Kanga Kid

Treefella

Hi guys - my first post but I've read quite a few!

I'm trying to find out just how good the Kid is before I deplete my funds further and since the majority of you live in the land of its birth I'm hoping someone will have used one or seen one in action. They seem to be disappearing from hire centres in the UK which is not normally a good sign.

I'm particularly interested in its performance with the 4 in 1 bucket. I don't need one to rip stumps out (I can grind 'em ) but will the tracked version doze into a pile of crushed stone for instance and transport the load nimbly over kerbs/roughish muddy ground? If it won't doze then is the jaw action good enough to grab the stone? Will it dig by planing soil or is that asking too much of a little machine. I'd love a bigger one but even the Kid is too wide for many rear accesses.

The hire centres mostly have the wheeled version but apparently the tracked version outsells the wheeled version by quite a margin so in theory it's better and maybe that's why the hirers are phasing them out. Any info greatly received on the machine and attachments - I don't want to waste time demo-ing something if it's not going to work for me.

Eric Frei

Isn't that the wee little Kanga 820mm wide?

Forget it, it's a toy. Get the bigger brothers of it etc.

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Treefella

Thanks Ekka, that's the one - I thought as the Kanga fan you'd know of it, but you're obviously not a Kid fan! I can see from the specs they're weedy compared with a bigger machine. One thing in their favour besides the narrower width is that they turn up at the job and don't moan unlike many casual labourers.

Eric Frei

Aye aye, it's never as good a day when there's no Kanga access.

I have a tape measure on me when quoting, if my Kanga cant get in somewhere and is required then the job starts appearing "not so nice".

You become good at removing gates, fences and asking neighbours to get access, especially when Kanga'ing logs up hills!

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WJJMLG

hey treefella i have one of those kanga kids on trax, and let me say i would not trade it for anything!! yea yea yea it is on the small side, but i have a yanmar v45 wheel loader, and the kanga is with me every day the yanmar is just to big for those tight jobs. the other tree guys know what i have now and they send me work that they don't want to touch. get it and you won't be sorry!!!!!! it will never call in sick for work! it will never be late! it will NEVER be drunk for work!!!!! good luck

soutz

The best thing you will ever do for your back is buy a mini loader. All of us have our favs for our own reasons. Ekka loves a kanga, I love my dingo- but one things for sure they will be the best worker you have ever had. They also lead to more work if your that way inclined and over the last year the ability to take on different types of work has been a god send.Oh and they wont take your beer at the end of a hard day.

SchafferLoaders

Hey Treefella,

Did you end up buying a Kanga kid?
Give it a good test in some mud if that's what you work in.

cheers,

Cameron

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Cole

whats a good mini loader, been looking at the boxer brand of mini loaders our posi-track ASV doesnt fit through tight access, generally have to pull a peice of fence out,

Therrin

Oh I just realized you're in Canberra.

I had noticed that on Boxer's website they've got a seperate section with slightly used models of boxer, kanga, Mertz, Ventrac and others.

Boxer Pre-owned / Demo Equipment / Close Out Specials

TrevMcRev

Hey Cole, I've researched the chit outta mini loaders, and while i kinda like the boxers, and am pretty sure i'd buy their 536 with retractable tracks IF i were in the US. But in Oz they dont seem to have very good support or a real dealership network. I have heard some stories about real difficulties in getting some parts & service for them and being stuck out of service for long periods.

I've just put down on a Toro 427 Narrow Track (856mm wide). For my application it was the best machine and i looked into everything.
Then you just need one of these grapples to really make it earn its keep.

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Therrin

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Cole

whats a rough price on them trev, they look good and id definetly go with tracks id never go back to a wheeled machine, tracked machines nowdays generally have pilot control, one joystick for movement and the other controls the bucket no foot controls like in most other skidsteer loaders, alot smoother and they handle heavy loads over the front end better and dont start to do endo's like wheeled machines do when you try to turn the machine. yeah the boxers looks good man so many attachments, whats your thought on the toro trev look tough or what

SchafferLoaders

Hi Cole,

What width is your posi track?
I have to agree with Trev about the BMA Grapple. Dave rave's about his.


cheers,

Cameron

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Cole

1.75

SchafferLoaders

Hi Cole,

Can you tell me what width you want to stay under?
I might at least be able to give you another option to consider?

