Revolutionary new gear for the arborist

Aerial · 4th April 2008, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayD

I'm not sure about American law, I think you can not be a witness and defend you at the same time?... However he would definately be a witness of outstanding quality...

Ha! This is America, even the Judges aren't that sure about the Law, and here the Law is a malleable thing. Having the witness as my lawyer puts him in my pocket so to speak. I don't think he could be called to testify about this if I am his client, lawyer/client confidentiality comes into play.

If I wanted his testimony in this hypothetical case I'd have him give a formal sworn deposition prior to trial, if I didn't like it I could have it redacted due to above mentioned privilege.

Getting it in the record, if I felt it would help, would be trivial by waiving my right to confidentiality for that one document. The opposing side would have a tough time cross examining him on his statement though, a point they could bring up if they wanted the judge to disallow it.

Aerial

Aerial · 4th April 2008, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayD

... I think Aeriel, You need to start rolling with the blows coming at you.After all you did approach this from a long way out.... Accidents do happen,This is why you need to learn the correct techniques before you kill yourself...

Well I am pretty thick skinned, and thick headed as well, some would say. I don't mind constructive criticism, I welcome it.

Like anybody, I don't like mean spirited comments directed at me personally, and will call them as I see them.

I was surprised to see the site administer take out his frustrations for his inability to wring out a discount on his insurance policy on me with the comment he made. I didn't like it, and pointed that out, politely I thought. I'm not going to pester him about it further, but I think I am due an apology on that one. Unless he is a forum God of some type and is above common decency.

Aerial

Aerial · 4th April 2008, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by treevet

You refused to climb the tree until new gear came in? This locust appears healthy. Are you deciding on it's removal? What qualifications do you have to do this? Did you notice the bracket fungus on the trunk (decay inside)?

You continue after dropping a pole into the intersection (someone could have been killed and you blame it on the pole), shut peoples power off (hot wire), get the cops involved. You don't follow ansi stds for treework.
You don't know what you are doing and do not have anyone that does on job to advise yet you tackle a moderately difficult removal anyway. You use E Bay gear. You drop limbs into the street. Don't know how to rig anything. You use equipment not designed for tree work and when this is pointed out by qualified arborists you say you will continue to use it anyway. "Why don't we get out of the woods"?

The neighbors are standing out in the street in bewilderment. Come on this makes all of us look bad. He doesn't live in the backwoods, Pittsburg is a major city and this a pretty residential nborhood.

I know this is a kinder/gentler site than AS, but geeze, it is not the sissy tree site is it?

Sorry for not responding earlier treevet. You make some valid observations but I think some of what you said here deserves a response.

Look, I do take responsibility (and credit) for causing that pole to drop. It was my fault, I cut the piece that dropped it.

I'm glad it happened the way it did, that pole could have snapped off at any time on it's own, and there is no assurance that there would not have been a group of school children standing at the bus stop when it did.

The tree was dead and there were many branches and limbs that hung right over that support wire, some were 60 feet above it. At any time one of them could have dropped off the tree, taking the pole with it.

If the pole and tree were still standing, the whole neighborhood would be under an extreme risk. All of the people who saw the pole knew just how fragile it was. Before that it was an unseen, unknown, life ender hanging over the spot where their children wait for their bus every morning.

I reiterate my feelings that I believe were shared by everyone who I talked to, and even a wider scope, the whole neighborhood knows now, clued in by the lawyer who grasped the implications as soon as I put the dried out dust that was the center of that pole in his hand.

Also, after the rest of the tree was down, he asked me if I would like a drink. I told him I always carry water, thinking that's what he meant. He was offering to invite me into his house for drink drink. Do you guys get many offers like that?

You industry experts would be lucky have the same good feelings for your work as tree fellers do in that particular neighborhood.

But I didn't come here to post about what a hero I am to one small neighborhood in Pittsburgh. I came to get some help on how to do it right.

I've opened myself up to you guys for some well deserved criticism over my methods, which could stand a bit of refinement to say the least.

Aerial

Ekka · 4th April 2008, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerial

I'm not going to pester him about it further, but I think I am due an apology on that one.

You earlier mentioned how "lucky" you were that no-one was hurt and no-one was driving by that pole. Your exact words

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerial

Thank God no one was driving through the intersection just then.

Then you think you're some Super hero helping the neighbourhood.

They were live wires and could have killed people, just blow that off and make good with some banter about your inept services doing society well.... Psychosis? Mid Life Crisis? Attention Seeking Troll?

Then when legitimate trained people have factual evidence on the inadequacies of the system, with the likes of hacks buying insurance and adding to the risk and claim of the industry you think that deserves an apology? You'd be the only one.

