Dr Storricks new tree devices

jim1nz · 10th May 2007, 02:53 AM

Dr Storrick, i have just been to your website and its hard to believe its you because your not a mortal like us are you? Absolute full credit to your achievements!

Ok if we are going to get into this, then i think we as arborists need to identify what we actually want, not even Dr Storrick can read our minds ay TM

Here are a few simple straight foward things i want out of a piece of equipment that hasn't been invented yet;

- A smooth and controllable friction device, a device that allows you to descend quickly, tend slack reasonably easily and apply friction smoothly also. = A perfect world

- A device that can be used in a DRT system or a SRT system, is it possible? One or the other would be ok though, are we concentrating on SRT?...

- Something thats not too bulky and heavy, for example the unicender is too bulky but the lockjack is about right.

- It has to adhere to the arboricultural code of conduct for climbing equipment.

There is a start, who is next...

James

Ekka · 10th May 2007, 03:31 AM

Personally, I wouldn't like climbing with some great hunk of alloy ready to bash me in the head/face anytime I step up and over a few limbs (like unicender).

I'd like a device to be compact like the lock jack. Tear drop shaped so it doesn't get stuck in forks or palm butts. Idiot proof so if I let go it grabs.

What makes friction hitches work for us is the fact that we grab the knot and drag it with us along the line. This is fine on DRT but SRT they tend to bite too hard and get stuck ... hence the necessity for mechanical devices.

I want a device that doesn't have anything hanging out of it like the lockjack, no handles, no strings/ropes etc.

Tree Machine · 10th May 2007, 05:28 AM

More, more.....

So could we transfer those thoughts to a new thread?

Dr Storrick's New Tree Device

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimNZ

Dr Storrick, I have just been to your website and its hard to believe its you because your not a mortal like us are you? Absolute full credit to your achievements!

My sentiments exactly. Dr Gary is a God-like figure for all students of aerial discipline, a shining beacon of otherworldly knowledge, a head honcho.

I would expect Dr Storrick to be 3 meters tall and surrounded by a glowing aura. Standing in front of his collection would be like reaching Mecca.

George Hayduke · 10th May 2007, 12:29 PM

From the pics that I've seen of the Uni it can be mounted on an adjustable lanyard and kept away from your pearly whites. To be able to ascend and descend without changing gear sounds like a small tradeoff for a bit of bulk.

So some people quack about the price. The LJ is spendy and has expensive wear parts. The Uni can be rebuilt pretty cheap it seems. The cost of some of the performance harnesse, Treeflex, Treemotion, Butterfly has been creeping up and the sales seem to be going up too. Cost doesn't seem to be an issue but performance is.

gdstorrick · 10th May 2007, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tree Machine

More, more.....

So could we transfer those thoughts to a new thread?

Dr Storrick's New Tree Device

My sentiments exactly. Dr Gary is a God-like figure for all students of aerial discipline, a shining beacon of otherworldly knowledge, a head honcho.

I would expect Dr Storrick to be 3 meters tall and surrounded by a glowing aura. Standing in front of his collection would be like reaching Mecca.

This is getting silly. I'm not god-like, we don't need to name anything after me (it isn't my design concept we're working on), I'm only 1.93 meters tall, and sexy women run away from my aura

. You are right about standing in front of the collection, though: heaven for a gear geek.

----

Jim had the right idea, decide what the requirements are first! I wish I could get that point across to the engineers that I work with. Since I'm not Tarzan, perhaps I should ask some questions. What size ropes are we looking at for SRT & DRT (or is it DST? S=string

). Standard arborists topes, I assume (I have a WesSpur catalog here, BTW). I presume we are looking at a combination ascender/descender - that is something that cavers do not generally need, but I imagine you-all do. I assume you want to drag the device along with you as you walk out a limb. Will you be expecting it to catch you if you fall? Both ways? Do you expect to work it with leather gloves on? I assume you work in the rain, what about snow & ice (brrrr)?

What do you like and dislike about the devices that are out there? What safety regulations must a device adhere to (us cavers don't need no stinking regulations

)

That's a start.....

----> Gary

PS: I have a lockjack and a lockjack sport, but no directions for their use. Can someone mail me a xerox copy (609 Penn Drive, Trafford, PA 15085)?

