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Old 3rd April 2008, 01:14 AM   #51 (permalink)
Fly'n
 
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Default Re: Revolutionary new gear for the arborist

Quote:
Originally Posted by playfordtree View Post
From your photos it looks like it could have been decked down the street not across it?... Have you got any better photos, taken from a distance.?... the blades on the axes look like they have done no work at all... Yet the handles look like they have been knocked around a bit?... What saws are you using?
A wider angle would have shown the street and the neighbors hedges, not in view in the shot I took. The police had already come by and told us not to drop the tree across the street. It seemed like halving it down was the only way to go under the circumstances. Look at the shots on page two, they may give a better perspective. The tree is just behind the one in the foreground (the shot with the pole in it).

The axes are well used, the blades may have been replaced (they bolt into the forged head) but I suspect not. They are high quality steel and extremely tough. I don't think they could be damaged, or even wear much, in their intended use. (ice).

They have heavy serrations on them and look to be good even as a hook without penetration. Once set into the tree it is trivial for each one of them to hold my full weight. Also they are set into the tree at just above eye level, so a visual inspection of the placement and penetration is much easier than with the gaffs.

The butt of the handles even have spikes that are designed to dig in when the butt is in contact with the ice wall. I will set them in this manner and load test them out of my own curiosity. Of course I will share these results as they come in.

As for saws, I had two 14" Poulan's new but semi-crappy and one 12" top handle saw, old and really crappy. I ended up using one of the Poulans mostly.

And I have had a lot of cutting experience with saws over my 60 years. I know how dangerous they are, multiplied of course, when up a tree with you.

Aerial

Last edited by Aerial : 3rd April 2008 at 01:32 AM. Reason: other photo reference
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Old 3rd April 2008, 01:27 AM   #52 (permalink)
Fly'n
 
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Default Re: Revolutionary new gear for the arborist

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ekka View Post
Some really good pics, crystal clear there Aerial.

Yes, take cell phone video, up close with largest pixel setting. Any troubles editing etc let me know, love to see it...
As well they should be, shot with a Nikon D100 and $900 lens. The camera in my phone is actually surprisingly good for a phone. Should work out OK for web video. If can only find a person who can hold it steady and pan smoothly.

Film at 11:00... lol I should explain, it's an American slang for anything that might bring out a TV film crew - usually not good news.

Aerial
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Old 3rd April 2008, 02:05 AM   #53 (permalink)
Fly'n
 
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Default Re: Revolutionary new gear for the arborist

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Originally Posted by Ekka View Post
... That device you hang up the tree gives you what mechanical advantage? You cant climb that cable, you cant pull yourself up that cable, you cant lean on it to position well for a cut coz it releases slowly....
The mechanical advantage I was referring to was the axes. The cable's only mechanical advantage is in it's great strength. It's quite passive in normal operation, it plays out and takes up slack as you move about. It doesn't tangle or get in the way at all. It keeps a constant positive, yet gentle, upward pull. I attach it to a Miller full body safety harness with the D ring between my shoulder blades, completely independent of my Miller climbing belt. When on the ground make sure to attach it to something so as not to lose the cable up the tree (I used my chainsaw). It has 39 feet of 3/16 Stainless Steel cable to play out and acts as a soft stop of sorts. (It locked up tight pretty fast and hard in my testing).

Quote:
You in America will definately have some [regulations] and you are violating them in a major way, this is a job as well as an adventure, dont become a "stat" that induces more regs on us!
Oh yes, we in America have the best legal system money can buy. lol

From the operating manual:

"The DB/SALA SP150 Self Retracting Lifeline (SRL) meets or exceeds all National Standards, including ANSI Z359.1 and all applicable local, State, and Federal (OSHA) requirements governing this equipment."

I have a friend in the Ironworkers Union who has used these things for years on high steel erection projects. It was he who directed me to this great piece of gear.

You guys need to get out of the woods more!

Aerial

Last edited by Aerial : 3rd April 2008 at 02:13 AM. Reason: added cable length & comments on soft stop capabilities
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Old 3rd April 2008, 02:24 AM   #54 (permalink)
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Default Re: My Day Job Calls ...