The statement was written for the insurance companies to come and see their failings, you being a part of that equation.

The statement below is aimed at the people who now squabble over funds and money, the lawyers, insurance etc. Let them see what sort of a man done tree work and they happily insured. Let them see that we are not all alike. Let them see that they need to screen who they sell insurance to.

Quote:

Since you are so PC savvy, could you please link the claims/loss adjusters to this post and this thread etc and let them also wake up and smell the roses!

Came to pick a fight, picked the wrong jumper, dealt with a lot better than your kind. I gave you breathing space whilst others wanted you binned straight off the bat, however it's clear your only intention is to waste peoples time, piss on people, pick fights and single me out as some "bad guy" when you cant even remember what you wrote two pages back (liers seldom do remember though coz it's all bullshit)

So stage 1 since you engage your mouth before your brain is all your new posts are now moderated. You can still look around, you can still post, but we (coz there's more than just me) will read those posts and see if they fly or not, so ya sort of grounded chute packa!

quercus · 5th April 2008, 01:17 AM

Hmmm I've been away from this thread because I didn't get the e-mail notifications of the new posts...
Aerial... I'm gonna be straight forward with you...

1)SEEK LIFE ELSEWHERE... untill you come back with some proper training.
Knocking out a telephone pole and then post it here with some real attitude is damn right ridiculous. Do you think we are impressed?

2)repeat after me... I AM NOWHERE NEAR THE TITLE ARBORIST....IN FACT, I AM SOME 100.000 MILES AWAY FROM IT. People have flown to the moon and back at slower speeds then the speed you are selling BS over here.
For now, we are still trying to keep you alive and trying to get you to give up your ridiculous service you so damn well provide for the untrained eye.THERE ARE OTHER WAYS TO MAKE MONEY FOR YOU. If I ever encounter one single post of your wife over here at treeworld, I will make sure EVERY QUALIFIED ARB OVER HERE WILL ADVISE HER TO SLAP YOU IN THE HEAD WITH THOSE ICE-AXES OVER AND OVER AGAIN UNTILL YOU CAN'T TASTE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SHIT AND FRENCH FRIES FOR A MILLION YEARS.

3)TREEWORLD HAS A BULLSHIT RADAR... yes we have...instead of the usual annoying sound that rings when trolls apear, there are lights flashing with a higher amount of lumens of a god-damn thunderstorm when you post...

4)I AM A DISGRACE TO EVERY TREE ON THE PLANET.

5)I WILL GET MYSELF KILLED WITH THESE PRACTICES.

6)I HAVE LOST THE REPECT OF EVERY ARB IN THIS FORUM...

NOW THIS SECTION IS FOR EVERYONE WHO'S IN THE QUALIFIED SECTION...
do you see now that 50 posts is not enough?

Therrin · 5th April 2008, 02:39 AM

Quote:

Well, I bought that rope to do single rope climbing and rappels.

I have already done the math on what length is needed to be able to be lowered to the ground. I'm thinking of getting at least 100' of three strand rope (is that a good choice?) to secure my cable lifeline.

Even when using single rope climbing, it'd be nice for it to be three times as long as the height you plan to climb to. This allows enough length for you to be lowered manually out of a tree if you have an accident and get hung up near your Tie In Point.
And even if I'm climbing a single line, I prefer to rappel down a dual-line. I think it gives me more control.
Also, it gives you the variety of tackling something larger as you continue, without purchasing more gear for it. The longer it is the more options you've got.

There must be several good reasons that many of us are suggesting you start with a longer rope.

Ekka · 5th April 2008, 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Therrin

There must be several good reasons that many of us are suggesting you start with a longer rope.

Yes, this comes to mind.

Therrin · 5th April 2008, 03:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerial

I'm not going to pester him about it further, but I think I am due an apology on that one. Unless he is a forum God of some type and is above common decency.

Aerial

Aerial, I had cold feet about replying on this thread. Then I noticed it was cuz my shoes were wet. I won't pester you any further either, but...

Yeah, you could call him the Forum God, that's about right.

I'm pretty sure if someone came to the house that I built and lived in, let themself in, then proceeded to harass me and tell me just what my opinion meant to them, then peed on my shoes... I'd tell them to get the F**K off my property.

I may be a blue collar redneck, but I know a knob when I see one.

treevet · 5th April 2008, 04:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

so ya sort of grounded chute packa!

In other words, trolling hack, you're on a short leash......and it's got a
shock collar attached to it around ya neck.

Aerial · 5th April 2008, 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Therrin

... Yeah, you could call him the Forum God, that's about right.

