rock exotica

Tree Machine

So much of a hassle. In and of itself? or compared to backing up an SRT line? That sentence gives the impresssion that no backup is needed for SRT when quite the opposite is true.

Asking George for clarification is so far proving futile. Why will you not answer questions asked of you George? We're trying to get to the nitty gritty of all this, yet you ignore critical questions. Why is this?



George is preaching SRT. No problem. I like it, understand it and use it. All other aerial disciplines use SRT, no argument.

But they're not accessing trees. In our world, one single rope goes up, over, and back down. Now we have two parallel lines, both ends on the ground. What to do with it then? We have options, three to be exact, and any number of ways to go about those three methods.

So, lock into one of the methods, or learn and know all three?

That's a personal choice, but if you're looking to find faster, safer and more efficient it can be helpful to stay open minded and not make remarks about the absoluteness of anything unless it revolves around certain universal laws of physics, constants that do not change. Like gravity and friction. Predictable, never changing.

Tree Machine

Maybe I'm biassed but I feel that tree climbers should be about the best climbers on the planet.

If we climb only SRT, no matter how good you are, there will be other SRT-based climbers from whatever other discipline that are going to be better.

If you hang with the traditional 2:1 friction hitch style, just about ANY 1:1 climber will smoke you and enjoy versatility that hitch climbers are not even aware of.

If you lock into 1:1 dual-line methods you get the same benefits of SRT and then some, but if you drop a critical piece of hardware, not knowing a simple friction hitch system could delay your work.

Knowing all three, and a few ways of going about any one of them gives us a breadth of knowledge and on-rope abilities quite beyond that of most any other climbers. Add to that the vast amount of aerial rigging exercises we can perform and together our abilities should exceed that of any other climbing discipline, anywhere.

So why subject yourself to a single rope method day after day? That's self-limiting. We climb with much more frequency than other disciplines. We're not weekend warriors. We do this stuff every working day, multiple times a day in trees which are unique to one another, requiring us to make unique decisions based on the particular tree in front of us in that moment.

Multi-system knowledge should allow us to perform the other disciplines rather seamlessly, and we should be able to do rock faces, frozen waterfalls, buildings, confined spaces, etc.

Am I wrong in thinking tree climbers should be the overall best technical climbers in the world?

Therrin

Simply put, I don't think you can compare the fields like that.

You can be perfectly right up to a certain point and after that it's just goin overboard.
You can be the world's greatest tree climber and still not have any business doing "rock faces, frozen waterfalls, buildings and confined spaces". Many of these environements bring on an entire world of their own specific difficulties and equipment and technique dynamics.

I'd not want people who read our posts to blindly assume that if they can climb a tree, then they can also do any of the above-mentioned activities. Even if you had the best of intentions while saying it, the results would be disasterous.

Rock faces require knowledge about specific types of rock, and specific equipment needed to access its fall-protection qualities. Frozen waterfalls I wouldn't even go into, (crampons, reading the ice, etc etc), confined spaces you need lighting, and sometimes worry about poisonous gasses and such.

I'd suggest keepin this topic *on* topic, specifically insofar as tree-access.

__________________
Ken Fessia
I.T.S.A. Tree Service
(661) 916-4703

quercus

Yes this is definitely the case. I mean that you're definitely NOT wrong when you think we're better technical climbers. How do I know this? Because I've been frequently doing all types of climbing in the past 20 years. I started rock climing indoors when I was five years old. After that I,ve been climbing outdoors and rapelling down structures. Caving, glaciers, ice climbing, dry-tooling , via ferrata, mountaineering, canyoning , rigging, working at height all came after that. I earned different certifications as years went by. Going from instructor on rock climbing and moutainguide, to certified aerial rescue expert and others... After learning how to climb a tree about nine years ago, a whole new spectrum of techniques and gear opened up for me. The ability of combining all techniques and gear just makes me a better climber. And this is not my own point of view. Over the years we've been hiring students in summer to help us out in my business. I prefer guys who do rock climbing as a hobby, because of the fact that they know how to treat gear, ropes, and know the difficultys of climbing and safety. Occasionally I let them climb trees (when for example only a few small branches have to be removed with a hand saw, and only on no-pressure jobs) then to get to know the feeling and to educate them. Sometimes I belay them from the ground, sometimes I don't. At first they don't like the specific tree-climbing techniques, because they are unfamiliar with them. But when they get to know techniques like footlocking and double roping systems, they state that they will use them in other types of climbing as well. I've already heard of these guys who worked with us in treecare, that they are using our techniques ( body thrusting and 2:1 systems ) on big walls and technical climbs.
We have a whole list of guys who want to come back to do some more climbing to learn the techniques and to add some more self-confidence. They just can't get enough of it.
Occasionally I help out riggers and technical climbers in other company's too. They all say that my techniques are far better sometimes than the techniques they use, and then they adopt them for their own area of working at heights.
I can safely say that our techniques and gear are far more advanced for aerial access, working at height and rescue, then in other types of climbing.And sometimes I am using other than tree climbing techniques in tree climbing as well, because I think those techniques can add safety to our line of work.

newguy18

So q,did you ever get your dualcender?if not pm me and i can get you my paypal info.

__________________
Have your say join us today.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related

quercus

No didn't get one yet... And I'm not planning on continuing my search out here. I'll be visiting some friends in the san francisco bay area in september. maybe I'll ask them to order one for me.

vl2007

I use the Rock Exotica Dualcender to foot lock. Very smoooooth, easy to setup, & light. Back it up with a prussik. No parts to come loose, or wearout. Have heard that a heavy dynamic load could cut rope, but i've found no proof anywhere.

quercus

shock loads can't cut the rope under heavy tension. In fact, it will tear the mantle off and melt it. When tension builds up gradually it can withstand a lot more. I've never heard or experienced a camming device with a dynamic load of less then 200 pounds damage a rope severe enough to reduce the safety so that it could break. I've experienced a mantle tear up a few weeks ago with a large rope clamp from petzl but that took a dynamic load of more then 6000 pounds to induce such stress on the rope.
I think this device will perform big time when used in footlocking.

Therrin

Visitng SF in september Q? I'm a bit south of there but I'd drive up to say "hello" if ya let me know when you're gonna be around.

__________________
Ken Fessia
I.T.S.A. Tree Service
(661) 916-4703

quercus

could be somewhere in august too, mate...

Gotta look into it. Not very busy at the moment so now is the time actually.