The only possible solutions I can provide are articulated wheeled loaders however. In regards to stability, the Schaffer range has a massive amount of weight out the back of the rear axle and really low centre of gravity to give great stability. The smaller models in particular really have an unmatched lift capacity for their size as we take a slightly shorter mast in Australia and when combined with all the weight out the back their pick up capacity is massive.
The 3150 as my avatar is 1400mm wide, but we go down to a standard width of 1250mm and custom widths of 890mm but really that's just for occasionally going down the side of a house, it really affects stability. These loaders aren't like a mini stand one - they are fast and have a big capacity for their size and are built like little tanks, coming in at 1500kg with no bucket. The articulation angle runs from 60 degrees to 47 degrees so the turning circle, although no skidding on the spot is close to it.

As far as controls go, you don't get any simpler. If you can drive a car, you can drive a Schaffer. They just have a steering wheel and all other controls on the joystick - foward/reverse on a switch and 4-in-1 controls built into the joystick. Accelerator is the same as a car and brakes as well. Visibility is superb as you aren't sitting down in a box.

I think every machine probably has a place in the market depending on what the job is on the day, but you can't have a whole fleet, so versatility is the key!
I'm guessing you have an RC100? They really do have a lot of hp and grunt!

This video shows the smallest one in action with some tree loppers, it was meant to be a 100% tree clip but my mate got a bit carried away.
http://www.youtube.com/user/schafferloaders#p/u/1/pIy4RqntPok
cheers,

Cam

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Cole

nice loaders nice video, how big is that bucket haha she didnt like it when you had it up high, you guys have got some seriousunder a meter for sure, but i fear these machines are too small for us,wo gear there,wow they are certainly light, considering the posi comes in at 4.6 ton, we have a DP power chip in the posi brings it up from its normal 100hp with 412 nm makes it much easier to operate i found that i thick dirt or what ever to do a 360 on the spot took alot of torque so the increased power/torque helps with it, it only goes around 12mph, how big is the turning circle on ur and what is the lift capacity of the 3150 does it have telescopic 4-1 bucket

Apocalypsse

When I was perusing the local Stihl/Honda/Toro dealer I asked and he said the diesel model came in at a whopping $38ish,000. Looks pretty good but sitting down is even better.

SchafferLoaders

Hi Cole,
Thanks for the reply.
You are right - the smallest Schaffer comes in at just 1500kg, the biggest is the 9300Z at 110hp or 130hp with a variable displacement highflow for running mulchers and cold planers, it comes in around the 6 tonne market.

The specs on the 3150 are: Mini Loader 3150
Turning circle inner arc 1140mm
Turning cicle outer bucket arc 2475mm
Operating weight with GP 2750kg, but I always recommend water so +340kg and 4-in-1 +120kg, so all up you are looking at around 3210kg
German brochure Schaffer-FrontEndLoaders-2022-3150-4050-5070.pdf

This short video shows a heap of versatility in 23 seconds!
It is a 3150 in the clip
http://www.youtube.com/user/schafferloaders#p/u/0/n5YvKfchCRQ
Something a little bigger, which might also be your size is the 5050Z
This is a 5050Z, operating weight around 3.8 tonnes and water in tyres +340kg, it is working in NSW pushing down tea trees. http://www.youtube.com/user/schafferloaders#p/u/3/B7PuZ5wDLaI
One nice thing about the Schaffers - all the masts are built out of 30mm plate, they are truly built to last. Box sections if treated roughly can be jigged out of square but if you are running minimum 50mm pins and 30mm plate, its going to be around a long time.

We have also just introduced a 1300mm wide 2336, two are going out to tree guys this week - one in Brisbane and the other in Perth.

Its interesting that you needed more than the standard 100hp to turn on the spot, I guess it takes a lot of tractive force, just like a bulldozer to turn a 4.6 tonne machine? A customer of ours has a RC80, Schaffer 3150 and Schaffer 5050Z, I can tell you what everyone now drives but he does do different work to you.

I did this lift once, really a bit over the capacity of the machine, but a bit of fun. To tell you the truth I couldn't get it over around 400mm off the ground, if I had water I could have done it - it was a big log - there are equal amounts either side! Just a side note - I don't condone lifting over the SWL!