I'm pretty sure if someone came to the house that I built and lived in, let themself in, then proceeded to harass me and tell me just what my opinion meant to them, then peed on my shoes... I'd tell them to get the F**K off my property...

I was hoping for a kinder, gentler God, but as you say, this is his house and he can run it as he sees fit.

Actually, I have found this to be an excellent site technically (great forum software), and it has some great videos with much expertise being demonstrated.

Until my unfortunate blunders with humor and hyperbole led to this somewhat over the top confrontation between myself and Ekka, things seemed to be doing well, I was learning a lot of valuable information

I am under no delusions that I was a "hero" that day, Jackass would be closer. I attempted a difficult take down on a dangerous tree without the proper gear or training. To even post that experience before a jury of Arborists was asking for a whipping, and I got one.

I'm well aware of just how LUCKY I was not to have killed someone and that sobering reality is what led me here. Not to seek attention with outrageous brags of being a "Hero". I was a heartbeat away from taking a life through not doing my due diligence about what I was up to. I can honestly say that I would have rather fallen from the tree than to have that happen.

If I had it to do over (do we get those in this, or any profession?) I would have brought in a bucket truck with a qualified tree man in it. But ONLY if we had somehow discovered the equally dangerous utility pole down the street from where we were working.

As it was though, I wouldn't change a thing. God works in mysterious ways and me giving up my pride and sharing this experience here is small price to pay for the fact that a very dangerous situation was uncovered and rectified by my actions, however ill advised they obviously were.

A perfect drop of that tree, done by the best of your profession, would not have uncovered the real danger lurking at the base of that pole. It was all for the best as it turned out.

I was sent a clear and strong signal about just how reckless and ignorant I was. As I looked down at that smoking and sparking pole from my vantage point, way closer to Heaven than I had any right to be. It didn't take long to "get it" I could have been looking at a child laying under it. I probably would have uncliped and jumped.

I didn't feel very heroic at that moment, nor do I now. I'm not going to get all wigged out here about God and my belief, or not, of any such entity. But I have to say, if there is a guiding hand that has influence in our lives he/she or it used me as a blunt force implement, a tool no more aware than a wedge or the hammer that drives it, to rain destruction down on a quiet little neighborhood in Pittsburgh. And then gave me a good bitch slapping in that instant, as I understood completely just how foolish I had been.

My happiness had nothing to do with getting paid on the spot, and offers for new work in the neighborhood. I was, and still am to a degree, giddy at just how LUCKY I was not to have to bare the weight of a wrongful death.

The lady wants us to come back and take down the third tree, I think I'll take that job to someone qualified and experienced, and try to barter that for some hands on learning. Running brush to the truck for a while would seem like a great way to make a fresh start.

I learned that approach from Sawsong, thank you Sir for that good example. And my apologies for that outback critter that shall not be named comment I directed at you.. They can climb trees if I understand Aussie fauna correctly. I don't believe Dingos do, young or old.

And Ekka, thank you for granting me this opportunity to post the above as an apology especially to Sawsong, and lame explanation of the means justifying the ends.

I'll just passively hang out here and only post if I have a specific question about proper gear and techniques. I won't mention my findings about the ice axe things, that appears to be a bit too controversial a technique.

The DB/SALA retracting cable is something that I believe could be really useful in treework, but then again what do I know? At $1380 it's probably a bit pricy for most, and the tried and true rope methods have obviously proven themselves over time saving many lives along the way.

I'm not saying you are idiots if you don't use one, although my unfortunate jest about "coming out of the woods" is what started this whole furor and I truly apologize for that.

Without discovery there is no advancement. I wonder what the guys who developed the techniques you all use with ropes would have thought about a chainsaw if they had seen one? (a bit of a trip to the future, as those knots and techniques were in use before the turn of the century, and I mean 1900, if not 1800),

You are doing good work here Ekka, and I hope that someday I can contribute something of value to this site and it's members.

Aerial

Ekka · 6th April 2008, 02:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerial

I hope that someday I can contribute something of value to this site and it's members.

Aerial

I'm sure you can, we all can, but you can see what our industry faces from all angles. Your contributions are welcome, even mistakes, questions or tips on how to paint a plastic surface (chainsaw cover etc).

Beware Expert Village Idiot Drew George Finn| Dangerous Felling Practices

Here's the cycle of knowledge.

1/ You dont know what you dont know.
2/ You now know what you dont know
3/ You now learn/experience what you dont know
4/ You now know your job

You blazed in here at level 1, now you're at level 2. Most of us are 4's here.

Here's an extremely valuable management tool for us all.

Situational Leadership model

Quote:

SITUATIONAL LEADERSHIP

You can see where this is going. Blanchard and Hersey said that the Leadership Style (S1 - S4) of the leader must correspond to the Development level (D1 - D4) of the follower - and it's the leader who adapts.