George Hayduke · 10th May 2007, 04:41 PM

For all of the info on ART tools look here:

http://www.climb-art.com/

This is another source:

http://www.freeworker.de/

gdstorrick · 10th May 2007, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Hayduke

For all of the info on ART tools look here:

http://www.climb-art.com/

This is another source:

http://www.freeworker.de/

Thanks, George. I had downloaded the manual from the first site (but forgot to print it!!!). I hadn't seen the second site.

----> Gary

Tree Machine · 10th May 2007, 10:10 PM

I like to thank, in advance, all those who contribute to this thread, as well as all the readers watching this unfold.

Rumor has it that there are nearly 14 tree climbers, at this time, worldwide who give a hoot about this new device.

A device is also known as a 'piece', though 'device' tends to carry a tone of complexity and 'piece' a tone of simplicity. However, 'piece' and 'device' can and are used interchangably.

Welcome to piece-based climbing. Give piece a chance, is what I say.

Hardware, mechanical devices. These are other terms, though when you say 'mechanical devices', one immediately thinks 'complicated'.

All these terms can describe even the simplest of friction control devices.

And as long as we're on it, let me share with you what must be considered the simplest of all mechanical devices. Are you ready?

Tree Machine · 10th May 2007, 10:14 PM

Pretty simple for a 'mechanical device', dont' ya think?

Tree Machine · 10th May 2007, 10:25 PM

This is how you apply the device to the rope:

Sean Freeman · 10th May 2007, 10:29 PM

nice one TM didn't think you could get simpler than the belay/stitch plate but you've manage it with the belay link...better patent that baby mate

Tree Machine · 10th May 2007, 10:30 PM

Now, this piece is hardly worth discussion. Do not use it, OK? But at does fulfull the definition ability of a piece of metal creating friction on a rope. For 10 cents or less, you too can descend SRT. Baby's first descender.

Please do not use a chain link for abseiling. There are better options.

Tree Machine · 10th May 2007, 10:33 PM

I just wanted to put that out there because people carry the notion that mechanical devices are somehow complicated. They can be, but they don't have to be.

Tree Machine · 10th May 2007, 10:49 PM

....look, there it is.....!

Ekka · 10th May 2007, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gdstorrick

Standard arborists topes, I assume (I have a WesSpur catalog here, BTW).

Arborists use a full 1/2" rope, commonly called 13mm dia, many pieces for rock/caving suit 11mm rope and aren't so nice for 13mm ... but quite a few people use 11mm

Quote:

Originally Posted by gdstorrick

I presume we are looking at a combination ascender/descender - that is something that cavers do not generally need, but I imagine you-all do.

Yes, we need work positioning.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gdstorrick

I assume you want to drag the device along with you as you walk out a limb. Will you be expecting it to catch you if you fall? Both ways?

Not sure about the both ways, not all friction hitches work both ways, but the device must catch us one way and that is down.

The device must always be within reach, and for people like me who have to snug up against stuff like palms an adjustable tether etc. I sometimes run a real short bridge on my prussic but when ascending a tree have a much longer bridge.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gdstorrick

Do you expect to work it with leather gloves on? I assume you work in the rain, what about snow & ice (brrrr)?

Optional but I never climb with gloves, it's semi tropical here and even in winter you sweat.

Tree Machine · 11th May 2007, 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary

Jim had the right idea, decide what the requirements are first! I wish I could get that point across to the engineers that I work with.

Yea, thinks for starting that, JimNZ. Keep the requirements coming. Tonight I will compile those needs into a formalized list and add a few remaining requirements. That list will be the foundation of our design.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary

I presume we are looking at a combination ascender/descender - that is something that cavers do not generally need, but I imagine you-all do.

This is sort of what tree climbers are used to, with a friction hitch system. Breaking through that mindset and having us look at a new piece without ANY EMOTIONAL BAGGAGE attached to friction hitches is gonna be the hard part.

No one is being asked to change or convert over. We're just looking at new options, so I urge that we stay true to our requirements list and not ask the device to become a mechanical substitute for a hitch.

A mechanical setup can do exactly as a hitch system does, and I think a new device should, at a minimum, give you what the hitch system does in function and ability, but it needs to go way beyond. Wait til you see the completed requirements list, you'll understand.

