Mini Skid | Tracks or Tyres???

Therrin

Damn, I think I killed this thread.

TrevMcRev

No way Therrin!

I do reckon tracks are cool as

Apocalypsse

We had a dingo on site the other day, flat tyre... No flats with tracks. Also went through about 2 tanks of fuel for about 4-6ish hours work. This was the unleaded version.

stirmantrees

tires.
the tracks distribute weight better, so things like septic tanks, drain fields, utilities fair better(usually). stability is probably a touch better, but i know of many jobs that i saw a track machine shred it up on the turns.
over hear you can buy a bobcat that will actually switch to all tire steering by the press of the button. bobcat a300 i think. it will cost an arm an a leg though. very nice on lawns.

Eric Frei

Those Dingo tyres do suck.

I have had one flat in 5 years, tyres are waterfilled for extra weight, I carry a spare tube in a bag in the ute so if we do get a flat the nearest tyre joint can repair in a jiffy.... however, even with a flat the machine operated OK.

You can also get puncture proof tyres where they fill them with expanding rubber stuff, good option but around $100 per wheel.

I like tyres, no rain here again for like 3 weeks now and like I said, El Nino coming (as usual), drought and dry is Australias future. I like tyres because so much running around is so straight forward, rocks dont matter a whole lot either. Just my experience up here.

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SchafferLoaders

Hi Guys,

I know this is an old thread but thought I could add my two cents to it.

I don't personally sell tracked machines, but have had them at field days on our site and a few of our customers own them.

Some customers (generally in earthmoving) complain that the tracks carry a lot of dirt out on the road and it gradually falls out. Also operating costs are significantly higher. The undercarriage of a bulldozer adds up to around 80% of the maintenance costs and altough a tracked skid steer isn't quite a bulldozer you still get the increase in operating costs. Some say add an extra $20 per hour to cover tracks, but thats pretty dependent on type of machine.

At field days I've seen grass ripped up just moving tracked skid steers for final positioning to make them look nice, this isn't even operating them on a job. On the other hand a potential customer was demoing another customers machine a few weeks ago with a Schaffer Loader 2336 (36hp) operating weight 2250kg and he had water in the tyres so another 280kg. This customer did full turn locks on his lawn (I was a bit shocked as I don't really want anyones lawn ripped up at all, but he just started doing it), which isn't buffalo or anything tough and didn't scratch it all all. You might say that he didn't have a load on and its a fair point, but he was on FULL LOCK and if you want to go gently on someones lawn then that isn't the way, you go half turn.

In Australia we do on purpose take nice tyres which further helps low impact. The small range has a 12" of tread on the ground and the bigger range around 15" of tread on the ground which helps spread the weight. Skid steers generally have narrow tyres which digs up the ground further.

I think articulated loaders being a passive driving system are the best on lawns. We have many councils now doing green waste verge pick ups and the loader spends its whole life on lawns. These councils used to use skid steers but the down time going back to repair customers lawns was excessive. The drivers also prefer the superior visibiliy from the articulated loader and the much better ground clearance and long wheel base for going up and down curbs.

I could go on and on....so better stop here.
Really I think just about every machine has a purpose.
Tracked loaders generally have amazing pushing power and are great in the snow, just the maintenance costs sky rocket when they are in rocky and other conditions.
If there's any tough questions send them though (not too tough though!).

cheers,

Cameron

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Eric Frei

On my Kanga I wore out (bald and throught to tube) a set of tyres in 700 hours, I work 50% lawns and 50% concrete/bitumin. The problem is most of the swivelling action to shove stuff into the chipper chute happens on crete or bitumin wrecking tyres.

The new set is wearing faster as I do more chipping these days.

New set of tyres, water filled with tubes total cost was around $600 fitted.

You can also go the puncture proof rubberized inner where no air or tube is inside.

I have no idea what tracks cost or how well they'd wear doing what I do on tyres (or what they'd do to the surface I'm spinning on)

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SchafferLoaders

Hi Ekka,

Some good points you have raised with you own stand on mini skid steer. That is just a light weight machine skidding to turn (and you would be careful being an owner operator). Tyre wear only gets worse when you turn a heavier skid steer, I know of one council that said they got 110 hours out of one tyre but that's probably just operator abuse.

I know some brands of tracks have a 1,000 hour guarantee, but its actually only pro rata after 700 hours. Track lugs can snap off, leaving you with a track with some tread but can't be used. With purpose built tracks you have a mulitude of rollers to also add into your maintenance costs - you don't have these issues with a tyred machine, but each to their own.