Right now I have a courier delivery to make to West Virginia (a neighboring State). Got to have a "mission critical" computer part in the hands of a technition not one minute later than 08:00 this morning.

It's a milk run and I'll be back in three hours ...

Keep the comments coming, they are invaluable to me. Constructive criticism is also welcomed, have a go at me, you won't hurt my feelings.

Aerial

Last edited by Aerial : 3rd April 2008 at 02:33 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old 3rd April 2008, 02:46 AM   #55 (permalink)
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Default Re: Revolutionary new gear for the arborist

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerial View Post
The police had already come by and told us not to drop the tree across the street.
Unusual for the Police to stop and tell you how to do your job??
It doesn't look like an overly busy street.
How did they know what you were doing?
What sort of traffic management/signage did you have in place for pedestrians/vehicles?
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Old 3rd April 2008, 02:48 AM   #56 (permalink)
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Default Re: Revolutionary new gear for the arborist

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerial View Post
From the operating manual:

"The DB/SALA SP150 Self Retracting Lifeline (SRL) meets or exceeds all National Standards, including ANSI Z359.1 and all applicable local, State, and Federal (OSHA) requirements governing this equipment."

I have a friend in the Ironworkers Union who has used these things for years on high steel erection projects. It was he who directed me to this great piece of gear.

You guys need to get out of the woods more!

Aerial
Sorry to crack your cocky cookie but you now have to live by ANSI Z133.1-2006 Tree Care Safety Standard

So perhaps you need to wake up and smell the roses!
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Old 3rd April 2008, 06:16 AM   #57 (permalink)
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Default Re: Anything you say can, and will, be used against you ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ekka View Post
Sorry to crack your cocky cookie but you now have to live by ANSI Z133.1-2006 Tree Care Safety Standard

So perhaps you need to wake up and smell the roses!
Hey I did use a smiley!

Touche and well played Sir!

Is there a pdf of that somewhere? I do need to get up to speed and in-compliance instead of in-competence.

Aerial
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Old 3rd April 2008, 06:30 AM   #58 (permalink)
Fly'n
 
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Default Re: Honest Officer, that telephone pole fell on it's own ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by playfordtree View Post
Unusual for the Police to stop and tell you how to do your job??
It doesn't look like an overly busy street.
How did they know what you were doing?
What sort of traffic management/signage did you have in place for pedestrians/vehicles?
Well the cops in that rather upscale neighborhood were nervous about us, because we took out a rather major telephone pole only two days before, when I dropped the first tree.

We had cones blocking the sidewalk, and blocked the street in the working areas with our trucks and trailer. Plus two other men besides myself as crew.

For the first drop we had two police cars, two fire engines, and later six electric company trucks to do crowd control for the neighborhood who turned out to see us finish the job after their power was restored.

Now I was going to save the whole true retelling of the events of that day for a separate thread, but since you asked ...

Aerial

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Last edited by Aerial : 3rd April 2008 at 06:58 AM. Reason: to protect the innocent and guilty alike ...
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Old 3rd April 2008, 07:55 AM   #59 (permalink)
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Default Re: Revolutionary new gear for the arborist

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerial View Post
That may seem, over the top to traditional "Old School" climbers, but don't knock it until you've tried it fellows. It's a great piece of kit, and I don't think I'd have had the courage to do the limb walk on the first tree without it.

Aerial
A tautline hitch is every bit as safe if not safer than the retracting life line,it has been proven by thousands of climbers,as far as i know it was the first friction hitch and i still use it on removals where i only set my highline once.You should start off with that and then move on to something like a distel.You took out a telephone pole?Was it rigged or just cut off?
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Old 3rd April 2008, 08:16 AM   #60 (permalink)
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Default Re: Revolutionary new gear for the arborist

it looks like it was smashed off at ground level by something rather heavy, perhaps a falling tree

oh my word
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Old 3rd April 2008, 08:49 AM   #61 (permalink)
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Default It happened like this your honors ...

When I sized up this job, I was well aware of the anchor pole shown in the prior photographs. This pole held a guy wire (insulated, no current) with a cable running down and across the street to another, much larger active power pole, (that's the one laying in the street). This pole was not even on our street, it was 70 ~ 80 meters away from us.