We will need to pack a lot of ability into one single piece to have something worth something. But, we have a unique pool of talent at treeworld. I believe we can do this.

10th May 2007, 02:53 AM	#1 (permalink)
jim1nz Mature tree Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Tauranga, New Zealand Posts: 296	Dr Storrick, i have just been to your website and its hard to believe its you because your not a mortal like us are you? Absolute full credit to your achievements! Ok if we are going to get into this, then i think we as arborists need to identify what we actually want, not even Dr Storrick can read our minds ay TM Here are a few simple straight foward things i want out of a piece of equipment that hasn't been invented yet; - A smooth and controllable friction device, a device that allows you to descend quickly, tend slack reasonably easily and apply friction smoothly also. = A perfect world - A device that can be used in a DRT system or a SRT system, is it possible? One or the other would be ok though, are we concentrating on SRT?... - Something thats not too bulky and heavy, for example the unicender is too bulky but the lockjack is about right. - It has to adhere to the arboricultural code of conduct for climbing equipment. There is a start, who is next... James __________________ SPEED ALWAYS FOLLOWS TECHNIQUE

10th May 2007, 03:31 AM	#2 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,844	Personally, I wouldn't like climbing with some great hunk of alloy ready to bash me in the head/face anytime I step up and over a few limbs (like unicender). I'd like a device to be compact like the lock jack. Tear drop shaped so it doesn't get stuck in forks or palm butts. Idiot proof so if I let go it grabs. What makes friction hitches work for us is the fact that we grab the knot and drag it with us along the line. This is fine on DRT but SRT they tend to bite too hard and get stuck ... hence the necessity for mechanical devices. I want a device that doesn't have anything hanging out of it like the lockjack, no handles, no strings/ropes etc. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

10th May 2007, 10:29 PM	#11 (permalink)
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,643	nice one TM didn't think you could get simpler than the belay/stitch plate but you've manage it with the belay link...better patent that baby mate __________________ Sean Trees are poems that earth writes upon the sky, We fell them down and turn them into paper, That we may record our emptiness. - Kahlil Gibran

10th May 2007, 12:29 PM	#4 (permalink)
George Hayduke Banned Join Date: May 2007 Location: Slickrock, USA Posts: 93	From the pics that I've seen of the Uni it can be mounted on an adjustable lanyard and kept away from your pearly whites. To be able to ascend and descend without changing gear sounds like a small tradeoff for a bit of bulk. So some people quack about the price. The LJ is spendy and has expensive wear parts. The Uni can be rebuilt pretty cheap it seems. The cost of some of the performance harnesse, Treeflex, Treemotion, Butterfly has been creeping up and the sales seem to be going up too. Cost doesn't seem to be an issue but performance is.

10th May 2007, 04:41 PM	#6 (permalink)
George Hayduke Banned Join Date: May 2007 Location: Slickrock, USA Posts: 93	For all of the info on ART tools look here: http://www.climb-art.com/ This is another source: http://www.freeworker.de/

10th May 2007, 10:10 PM	#8 (permalink)
Tree Machine Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 569	I like to thank, in advance, all those who contribute to this thread, as well as all the readers watching this unfold. Rumor has it that there are nearly 14 tree climbers, at this time, worldwide who give a hoot about this new device. A device is also known as a 'piece', though 'device' tends to carry a tone of complexity and 'piece' a tone of simplicity. However, 'piece' and 'device' can and are used interchangably. Welcome to piece-based climbing. Give piece a chance, is what I say. Hardware, mechanical devices. These are other terms, though when you say 'mechanical devices', one immediately thinks 'complicated'. All these terms can describe even the simplest of friction control devices. And as long as we're on it, let me share with you what must be considered the simplest of all mechanical devices. Are you ready?

10th May 2007, 10:30 PM	#12 (permalink)
Tree Machine Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 569	Now, this piece is hardly worth discussion. Do not use it, OK? But at does fulfull the definition ability of a piece of metal creating friction on a rope. For 10 cents or less, you too can descend SRT. Baby's first descender. Please do not use a chain link for abseiling. There are better options.

10th May 2007, 10:33 PM	#13 (permalink)
Tree Machine Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 569	I just wanted to put that out there because people carry the notion that mechanical devices are somehow complicated. They can be, but they don't have to be.