Another big point about tracked machines is that they use far more diesel than a wheeled machine, adding to operating costs. This is all down to the rolling resistance of tracks, a bit like driving down to the shops to buy the milk in a bulldozer. Wheeled machines are generally much faster and get to their top speed much quicker. On the other hand if you are operating in snow or deep mud - the tracked skid steer will get you through!

On the plus side, some of the bigger tracked skid steers really do push for earth moving, or mudwork (our bucket builders make a heavy duty back for large tracked skid steers as they really can push compared to wheeled skid steers), but you have to wear the maintence costs somehow which can be hard when your competitor is running something else with far lower maintenance costs.

Can you tell me what size tyres you run and ply rating?
I'm just interested in pricing.
Funny thing about some tyres is the more common the size the cheaper they are - we use 26x12x12 on the smallest loader and they are everywhere so cheap but give you a lot of traction with 12" of contact with the ground. The best 12" have a 12 ply rating so take a long time to wear out.

The first and second videos in this run 26x12-12 SKD tyres, 12 ply, they have about an 1" of tread on them and when they go on an articulated loader, they really last.
Video


Cheers,

Cam

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Cole

I disagree with that said, actually most of it machines with tyres have half the stabily of my posi, and i further disagree with the mantence costs, my family owns 10+ tracked machines and i dont know where you got that from,our s330 bobcat takes more maintence than the posi, tyres are far less superior than track you have about 1/10 of the tyres on the dirt at any one time than the tracks, long wheels base which makes them hard to take down in small ditches because the back end bottms out or the bucket hits the bottom of the ditch or the top, if your using a tyre machine in demanding situations you are more ceceptible to damage rims brakes,

i can assure you that our bobcat s330 doesnt come with thin tyres, i would like to see a loader on a construction site against either the bobcat or posi, i just dont think they would handle the same as them

SchafferLoaders

Hi Cole,

I definitely agree with what you are saying about wheeled skid steers having much less stability than your tracked ones, its all comes down to the short wheel base and not much wheel contact on the ground, particularly as the weight shifts to the front axles when you pick up a load.

Its impressive you have 10 tracked machines in your family, you guys must do some serious work! I can understand riding over the rough stuff as well, tracks can have good floatation.

I just looked up the spec's of the S330 (tried to), I'm not sure if I got exactly the right model? It seems to have 12x16.5" tyres - 12" wide tyres, but there is an option for 15" wide - maybe you have these?
Schaffer just use 15" wide tyres in this size range.
Interesting that the engine is exactly the same as in the Schaffer 5390Z - Kubota V3300 turbo, I think its a nice engine, we find the Kubota's are pretty much bullet proof. The new ones even have 400 hour service intervals which is also nice.

Is the S330 the one that can be altered to "all wheel steer" as well? That's sort of a nice feature, but I think it still suffers from a short wheel base, like you are saying your tracked skid steers have more maintenance.

We have quite a few customers on construction sites, like these guys



Have a great weekend Cole and thanks for the chat!
It's cooled down to low 30's in WA this weekend, last weekend was around the 40 degree mark - too much! Hopefully Canberra will be bringing on some good weather as well.

cheers,

Cam

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Cole

no ours doesnt have the all wheel steer, the s330 has better features than the posi, like the coded start and alarm, has the 12" tyres, we mainly use the 330 for on road use, mailly because of speed, what do you mean suffers from short wheel base, excavators do most of our loading lifting however lifting concrete pipes and pits with it isnt a problem. the service costs on the two are hard to match as the posi does the more demanding work. however when buying tracks you get what you pay for, and the posi is far more user friendly

SchafferLoaders

Hi Cole,
Thanks for the info, always good to hear some more, you definitely do the right thing - use each machine more for what its designed for.
The posi usually has pretty good speed - is it just because the tyres get up to speed faster that you use the bobcat?
I can understand the posi being more user friendly, the suspension system is nice, its part of the reason the loaders are nice to drive, they have an oscillating articualtion joint or oscillating rear axle acting like suspension.
Taking about wheel bases - if you look at these two pictures you can see how much weight is out the back of the Schaffer and the axles are spread much further apart front to back - this has to give a better lift capacity than a short wheel based skid steer. Obviously there are trade offs for both systems however!





cheers,
Cam

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Cole

a good operator on a wheeled machine does alot less damage to the tyres on the road and the way you operate the wheeled machine is more user friendly than the posi both machines have two gears the posi changes gears on the go you just press a button....LOL as if you were firing a missle, and wack you can really feel its torque when you do that where i come from our tracked machines never see on road use or very very rare, we have a komatsu 14t rubber tracked that we use on cement bitumen etc