The tree leans well out over this support cable, (already gone in the other photos) so as you can see, and I'm sure your collective experience shows as well, that this was going to be a problem, for me a very large one. I did in fact have a plan for this, just not for the way it went down.

The plan was to ascend to the top of the tree to position the SRL (Self Retracting Lifeline) where you can see it in the picture. After what I sure you all would consider a foolhardy and dangerous free climb to get there, I snapped in To the SRL and felt much better. It was a scary climb, what with heavy old lineman's pole spikes and limp flipline.

On the way up I dropped the easy limbs and once up there with the SRL attached, I began to cut the top limbs out in sections. They all went down without a problem of hitting the support cable.

I should do a Photoshop of the image to put in diagrams so you will know exactly where I am talking about, but I'll try to describe what happened next to the best of my ability. Here's the photo:




After cutting everything that you see cut, except less than a meter length off the limb to the left of the one the SRL is crotched to (the branch @ 45 degrees in the photo), I made what seemed a routine cut of a relatively short piece of the formerly over-reaching limb. (Picking it up after, it couldn't have weighed more than 10 kilos, pretty much dried out dead wood).

Now the projected trajectory was well clear of the support wire and pole, having dropped the much longer branch it supported, cleanly clear of the cable just before it was cut. Not factored in was the glancing blow that the log took from the limb under it.

The thing ricocheted off the branch below and cartwheeled through the air and struck the support pole like a pile driver leaving the top splintered and the cable vibrating. The utility pole at the end of the street must have quivered once and snapped of at the base. It fell away from us and across the next street.

I didn't see any of this, as I was on the tree with my back to the support pole and as it short piece I cut off dropped I was more concerned with hanging on than looking around. It happened fast, though. I hear the power pole go down, even over the rattle of the chainsaw.

By the time I looked, it was smoking and sparking, laying as you see it in the street. Thank God no one was driving through the intersection just then. I know you all can flay me at will over the whole process, and rightly so, but I will be introducing evidence that while not exculpatory, may be at least be mitigating over the occurrence of that pole's collapse into the street.

This is a very long post, so I will introduce said evidence after the public flogging which is sure to ensue...

Aerial
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Last edited by Aerial : 3rd April 2008 at 09:15 AM. Reason: spelling, punctuation, readability, & stuff ...
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Old 3rd April 2008, 09:16 AM   #62 (permalink)
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Default Re: Revolutionary new gear for the arborist

Don't you know how to rig?if said limb was lowred it might not have took out the pole.This is why training and knowledge of trees and how to use the proper cuts is so important.
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Old 3rd April 2008, 09:39 AM   #63 (permalink)
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Default Re: Revolutionary new way of killing people

revolutionary new way of killing people more like!

just... wow.

i think we'd better see the rest of the photos for these mitigating circumstances sooner rather than later to be honest.

i cant help but think, if you regard ME as the more experienced of the two of us, what are you doing attempting takedowns?

yes! thank god there was nobody in the road, but how many times before there will be!?

i can think of an american site where you would get drawn over hot coals for that. I'm more interested in trying to stop you hurting yourself or others

ive now come around to the thinking that the guy on youtube felling a tree in his yard with a skil saw and an extension cord as a bull rope was more careful.

not being funny, and i am more than prepared to be proven wrong, but a 10 kilo chunk of wood could never do that, surely!

i stand firmly in a glass house here because I know i'll make mistakes, im trained to fell trees, and im learning to climb trees, but ne'er the twain shall meet until ive been judged competant by a professional peer. Life is too precious. If i cock up and hurt myself, chalk up one more. if i hurt (i dont even want to think about worse) someone else through my negligence, i would never forgive myself.

im sorry, thats just how i feel

be safe one and all

jim
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Old 3rd April 2008, 09:55 AM   #64 (permalink)
Fly'n
 
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Default If you insist, the defense presents it's case ..

Quote:
Originally Posted by sawsong View Post
...i think we'd better see the rest of the photos for these mitigating circumstances sooner rather than later to be honest...
Exhibit A: The base of the pole:



Exhibit B: A section of the support cable:



Aerial
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File Type: jpg aerial_post2-1.jpg (151.8 KB, 15 views)
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Old 3rd April 2008, 09:59 AM   #