Helping a weekend warrior skid/fetch dropped trees.

KiwiBro

Hi Y'all,

Dropping min' 18m pines on a very steep bank (the kind where if you trip, you better let go of anything sharp because you are going to rag-doll until a tree/trunk arrests your tumble).

Only access is up and over the top of the bank. I've been dropping, cutting into sections, roping to the ute over the brow of the bank and dragging them out. It's a PITA for one guy, one ute, one saw, and 100m of rope (that's about the sum total of what I'm using at the mo').

There's got to be some smarter/faster ways of doing this, hopefully without any additional expensive equipment but with a little nous and a few extra pieces of kit that don't cost too much. But I'm ignorant and hoping your good selves can help shed some light on the best techniques, etc.

I should have asked these questions 400 trees ago but I was new here then and not sure if I'd get a flaming for my ignorance. Pride came before the falling of those trees ;-).

Here's a bunch of questions:

1. Skidding: perhaps make a skidder out of steel instead of roping the trunks directly, in the hope there will be less load on the rope as the trunks will skid easier and not catch on small ledges or the stumps of previously fallen trees(cut to ground level with a small bevel on the downhill side to help any dragged logs jump up over them rather than catch, but it doesn't always work)
2. Fetching: haul more load without breaking the rope or wrecking the clutch in the ute. There's got to be a smarter way of getting longer sections of tree up off the bank without having to cut into so many sections. I'm think a snatch block on a fencepost or tree over the brow of the hill and either pulling with the ute along the brow, or maybe another snatch block back at a tree down the bank and then the ute pulling back down the other side of the hill - so looking at it from a plan view, the line would follow a "Z" shape from the tree section to the ute.
3. Felling: More easily getting a line and more load thereon, up into any trees leaning the 'wrong way'. Currently, I throw a large shackle on the end of a rope as high up the tree as I can get and put as much load as I can on it with the ute. Sometimes I can't sling it high enough nore get enough load on to pull the tree over. I can't climb yet - it's not in my "knee operation rehab protocol" and I'm sure my physio would take a dim view of me doing what I'm already doing on that bank/hill. Besides, I'm hoping for a faster method of getting a line into the trees and getting more load on it. Any smart ideas?
4. Bucking: I've been hauling the sections just over the brow of the hill, limbing them, stacking the limbs onto three huge (too large to burn safely now - silly me) stacks, then continuing to haul them down the slope of the hill where I buck 'em into rings for firewood and stack the rings there. I work my way along the log cutting down as far as I dare, trying not to let the chain kiss the dirt (but there's already quite a bit in the bark after dragging these things out). Then using a pinch bar I roll the logs over and finish off the cuts. I don't like not being able to cut right through the logs - it doesn't seem like the most efficient use of my time downing the saw, rolling them over and then finishing them off with the saw.

Essentially, I'm such a green horn, but what's worse, I'm a green horn on a tight budget. It makes for some very long and tiring days (which is fine but there's a nagging sense of 'stupid unproductiveness' that's bugs me). I'm attaching a picture that illustrates my point and ignorance/stupidity/call it what you will. The line on the tree in the dam was as high as I could get it from the ground and there was just too much weight leaning too far the wrong way for a straight line to the ute to have enough effect. the dam ended up being the best I could come up with at that time and with my limited knowledge:



Any help and advice would be great, thanks. Recall, this is most often a one-man operation.


I'm keen to soak up whatever wisdom you feel like sharing. Thanks in advance.

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Eric Frei

Log skidder cone ..... make one out of steel.



You need something at the apex of the hill, yanks call it a ginpole.

Mini Gin Pole

For slicing those log rings pull the log onto other smaller dia logs/branches so the log is not on the ground, like pulling it onto a set of rollers. Often when we fell the trunk of a tree in a takedown we lay out branches etc so the log is off the ground and we can dice it up.

Ute .... get an automatic!

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KiwiBro

Cheers Eric.