Regarding the telescopic - do you mean a telescopic mast? Schaffer do a range of articulated telehandlers, we bring in from the 70hp size, but they aren't quite as compact. This video is the smallest one with a intermercato Intermercato AB tree grapple, we aren't bringing the smallest articulated telehandler into Australia.
http://www.youtube.com/user/schafferloaders#p/u/7/2KIGvTay2zc
Any more discussion would be great, I might be a little slow answering, I don't have a computer away from the office.

cheers,

Cam

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Cole

nice machine the bigger one that is, gives those tea trees a push, , how about cabin's for the driver can u get them enclosed for operater saftey, and air con etc i wouldnt like to be pushing trees over without a cabin ive had heaps come back onto the machine plus there dusty as when earth moving or driving in dusty/wet conditions. what do you mean by u recommend water ? it didnt really need the extra hp to 360 if it makes a difference in demanding situations,

TrevMcRev

Hey Cole (& gday Cameron!)

I'd love to go the schaffer, if i could work with the width, they would be my first choice. The artic. loaders reallly are the best for low ground disturbance.

For me i want to get in everywhere, we are usually in the inner 'burbs so i didnt want to buy a machine that i cant use as much as possible.

If your typical jobs allow the access for an artic. loader, go for it.

Down the track i may want to get something BIGGER as well as the mini...

But if you've already got a beast of loader then the small one needs to small enough to get used.

The toros are about $30k for the 27hp kohler petrol or $35k with the 25hp kabota diesel, thats inc a 4in1 bucket worth $3800+

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TOR3536J_TraxMaster_04_single-pp[3].pdf (767.2 KB, 46 views)

SchafferLoaders

Hi Dave and gday Trev!,


The Schaffer Loaders come with airconditioned cabins from around the 3150 up. Most people in Australia seem to take hardtops, apart from councils, but it really just depends on how much you are going to be in the cabin I guess - although I have to agree cabins can be nice! It is possible to have just a windscreen as well fitted to the hardtop.
I know you have had trees come through your cabin in the posi, but with the loader set up, your mast is mounted on the front chassis, so you don't get so much dust or rubbish coming back on you. You also sit a bit higher with less metal work and engine directly around you so it is cooler. I think this is part of why less cabins are sold, particularly in the smaller articulated loaders.
You would laugh if you saw me in a skid steer, I usually drop all the material on my feet - you can't do that in a loader.
A lot of drivers tell me they like loading trucks now as their face isn't planted against the side of the truck when they load, like in a skid steer.


Sorry, with that water comment I just meant filling the tyres 2/3 with water - it really adds to lift capacity and increases stability as the weight is so low. We have a lot of customers who don't use water in the tyres, but also a lot that do. The bigger loaders generally have 14ply tyres as standard so they are pretty puncture resistant, solid fill is always an option but really jumps the price up. On a side note we might use aircraft casings for the 9300Z aircraft mulcher model they have loading of 20 tonnes per tyre at 235 miles per hour, coming in from Holland.

This is a 90hp telehandler and its all built on an earthmoving platform, the same as the articulated loaders so will at least give you an idea of the cabin. Its built on the same chassis as the 5390Z loader.
http://www.youtube.com/user/schaefferlader#p/a/u/1/knEo2kVtul8This second half of this video shows Cleanaway with a older model Schaffer, skid steers used to be used for this job but now the councils are going for articulated loaders


Nice video of that posi with the mulcher on it, I can't wait to get some 9300Z high flow doing the same thing, they will be purpose built for high flow. Also with a machine like that the tipping load is over 3 tonnes so pretty handy as a forklift or for bucket work.

Attached here is also a brochure of the big end and shows the cabins - the new Silence Comfort View cabins are really spacious, they actually haven't arrived into Australia yet, the next orders they will come. Schaffer9330Z-highflowMulcher.pdf


The 9300Z high flow is set up to run mulchers like the positrack RC100, but comes with a load sensing pump, purpose built hydraulic cooling pack, 150 litres a minute at 250 bar with 130hp driving it Schaffer9330Z-highflowMulcher.pdf Wheel Loader 9330 Z HIGH FLOW

cheers,

Cameron

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SchafferBrochureWheelLoader5058Z-5390Z-9300Z.pdf (954.9 KB, 20 views)

