help me spend some money

sawsong

right then, I know how much tree guys love spending money, especially when it's someone elses. so here's your chance.

right, ive got my CS38 27th to 30th May and assessment on the 2nd June. Ive got nearly all my gear, but i shall have to get some more to meet the criteria.

peoples first hand experience whether of the course itself or possible gear i should buy would be most appreciated.

the requirements are:

Requirements
1 passport photograph
PPE (helmet with chin strap, boots etc)
Climbing rope (30m x min 12mm)
Safety harness with leg straps (full or seat harness). If using a full harness or Willams a Maillon Rapid will be required.
2 climbing strops; min 4 Triple-action auto-locking karabiners (not screw gate);
2 Prussik loops
Personal first aid kit

so, out of that list, ive got most of it already. Ive decided to get the petzl vertex vent helmet, especially since i can fit my husqvarna visor and muffs across to it.

ordering another length of prusik cord to make at least a couple more new loops.

gonna order another couple biners because why not.

decided i'll get a couple webbing slings for redirects and to help with the aerial rescue part of the course.


but my wondering is mainly the 2nd strop. i have currently a 3m petzl grillon but i need a second one.

now, do i go rope or wirecore this time?
3m again? 5m for more flexibility?

is wirecore worth bothering with? false sense of security?

and ascender/rope grab based or prusik for adjustment?

cheers in advance for all advice

jim

newguy18

Well since i splice up my own lanyards,i haven't used a wire core in almost a year but it does flip easier than just a rope flipline and its won't cut through as quick.I use a vt as an adjustment on my fliplines because i can release it under tension if i need to but go with whatever turns you on.Hope this helps.

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old schooler

blair duncanson

Is CS38, cutting from rope and harness with chainsaw?

sawsong

nah 38 is 'tree climbing and aerial rescue' 39 is operating chainsaw from rope and harness, and will hopefully come soon enough

newguy18

So is it mandatory to take such classes in the uk?Its optional here if you want to join up with the isa/tcia and take classes.I'll join up with them one day but over all what i've learned is from books and putting those practices into my daily use.

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old schooler

sawsong

Mandatory out here as far as i know. I could be wrong, but any reputable company or practitioner has their NPTC tickets and i think they are a legal requirement for insurance purposes at least. I do know you can get in bother for using a mewp without appropriate ticket, and when you do any work on commercial sites, they will often ask to see your qualifications.

to now, I have my CS30 which is chainsaw operation, maintenance and crosscutting, and my CS31 which is fell and process 'small' trees. Small trees by definition are trees up to the length of the guidebar. So i can cut down a 3ft trunk so long as I have a 3ft guidebar but on the course it's limited to 15inch bar and consists of thinning out a stand of pine

CS32 is Medium (up to 2x guidebar length) and CS33 is Large (Over 2x guidebar length including plunging through the centre of the hinge) 34 is processing single windblown tree, 35 is multiple windblown trees, i forget 36 and 37, but 30 and 31 are the prerequisites to all the others.

some people say it's overkill, but is it really? sure it costs a lot, but since its legal and regulated, it keeps the main part of the hacks out of it and tbh, I think EVERYONE should get special training on windblow, as the possibility for catastrophe through reading compression and tension wrong, plus the amount of stored energy in the tree, is very high!

this course alone is costing me over $1000 and my gear probably stands me somewhere to the same figure if not considerably more.
My cs30 and 31 was a combined course and cost the same. my CS39 to allow me to actually be a practicing tree surgeon (i seperate the terms tree surgeon as a practitioner and arborist as someone who is a qualified student of the theory). What I hope to become is what I would call a qualified Climbing Conservation Arborist

sawsong

not to mention HSE seem to be cracking down on tree teams not having a qualified climber/aerial rescuer on the ground, so it should make me good and employable. the fact that everything Ive been learning about conservation, ecology, arboriculture and silviculture has come off my own back seems to be standing me in good stead too.

Eric Frei

I have 2 wire core ones, I insist on wire core.

Also for your redirects what are you going to run the rope through, 2 biners opposing gates etc? That's all I used.

Do you have to do a pole top rescue? If so you'll need to figure out a pole top high point.

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blair duncanson

Aye to wire core although i do not think it is compulsory for cs38, better check. Try to get handy with the throw bag, save you many change overs and will give you more time to reach your targets.
Cambium saver.?Until you get your saw from harness, chances are you will be doing much work with pruning saw, hence retaining tree.Efficiently positioning saver in tree with use of throwline ,again maybe not compulsory but will be impressive in exam. Couple lengths of climbing rope is handy. I usually have 20mtr and 40mtr length ropes on site. Revise criteria for exam in blue handbook. Think safety then efficientcy. Mind the stopper knot on c/rope, i forgot that a few times!
Good on you man for doing the exams, solid founds an' aw that.

sawsong

not sure on this. Definitely have to at least explain the process. ive had to contact the centre to find out. because if a pole top is required then i'll need spikes, but theyre not on the requirement list so are they supplied type thing... someone has told me that guys they work with did it at the same centre and took the required list of gear and nothing else and it was fine. Spikes have been something ive been avoiding for the reasons I outlined in a different topic and the high expense, but i suppose to be able to rescue a climber in any situation, I should probably have some anyway?