1: Skidder Cone: Yeap, I think I can scrounge around and fabricate a metal cone. Do you think I could get away with a simple cone and the chain around the trunk running straight out the apex hole connecting directly to a snatch block or rope, rather than any direct connection to the cone? What about cutting up a 200 ltr plastic drum and turning that into a cone? Not sure if plastic welding is strong enough, what it costs, or if I could twist it into a cone shape, but used drums are pretty cheap.

2: Gin Pole: I was just thinking of something along those lines: a snatch block/pully on a tie strap up in one of the top trees, high enough up and on enough strap to leave it dangling around 1.5m (I'm a shorty) off the ground when no load is on it. The pain about this is the top trees are still about 15m from the apex of the bank/hill, but at least it gets them out of all the really bad terrain.

3: Bucking aids: I'm thinking I should make best use of the slope on the other side of the hill and avoid the double handling of stacking the rings. Perhaps I could build a platform (uphill end bearing on and anchored to the ground, lower end adjustable (to suit height of splitter) and braced/anchored to the ground. Drag the logs directly onto the platform, ring them, and roll them over to the side of the platform for rolling to the splitter. Split them then and there. But unless I can mange the entire operation from felling to splitting the log in under an hour or so before the resin becomes too tacky (jeeze it's an awesome glue - I have to be careful of not ripping my skin off when releasing my grip on a cut end sometimes), it would be an arse - and I tend to think pine splits better dry-ish rather than green (never tried splitting it green before)? If I had a gin pole down by the ring stack such that the log would be suspended about two feet off the deck by the time it was dragged down there, then I could more easily drag them onto the platform without too much (possibly no) weight on the platform until backing up the ute and slackening the line, dropping the log onto the platform.

Lots to think about and trial. I think it's worth blowing off a day or two working out the best system.

If I have to bore some post holes for gin poles/snatch block anchors should I choose an auger reasonably bigger than the pole so it will be easier to get out later, in addition to angling the hole so the post is leaning slightly away from the expected load? Anything I can do to make it easier to get back out of the ground later? Perhaps check two 4" x2" horizontal stubs into the posts bearing on the ground so the load doesn't end up pile-driving the poles too far into the hole and make it too hard to get out again.

So many questions and what-if's. I can see a few monumental stuff-ups before I iron all this out :-)

Eric Frei

Yeah have a hole at the point of the cone and run a chain through, you pull the log not the cone.

The rest of the stuff you are on the right track, just be a MacGuyver.

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Willard Holmen

KiwiBro skidding cones work great as Eric says. But try skidding the trees uphill by the tops. Most trees lean towards the uphill slopes anyways so their easy enough to fell in that direction and easy enough to choke up by the tops from above. Tops slide over stumps alot easier then the butts.

Willard.

KiwiBro

Thanks Willard.

As it happens, with all the "non-negotiable" planting around and throughout this stand of pines, I have to drop 90% of them up hill, almost all the rest have to be sideways across the hill to avoid this or that plant that I dare not kill. there are a few though that are heavily leaning back down the hill and these are the tricky ones to drop. I've not developed a smart way to deal with those yet.

Re: draging small-end first, they don't drag so well if chained from the tops because all the branches catch break and generally throw the trunk around (or snap the rope). Should I be limbing them where they drop and then skidding by the small end first, dragging the limbs out after the trunk has been skidded out?

Got me a crazy shaped plastic drum (5mm thick sides) that I think might just work as a skidder with a few mods. For $15 bucks it is worth a shot. I call it skid mach I
Bought more rope, some snatch blocks, and will spend the next three days (long weekend here) trying to work out a decent system.

I'm not sure I have got my head around the loads on line, blocks, anchor points yet, but suffice it to say I'll be nowhere near the firing line when the first few attempts happen, just in case something snaps and shackles start flying.

You gotta love (or at least laugh at) us weekend warriors. What's easy for you guys is like a rubics cube for me to figure out while I try and stay in one piece or at least not damage the ute or what little gear I have too much. Great fun though.