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Cole

[QUOTE=SchafferLoaders;79616]Hi Dave and gday Trev!,


The Schaffer Loaders come with airconditioned cabins from around the 3150 up. Most people in Australia seem to take hardtops, apart from councils, but it really just depends on how much you are going to be in the cabin I guess - although I have to agree cabins can be nice! It is possible to have just a windscreen as well fitted to the hardtop.
I know you have had trees come through your cabin in the posi, but with the loader set up, your mast is mounted on the front chassis, so you don't get so much dust or rubbish coming back on you. You also sit a bit higher with less metal work and engine directly around you so it is cooler. I think this is part of why less cabins are sold, particularly in the smaller articulated loaders.
You would laugh if you saw me in a skid steer, I usually drop all the material on my feet - you can't do that in a loader.
A lot of drivers tell me they like loading trucks now as their face isn't planted against the side of the truck when they load, like in a skid steer.


Sorry, with that water comment I just meant filling the tyres 2/3 with water - it really adds to lift capacity and increases stability as the weight is so low. We have a lot of customers who don't use water in the tyres, but also a lot that do. The bigger loaders generally have 14ply tyres as standard so they are pretty puncture resistant, solid fill is always an option but really jumps the price up.

yeah thats a nice machine hey the 9300,much larger than the posi though, full credit to you guys really nice gear, do those cabins come with ROPS roll over protection system, think id still prefer to be in the posi when using the mulcher , mmmm i tend do disagree with the load being out the front so that wont give you much dust or what ever,ive used an avanti and open machines are a prick if your using them all day, and you get shit all over you depends on the wind and job i suppose, the driver is so exposed on them though and sittin up high, in the posi you are down lower with much more protection, and with a better centre of gravity i would think.

haha i would laugh if i saw you drop the load on your feet bit of a rookie in them are you,being 5.4 meters how do they go passing through ditches with the over hang at the rear and the mast out the front, and being taller and articulated, hoe does this go in rocky muddy terrain, the articulated rams in the middle are exposed a tad so are the front rams on the bucket,

SchafferLoaders

[quote=Cole;79632]Hi Cole,

Thanks for the credit, I wouldn't in involved in bringing in any rubbish - too much trouble. Schaffer has been involved with loaders for just over 50 years now and their engineering is know to be superb for a reason.

The smaller Schaffer's come with fold down ROPS and the larger ones ROPS with FOPS as well as standard.

With the avanti you sit on the front chassis section, so are really exposed to the dust in your face, but you are right if the wind is blowing towards you and you are dumping out light or dry materials you really need a windscreen or a full cabin!
I'm definitely a rookie in a skid steer, better in a loader - that's me in this video http://www.youtube.com/user/schafferloaders#p/u/4/0ZbqL3TkqDk. If you check that video at 1 minute 38 seconds I go over a ripple track we made up from sleepers. This is a compact machine - just 26hp, I don't of any other wheeled 26hp mini loader that could go over it so easily and really its due to the oscillating articulation joint. The rider is also not shaken about compared to a rigid articulation joint. I guess I'm trying to show if this one can handle this, then the big loaders can handle much rougher terrain.
If you get a true operator in there however it makes me look bad - its just lucky they are so easy to drive.

Going through ditches is pretty good, but I guess there is always a compromise, the large overhang out the back gives a massive advantage lowering the centre of gravity and giving best lift capacity for its size, but the disadvantage is like you say the rear can rub on the ground (it is a solid 50mm plate underneath the rear).

From 5,000 series up there is rear axle oscillation so you keep your wheels on the ground in rough terrain, and from 3,000 series down you have an oscillating articulation joint so wheels are kept on the ground going over curbs, this helps maintain traction in the rough stuff.

For forestry applications we will have more guarding. The mast rams are massive, we have never had a 5000 series up bent before. I think they are held in by 80mm pins, much bigger than anything else on the market.
I guess the main reason to consider the 9300Z high flow for mulching is that it has 130hp available and truly built for this application so handles the heat well with a high capacity oil filtration and purpose built hydraulic cooling pack. You get a bit more lift height - 225mm and should have more forward reach. When debris fly's back you are further back as well, not right under it! Thats where plexiglass comes in handy through! With articulation you can just turn side to side to run a mulcher down a tree for example, you don't have to move the whole machine.

I wish I had a video showing the Schaffer's in muddy/rocky terrain but haven't got one as yet. The bigger loaders do have limited slip diffs front and back and outboard planetary drive so plenty of grunt.
There is a video Schaffer has when testing axles (they dump 2 tonnes of concete in the bucket) and go through very muddy terrain, I will try and get a hold of it!