Thanks blair, Ive got a cambium saver already. along with a couple prusik loops, 4 triple locks, petzl grillon, my skylotek kolibri harness, 2 marlow split tails and my 37m yale XTC climb line in half inch, 50m throwline and 12oz throwbag, micropulley, fig8 and maybe a couple bits ive forgotten.

been practising my throwline work. think ive got a topic here somwhere from when i was trying to learn extra techniques. Good advice about revising the criteria in advance. I did that with my 30 and 31 and it stood me in good stead

Thanks all

Jim

sawsong

oh wow! 5m wirecores are ridiculously expensive! do i need 5m or would 3m suffice the same as my grillon?

newguy18

that depends,how big are the trees you'll be working with?Do the testers require certain lengths?

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old schooler

sawsong

good question... and... doesnt say.

i do admit im a bit lost as to what to do. getting so much conflicting advice as to whether to go rope or wirecore and as to what length.

I could go for a 3m wirecore with a snap for reasonable money, but that puts me on a 3m grillon and a 3m wirecore. Am i better getting a 5m soft flipline for now and a wirecore later. I just dont know lol. I was hoping for some concensus of opinion. looks like that was just wishful thinking.

newguy18

Well if you can get a wirecore in your price range get it,new climbers need everything working for them.

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old schooler

quercus

Mate, I'm guessin' you guys on the other side of the puddle have the same size of trees that we do over here. I've never had a tree where my 3.5 metre wirecore was too short.It was a 5 metre actually, but I had it made shorter. On a tree that is bigger, I don't climb with spikes any more. I body thrust it until reaching a point where the flipline can handle it. Gotta have those spikes and a wirecore for takedowns though. I've got the edelrid forest extreme. I could recommend that one to you because I'm quite fond of it. Ropeclamp is very good too...

As for the redirect you could use a small double pulley. Sure makes a difference.

sawsong

thanks mate. checked out the forestry extreme stuff, and it's looking at over £150 to set myself up with that



right... 3m yale steelcore on its own with snap about £50
3.5m (12ft) about £85

either of those require say ISC rope grab at 30 quid and a soft link

would a 'New england 5m split tail with single eye splice' do the job with whatever hardware?

also, are there places that would splice an eye on the end and fit a rope snap for me?

thinking although i'll need a steelcore in the future, for now a second non-cored will stand me in good stead while money's tight. Ive managed to secure myself a job from june to infinity, so there will be some money coming in soon enough

Jim

blair duncanson

Trees will be of various heights, quite open crowned and strong, maybe something like an oak? You just need to touch certain targets, involving short branch walking and maybe one redirect? Anything which you do not have from the list, you either will not need, or the examiner will provide. Spike rescue was not compulsory when i sat the exam but i think you can be asked to do one as one of your rescues but unlikely, check that out. You will not need wire core for your exam!

treekiwi

Hey guys,
i rarely use a steelcore flipline in day to day operations, rarely on takedowns unless piecing down large stems, its heavy, doesnt fold up out of the way very nicely and generally isnt very user friendly.... Id suggest a stiff 12 or 13mm rope lanyard with a prussic and pulley adjuster if you want to be cost efficent... Unless you are doing takedowns you dont need one and even then i use a rope lanyard for most samll to medium takedowns, if you go with a solid thick rope there is no real advantage... You can still cut a steelcore prity easily... 046 on full noise doesnt stop for much lol!

sawsong

Thankyou very much guys. Having now also found out that wirecores are not compulsory, only advisable for CS39, I shall get a rope lanyard for now. perhaps some nice stiff marlow or the like.

just a couple of questions pertaining to this. I would quite like to get something spliced onto a snaphook just to keep it tidy rather than tied on (although I have no problem with tied).

Will I be able to find somewhere that does this? or am I going to be looking to get a length with a spliced eye and then use a PPE certified maillon to connect the two?

havent decided whether to use a prusik to adjust yet or some kind of rope grab, (probably the ISC one, looks well made) but i already have a pulley and prusik cord is cheaper. It isnt all about the cost, but I want to do it well. My grillon of course is rope grab centred so perhaps a prusik type would work for me too.

Ah yes, I assume it is good practice when using two lanyards to have the adjustment on opposite sides of the harness?

and how is best to store one when not in use?

thanks again for your time guys. youve been really helpful to me

Jim

Sean Freeman

Jim I use rope lanyards almost all the time now (about 2yrs since I did a really big tree removal, and unlikely I'll do any more) I have the spliced eye mallion set up, it is very convenient for me, I have the longer lanyard too so it doubles as a second tip very often..making getting out to the very outermost branch tips more comfortable (vry imp)

The pic posted of Q's harness shows his lanyard chained this is a good way to keep things out of the way...I'm lazy so just double mine and feed the doubled end back through the side D until its needed.