with the threaded end on the "down" side. Then I painted it bright orange.

When driven into the ground a good 3 ft or so, at a 45* angle opposite the direction of pull, they have provided me with excellent anchors for outside-of-work activities as well as for tree work. Typically, if you can pound them in, you can pound them out as well. My only caveat has to do with soil quality, but so far I've had exceptionally good luck with it.

Ken
I.T.S.A. Tree Service

Ekka · 7th November 2007, 02:03 AM

Ken,

You got a website?

playfordtree · 7th November 2007, 02:46 AM

I got a call from the homeowner tonight.
I got all excited,
i thought she was gunna book the job.

But,

It went like this.
She found out because she is an old age pensioner she is entitled to a council rebate on trades services.
A little scheme the local council call "home assist".
She will receive half the money for the job from council, she has to pay the other half.

Now i quoted $700 for the palm no stump
Her other quote $880 no stump

Guess who is registered with "home assist" as a tradesman,
and guess who isn't.

"@#$%$@$^%&*%#$#"

She gets the tree down for $400.

She wanted to go with me but is bound by the conditions of "home assist" to use a registered "home assist" tradesman.

Such is life.....

I think she is a nice person for ringing to tell me,
how often does that happen, never.
Usually you drive past, see the tree gone and realise you didnt get job.
I thanked her for her call and she gave me the contact person/number for "home assist".
Tomorrow i think i'll investigate becoming registered.

Of course now i feel like a bride left at the altar,
i've got this shiny new anchor and nowhere to use it.
And i'm hanging out to video tight takedown.

If theres anyone in Adelaide who is doing a tight drop soon, PM me and i'll come out and film it for you.

To everyone thanks for all the help and advice on this thread

Regards Simon.

a_lopa · 7th November 2007, 02:48 AM

At least she called,now you can hook up with trade assist.

Ekka · 7th November 2007, 03:01 AM

Which council was it?

Also, what's the details of Home Assist? Like is it run by one place, council, etc ... website link would be great.

playfordtree · 7th November 2007, 03:09 AM

salisbury council

i will ring tomorrow and find out details.
post tomorrow night.

Ekka · 7th November 2007, 03:41 AM

Seems each council have their own list!

Check on that, coz that's a PITA for us.

City of Salisbury - Home Assist

City of Salisbury - Trade Register

playfordtree · 7th November 2007, 03:27 PM

Yes each council have their own register.

It is free to register,

You must submit to police clearance,
Must have 10 million liabilty insurance
Must sign code of conduct contract

I only have 5 million insurance,
waiting to hear back from broker about upping it to 10 mill.
I imagine it will increase premium significantly.

No gaurantee of work, you still have to tender like normal.

Of course the clients only have a small pool of contractors to choose from.

Sounds like a bit of a PITA to start with but might be worth it for the extra work.
Will keep you posted.

playfordtree · 7th November 2007, 10:24 PM

Got a call from my insurance broker,

my premium at moment $865 per/year for $5mill liability

$10 million liability would push my premium to $1335 per/year

50% increase

Not sure what to do at moment need more time to think it over.

We are still in our first year of business and money is real tight.

Do i take a chance and up my insurance and register?
If we get extra work it would pay for the increase in premiums.

Or, if we dont get any extra work (theres no guarantee of work)
the increase in premiums could push us over the edge!

Somedays ya wonder if it's all worth it.

I think i need a beer.

Hang on, the missus says we can't afford beer this week

I wonder if theres a thread on how to tie a noose
in the ropes and knots forum?

Ekka · 7th November 2007, 10:51 PM

I pay double that! AND JUST PAID IT!

Quintrex · 8th November 2007, 12:18 AM

10 mil here is about $2300, 20 mill $2780. You've got a bargain, go for it if you can manage it. Most councils and commercial clients here require 20 mil.

playfordtree · 8th November 2007, 02:39 AM

I wonder why the difference in price?

My agent always takes great delight in telling me how S.A. is dearer for insurance than anywhere else?
He is based in Victoria by the way. (bloody mexicans)

This might help to compare,

I am insured as a "tree lopper".
I work mainly by myself, but have a part time groundie.
Unlimited height clearance.
but no power line clearance.
Plus a low turnover.