For example, a new person joins your team and you're asked to help them through the first few days. You sit them in front of a PC, show them a pile of invoices that need to be processed today, and push off to a meeting. They're at level D1, and you've adopted S4. Everyone loses because the new person feels helpless and demotivated, and you don't get the invoices processed.

On the other hand, you're handing over to an experienced colleague before you leave for a holiday. You've listed all the tasks that need to be done, and a set of instructions on how to carry out each one. They're at level D4, and you've adopted S1. The work will probably get done, but not the way you expected, and your colleague despises you for treating him like an idiot.

But swap the situations and things get better. Leave detailed instructions and a checklist for the new person, and they'll thank you for it. Give your colleague a quick chat and a few notes before you go on holiday, and everything will be fine.

By adopting the right style to suit the follower's development level, work gets done, relationships are built up, and most importantly, the follower's development level will rise to D4, to everyone's benefit.

Under this model you cannot come in here and lead us, debate us or call us unknowledgable or ignorant of other industries (many of us have other trades too), we need to lead you, and so part of that now is step by step posts ... up to you from here, there's other tree forums but I can tell you none are a patch on this place, some are run by porno peeking criminals with qualifications in thuggery.

Aerial · 6th April 2008, 05:31 AM

You were being very generous with giving me at #2 on your path to knowledge. My own assessment is there is still a lot of #1 (stuff I don't even know that I don't know) in my awareness.

But I have gained a bit of #3 just from reading this site. My goal will be to try to flush out the large list of #1 items and through understanding them, move them into the #2 category.

Again, my apologies to any I have rankled with my posting style. I'll avoid attempts at "humor" and use of hyperbole in the future, as that is what got this snowball turned into an avalanche of ill feelings.

Aerial

treevet · 6th April 2008, 06:07 AM

Great post Ekka, and an interesting (welcome if sincere) conversion to humility Aerial!

5th April 2008, 01:17 AM	#105 (permalink)
quercus Mature tree Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: belgium Posts: 428	Re: Revolutionary new gear for the arborist Hmmm I've been away from this thread because I didn't get the e-mail notifications of the new posts... Aerial... I'm gonna be straight forward with you... 1)SEEK LIFE ELSEWHERE... untill you come back with some proper training. Knocking out a telephone pole and then post it here with some real attitude is damn right ridiculous. Do you think we are impressed? 2)repeat after me... I AM NOWHERE NEAR THE TITLE ARBORIST....IN FACT, I AM SOME 100.000 MILES AWAY FROM IT. People have flown to the moon and back at slower speeds then the speed you are selling BS over here. For now, we are still trying to keep you alive and trying to get you to give up your ridiculous service you so damn well provide for the untrained eye.THERE ARE OTHER WAYS TO MAKE MONEY FOR YOU. If I ever encounter one single post of your wife over here at treeworld, I will make sure EVERY QUALIFIED ARB OVER HERE WILL ADVISE HER TO SLAP YOU IN THE HEAD WITH THOSE ICE-AXES OVER AND OVER AGAIN UNTILL YOU CAN'T TASTE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SHIT AND FRENCH FRIES FOR A MILLION YEARS. 3)TREEWORLD HAS A BULLSHIT RADAR... yes we have...instead of the usual annoying sound that rings when trolls apear, there are lights flashing with a higher amount of lumens of a god-damn thunderstorm when you post... 4)I AM A DISGRACE TO EVERY TREE ON THE PLANET. 5)I WILL GET MYSELF KILLED WITH THESE PRACTICES. 6)I HAVE LOST THE REPECT OF EVERY ARB IN THIS FORUM... NOW THIS SECTION IS FOR EVERYONE WHO'S IN THE QUALIFIED SECTION... do you see now that 50 posts is not enough?

6th April 2008, 05:31 AM	#112 (permalink)
Aerial Banned Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 230	Re: Revolutionary new gear for the arborist You were being very generous with giving me at #2 on your path to knowledge. My own assessment is there is still a lot of #1 (stuff I don't even know that I don't know) in my awareness. But I have gained a bit of #3 just from reading this site. My goal will be to try to flush out the large list of #1 items and through understanding them, move them into the #2 category. Again, my apologies to any I have rankled with my posting style. I'll avoid attempts at "humor" and use of hyperbole in the future, as that is what got this snowball turned into an avalanche of ill feelings. Aerial

6th April 2008, 06:07 AM	#113 (permalink)
treevet Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA Posts: 927	Re: Revolutionary new gear for the arborist Great post Ekka, and an interesting (welcome if sincere) conversion to humility Aerial!