You might like this picture, this customer owns a Schaffer 3150 a small posi and the other one showing steep grade at a field day (this was a long time ago!)



Cheers,

Cam

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Cole

yeah id buy one hey they are definetly well built and you guys have thought long and hard about the design, we also have a s330 bobcat after having both for two years or so were sold on the posi, do you have more pics of the under carridge, where abouts are the drive shafts what are the housed in, what are the rims made and what sort of brakes does it have how are the front brakes housed.

Cheers Cole

SchafferLoaders

Hi Cole,

You ask some good questions - when the bigger loaders first came from Germany we thought the same thing and added our own underbelly plates to protect anything vulnerable, now Schaffer sends the front end loaders over to us this way.
For the 5050Z we've also just put on some custom front drive shaft protection plates for the recycling industry as they push through mounts of plastics that gather and twist around the drive shaft and the operator has to detangle.

Brakes are lamellae wet pack - service free for the life of the loader, really the hydrostatic pulls you up, so you don't use them much anyway. The brakes aren't drum brakes or anything like that, they are sealed in the front diff housing.

Rims are FAD and also a German company, they use minimum 6mm plate. I think its a very high quality steel as we haven't ever had an issue with the bigger front end loaders. They use 6 x 18mm studs.

I don't have great pics of underneath, so here's the best I have and a few others.













You wouldn't happen to know the Duric family? They moved over to WA some time ago.

Cheers,

Cam

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quercus

Since a few months, I own a boxer 532DX. I've logged about 295 hours since I picked it up. There is nothing in the world that comes even close to this machine.
Since I got it I bought a bucket, stump grinder, heavy duty grapple, towing ball assembly for trailers, and so on and so on... for it.
The first week we hauled about 68 metric tonnes of logs, about 9ft lenght and 75 cm in diameter out of a forest in just 3 days, with a travelling distance of about 350 feet back and forth for each log.... We can grind stumps at a rate compared to a vermeer 352 at speeds up to 45 stumps of 40 cm's in diameter a day....
We cleaned up a pile of 95 cubic metres of chips in 2 days...
We can lift logs up to 800 pounds for transport without them touching the ground on the way to the trailer.
hell, I even designed a full automatic log splitter for it. Since I've got that we split about 50 cubic metres of firewood a day...
Right now a design for a modification of an existing new 7 inch chipper for it is on the drawing board.
I even pulled a car out of a ditch with it once...

The best investment I've made since I started out in the treecare business and with this... YOU ARE GETTING WHAT YOU ARE PAYING FOR!
Once you get the hang of it... There's no loader or anything else I'd want to trade it with.

Like I said... There is no machine in the world that comes close to this... really...

Cole

Hey quercus how are you, sounds like there a pretty good machine, sounds like it payed for itself pretty quickly, thats a pretty big comment that nothing else comes close to it in the world, whats your previous experiance with earth moving -hydraulics

Treefella

Hi. Thanks for that - a positive comment so they can't be that bad! Do you shift dirt, rock etc with yours or just use the grapple/rock bucket combo for brush?

ShafferLoaders: no I haven't bought one but hoping to give one a good test on demo soon. I'm also looking at the Avant 200 series. I think articulated has major advantages - loads more capacity and less ground damage - but of course even bigger still and won't turn in its own length. Maybe I should just forget about all the jobs where a bigger machine won't fit but I just don't like the idea of losing work from the outset.

quercus

In the last ten years I've rented pretty much everything that moves, hauls, skids, chips and lifted everything from dirt to wood and big bags... excavators, cranes, shovels , bobcats all big and small... Ok there are machines to do certain jobs faster and better. But If one has to buy every machine that would suit every job perfectly that would be a very costly situation. The only thing that we rent nowadays are very occasionally excavators and containers for wood and chips. We are planning on buying a truck with large effer crane later this year.

Cole

renting machines can also be very expensive, but also doesnt really you dont give you much idea about the machine only how to operate it for a day or so,the boxers are great we were thinking of purchasing one except there too small the production level out of one wouldnt be enough, if you require a small machine for every job and you do the same sort of work every job, then they would be good, but its far from the best machine out there, feck you dont even get a chair to sit on