5th November 2007, 08:51 PM	#27 (permalink)
playfordtree Mature tree Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Adelaide Australia Posts: 337	Re: Advice on palm tree removal Thanks for reply Clementine, I did toy around with the idea of making a solid anchor, but i thought it might be a bit restricted in it's limitations. eg... if you had two anchor pins in the ground and the third one couldnt go in due to a rock in the ground or some other obstruction, you would have to reposition the whole anchor, instead of just the one pin. The first anchor you showed with the screw looked good however, only difficulty would be fabricating screw. regards simon __________________ I Drink Therefore I am.

6th November 2007, 01:06 AM	#28 (permalink)
shaggs Mature tree Join Date: May 2007 Location: sydney Posts: 462	Re: Advice on palm tree removal LOL simon, remember its just not penetration you're after...its full penetration. I'm talking welding ya dirty buggers! Just watch that chain with the welds, links are very funny to full penno weld and can dimish in strength.....thus the saying, a chain is only as strong as its weakest link! The front bar in your system will always cop it. Try working from the back forward. So the front bar is the last you put in. Either have someone hold it taught whilst you hammer it in, or start of at a lesser angle and move the front picket into the taught position whist you still can. good luck

6th November 2007, 01:13 AM	#29 (permalink)
shaggs Mature tree Join Date: May 2007 Location: sydney Posts: 462	Re: Advice on palm tree removal Don't forget to hammer pickets in at 45degrees to the angle of pull and not vertical! They'll take alot more load that way and also hold for longer if they start to pull out. Mark where your front picket is in the grass and also your rearmost picket (ie paint, rock etc). If the front picket moves then the system is tensioning and possibly reaching capacity. If the rearmost pickets start to creep then you have exceeded the capacity of the system....Time to add more pickets to the rear.

7th November 2007, 12:43 AM	#30 (permalink)
Therrin The Tree World Bandit Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Lancaster, Ca Posts: 1,255	Re: Advice on palm tree removal As far as the ground spiking... I came into the arbor-field 5 years ago, as a rescue cert'd high ropes course and rock climbing instructor. In my spare time I also enjoy exploring mine shafts, using all the propper gear (yes, I know, it's dangerous... but otherwise, how would it be challenging?) All this to say that back when I was in the Az desert, I found a shaft I wanted to explore, but needed to rappel about 30 ft vertically down to reach the main opening. This, in the desert, with nothing to tie to. So... I called some engineers and climbing experts for opinions, and fired up my Mig welder. The result is less than pretty, though its effective and workable. (and the results of the exploration was absolutely fantastic! I've links to the pictures online if you're interested). I took an inch thick steel rod 3.5 feet long, and welded two seperate 2 foot rod segments bilaterally, so that at one end, all three bars were in line, and level with eachother. On each of the other two sides of the main bar, I welded in two oval steel mallion-type screw links which were about 3/4" in diameter. They were positioned with the threaded end on the "down" side. Then I painted it bright orange. When driven into the ground a good 3 ft or so, at a 45* angle opposite the direction of pull, they have provided me with excellent anchors for outside-of-work activities as well as for tree work. Typically, if you can pound them in, you can pound them out as well. My only caveat has to do with soil quality, but so far I've had exceptionally good luck with it. Ken I.T.S.A. Tree Service

7th November 2007, 02:03 AM	#31 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,606	Re: Advice on palm tree removal Ken, You got a website? __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