Willard Holmen

You would have to remove the branches from your felled tree before you skid it up by the top because from your photo I see your tree's branchs arch upwards and they would snag like crazy.
I would lay a rope from your ute to down the hill along side your felled tree, then cut and pile the branches centred on the rope [as many as you figure your ute can pull] pull the bottom end of the up and over the pile of branches and tie with a running bowline to cinch the bundle.
Skid up your pile of branches and then skid up the stem by the top. Even your sideways felled trees can be skidded by the top.

Willard.

KiwiBro

Well, I was surprised how well the plastic drum worked as a skidder. It doesn't have the conical nose but it does taper somewhat. It really made a huge difference. I dropped a tree back down the slope so it spanned two small ledges and was rolled up against two other standing trees. There were at least five things the trunk sections could have caught on as they were hauled out. I cut the 60 foot trunk into 4 sections. hauling two with skid mach-I and two without. Both sections without the drum caught on a trunk and/or ledge. Both sections with the drum were easier to haul and didn't catch on a thing (I thought they would catch on a trunk becase the nose is only slightly tapered and the rope was running right alongside the trunks, but it didn't catch at all). Awesome!

Similarly, the snatch blocks were great too. I was skidding almost complete trees up and off that slope without stressing the ute too much. I was enjoying it so much I suspended the experimentation and just got stuck in and dragged as many off the slope as I could cut down. Also put a snatch block up into a tree that was leaning a long way the 'wrong way' and was able to pull it over - which was a real surprise because there's not way I could have done that in the past.

I just have the gin pole idea to test out now- getting the line and dragging force acting from significantly above the end of the log so it's even less chance of snagging and will reduce that friction somewhat.

Should have done all this ages ago. Makes a big difference.

Thanks for your help guys.

KiwiBro

Thanks for this. It's fairly dangerous working on that slope with a chainsaw. Also, when the tree falls, branches get caught and I'm not the best at predicting where the load is when cutting them or whether the trunk is going to roll. I prefer dragging them out onto a flatter top of the hill and cutting them next to a stack of limbs. It just seems safer at this stage, but I'll keep it in mind for when the terrain is a bit kinder.

gkn

Question ! at tafe I was told not to fall a tree uphill due to the fact that the trunk may come back and seperate your top half from your bottom half so to speak . Was/is this true ? or have I been misinformed , if you have to rope yourself down a steep embankment I cant see how you would be able to clear yourself from the felling zone , sorry if this a stupid question , pls feel free to set me straight on this

KiwiBro

I don't know about the 'correct' way to do these things so I just make sure I've got an escape route off to the side mapped out before I start cutting and when she starts to go, I most certainly do not stand there admiring my work ;-). Instead, I shut off the saw and get the hell out of the way because they can and do bounce back.

gkn

hey kiwi bro , thanks for getting back to me . IM not sure about the correct way either , thats why I posted , sure somebody on this site can inform us of the n,z -aus standards (pretty sure felling uphill is not it )

KiwiBro

A while back I had my 50 something year old Aunty over from Aussie and she was keen to give it a go, so I lined up an easy tree, did the face cut/wedge and showed her how to use the saw and told her all about escape routes, etc.
Well, she kept the saw in the cut and the falling tree did bounce back as she was admiring her work, having totally forgotten my escape route advice. I was on the opposite side to her and i saw this tree trunk shoot between us.
To this day she still doesn't know how unbelievably lucky she was and how reckless and stupid I was for allowing her to do it.

But yeah, knowing the 'right' way would be good, but I actually don't have a choice because dropping them downhill would kill more plants than my life is worth anyway.

gkn

you let your aunty kiwi bro your life is invaluable , plants you can buy !keep reading this site , from what Ive read these guys can help you finish the job safely , and improve your skill , so the next job you undertake you will be better prepared, mate its all about coming home every night!
you put the saw in your aunts hands , maybe you should put it in the customers next time ! then they will have a bit of respect for the job and give you a little more le way . best of luck with it ( think you might need it )