7th November 2007, 02:46 AM	#32 (permalink)
playfordtree Mature tree Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Adelaide Australia Posts: 337	Re: Advice on palm tree removal I got a call from the homeowner tonight. I got all excited, i thought she was gunna book the job. But, It went like this. She found out because she is an old age pensioner she is entitled to a council rebate on trades services. A little scheme the local council call "home assist". She will receive half the money for the job from council, she has to pay the other half. Now i quoted $700 for the palm no stump Her other quote $880 no stump Guess who is registered with "home assist" as a tradesman, and guess who isn't. "@#$%$@$^%&%#$#" She gets the tree down for $400. She wanted to go with me but is bound by the conditions of "home assist" to use a registered "home assist" tradesman. Such is life..... I think she is a nice person for ringing to tell me, how often does that happen, never.* Usually you drive past, see the tree gone and realise you didnt get job. I thanked her for her call and she gave me the contact person/number for "home assist". Tomorrow i think i'll investigate becoming registered. Of course now i feel like a bride left at the altar, i've got this shiny new anchor and nowhere to use it. And i'm hanging out to video tight takedown. If theres anyone in Adelaide who is doing a tight drop soon, PM me and i'll come out and film it for you. To everyone thanks for all the help and advice on this thread Regards Simon. __________________ I Drink Therefore I am.

7th November 2007, 02:48 AM	#33 (permalink)
a_lopa Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Drouin Posts: 865	Re: Advice on palm tree removal At least she called,now you can hook up with trade assist. __________________ Free Tree Industry Link Directory Drouin tree lopping, land clearing and stump removals

7th November 2007, 03:01 AM	#34 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,606	Re: Advice on palm tree removal Which council was it? Also, what's the details of Home Assist? Like is it run by one place, council, etc ... website link would be great. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

7th November 2007, 03:09 AM	#35 (permalink)
playfordtree Mature tree Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Adelaide Australia Posts: 337	Re: Advice on palm tree removal salisbury council i will ring tomorrow and find out details. post tomorrow night. __________________ I Drink Therefore I am.

7th November 2007, 03:41 AM	#36 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,606	Re: Advice on palm tree removal Seems each council have their own list! Check on that, coz that's a PITA for us. City of Salisbury - Home Assist City of Salisbury - Trade Register __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

7th November 2007, 03:27 PM	#37 (permalink)
playfordtree Mature tree Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Adelaide Australia Posts: 337	Re: Advice on palm tree removal Yes each council have their own register. It is free to register, You must submit to police clearance, Must have 10 million liabilty insurance Must sign code of conduct contract I only have 5 million insurance, waiting to hear back from broker about upping it to 10 mill. I imagine it will increase premium significantly. No gaurantee of work, you still have to tender like normal. Of course the clients only have a small pool of contractors to choose from. Sounds like a bit of a PITA to start with but might be worth it for the extra work. Will keep you posted. __________________ I Drink Therefore I am.

7th November 2007, 10:24 PM	#38 (permalink)
playfordtree Mature tree Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Adelaide Australia Posts: 337	Re: Advice on palm tree removal Got a call from my insurance broker, my premium at moment $865 per/year for $5mill liability $10 million liability would push my premium to $1335 per/year 50% increase Not sure what to do at moment need more time to think it over. We are still in our first year of business and money is real tight. Do i take a chance and up my insurance and register? If we get extra work it would pay for the increase in premiums. Or, if we dont get any extra work (theres no guarantee of work) the increase in premiums could push us over the edge! Somedays ya wonder if it's all worth it. I think i need a beer. Hang on, the missus says we can't afford beer this week I wonder if theres a thread on how to tie a noose in the ropes and knots forum? __________________ I Drink Therefore I am.

7th November 2007, 10:51 PM	#39 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,606	Re: Advice on palm tree removal I pay double that! AND JUST PAID IT! __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

8th November 2007, 12:18 AM	#40 (permalink)
Quintrex Mature tree Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Sydney Posts: 442	Re: Advice on palm tree removal 10 mil here is about $2300, 20 mill $2780. You've got a bargain, go for it if you can manage it. Most councils and commercial clients here require 20 mil.

8th November 2007, 02:39 AM	#41 (permalink)
playfordtree Mature tree Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Adelaide Australia Posts: 337	Re: Advice on palm tree removal I wonder why the difference in price? My agent always takes great delight in telling me how S.A. is dearer for insurance than anywhere else? He is based in Victoria by the way. (bloody mexicans) This might help to compare, I am insured as a "tree lopper". I work mainly by myself, but have a part time groundie. Unlimited height clearance. but no power line clearance. Plus a low turnover. __________________ I Drink Therefore I am.