Ascentree| Petzl Dual Handled Ascender

Tree Machine

From:- single handled dual ascender

Here's an addition; released just yesterday at the Milwaukee Tree Care Industry Association EXPO.
TreeWorld is the first to bring you the scoop

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Attached Files

	AscenTree.pdf (190.7 KB, 183 views)
	Ascentree-technical-manual-useage.pdf (2.86 MB, 188 views)

Galbee

Im impressed that actually looks like it would work there is room to connect a carabena on the top unlike the previous attempt im looking forward to trying that one, i would have put another rivet in it personally i like over engineering but a major improvement all the same

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Tree Machine

That's sort of the breakthrough feature. The solution was realized by re-thinking two ascenders in a backward sort of way.

Arborists buy tons of gear from Petzl because Petzl has some really awesome gear. This AscenTree ascender is different, though. This device was created specifically for our profession; tree climbing. Petzl has gone out of their way to create something just for Arborists.


We as an industry use Petzl gear that was more specifically designed for other industries like search and rescue, fire, tower access, alpine, rock climbing ice climbing, mountaineering and all access at height.

But they have taken a step in our direction and fabricated something for us, special.

This is a first. I don't know anything about the product, yet, but I really appreciate that Petzl is thinking of us.

TrevMcRev

Dont forget the Petzl Sequoia Saddle either, another arborist targeted product by Petzl.

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TrevMcRev

I'l try to get hold of the Ascentree as soon as possible and we'll put it to the test.

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quercus

I've tested this on the last small contest we had.Two guys had them allready and I've had the opportunity to try them. Been talking about it the dual ascender thread. Looks very good and feels very nice.
Petzl is going to do some changes to it, before they introduce them on the market. latest I've heard is that they will be available as of march 2009.

Tree Machine

Yea!!! Quercus!!!! You are the man!
tell us more, tell us more,


P l e a s e......

quercus

Yeah well they are not so very differentfrom the kong design. Generally they are the same, but this design assembles two full stand alone ascenders. Instead of doing it like us, they take two right handled ascenders and rivet them together. Unlike kong's, there is a major improvement on this part, because if rivets do fail, you are still safe because the ascenders will stay together. The kong design has a serious flaw on the rivet part. i've heard from the guys at petzl that there is going to be an improvement on the handles. They say that the handles are gonna be slightly more horizontal when they do come out in march. There are some guys who have them allready though. If I where petzl, I'd make sure they get in the hands of someone who's on a forum like this. There are some other things from petzl that are new, such as the sequoia, the sequoia SRT (we have them in large quantities in our own shop, so I've been testing in the shop and I wouldn't trade it for my treemotion though.) but some other things, such as steel fliplines and other things are also going to come out soon. They are following edelrid on this part. Edelrid has been selling those things for years. I'll have to see first if petzl's gear is better.
On the sequoia, there are a few good things IMHO, such as the fact that it has been built around petzl's caritool both small and large. IMHO the saddle is too flexible and therefore is not very comfortable to hang into for a long time. They are very lightweight though and the bridge is quite solid, but there is a protection sleeve over the stitchings and since baccou dalloz produced a life threatening butterfly saddle some years ago with a flaw in the stitchings wich couldn't be seen because of the protective sleeve, that's some thing I would want to check every time I climb. Petzl hasn't learned from the mistake with the add-on sidestraps they've been selling for a few years now. In the bridge, where the ends of the strap are sewn togheter , there's a hrad zone that can't bend. So when you are hanging in your system and everything is tensioning, you can't turn your body because your biner wont make the turn over that hard part. There is absolutely nothing better than a simple piece of climbing line like on the treemotion.

Tree Machine

But someone who?

If I were Petzl, I'd want someone with camera and who would use these things every working day and put them through the ranks like any good extreme end user would, in good weather and bad, using SRT and both of the doubled line systems.




Out of respect, we should ask Petzl if they want this sort of exposure.

For formality sake, Petzl should be given the opportunity to tell Ekka this directly, then we can proceed, everyone on the same page.

All I can offer right now is, $200 and the instructions are pretty good, though they don't cover things like backing up and downward adjustment. For now I'll give it a rest and wait to hear back.

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Tree Machine

Oh Petzl, click, click.
Are you out there?

TrevMcRev

Just got some pricing on these. I expect them to run in the high $300 to low $400 mark in Australia.

TM, have you been quoted around $200 in the US?

There is also a Petzl Pantin Left Foot being released

UPDATE: Treegear.com.au now has them available and they have come in at a respectable $319.95. Petzl Ascentree at Treegear.

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Tree Machine

Quoted? I bought a set. Seems Petzl brought a limited stock to TCIA. I had a dude there whose mission it was to infiltrate and get me a set.

The cost for the ascenders was $200, + the cost of the fuel donation.

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hanslintermans

Hi guys,

I'm new to the forum, but was drawn here by your elaborate discussion on the new Petz Ascentree. I have been doing treework on an amateur basis for some time now, but have not gotten to climbing the rope up and therefore am not too experienced in this area. I was hoping to get some basic info from you.

Basically I understand the ascentree would be a great tool (given that you use it with caution!) to clim a rope up the tree. I currently have a climbing harness and rope (10mm) from my wall-climbing hobby... on top of buying the Ascentree, what other accessoires would I need to get up the rope.
Now, I understand the Ascentree helps you pull yourself up by pushing up with your feet. However, I would also need some other attributes to prevent myself from sliding back down while I re-adjust the Ascentree for my 'next pull'. Would I need to put a 'ring' on the rope, used normally to descent a rope (rapelling)? What else would I need to make the setup work?

Many thanks for any tips!

Cheers!!
Hans

HolmenTree

It would be a good idea to back up this ascender if your footlocking double rope[static]. Even if only one cam get a twig or debris in it you are going down. Make a prusik loop with 8 feet of line smaller in diameter then your climbing rope diameter. Tie ends together with a double fishermen's knot. Now tie into the doubled climbing rope above the ascender with the loop tied into a 3 wrap prusik knot. Biner the other end of the loop into the bridge of your saddle.
The hand ascender advances the prusik. Now when you get to the false crotch or friction saver at the top of the tree you can hang from the prusik and put your ascender away and plan your work. You cannot decend to the ground with this system, you will have to tie into the tree with your lanyard, install a figure 8 descender into both ropes and then you are ready to descend. This system is called the secured footlock technique.

Tree Machine

Those are the fundamentals.

HolmenTree

Yes the old school double rope footlock is the fastest way to get up a tree or win a competition.
But I ditched it years ago, I like the half the speed reliable dynamic with a Blakes split tail. You get to the top and can immediately start working the canopy and with caution you can descend on it too.

Tree Machine

'Old school' is the new 'new school'. Dual ascenders instead of a prussik makes it very much a different world.

HolmenTree

Like I said earlier be sure to back up that dual ascender with a prusik.
I got an old pair of gold and blue Petzl single ascenders. Used them for the first 6 months when I started to footlock on the Blakes.From them helping out my hand grip I was then able to concentrate better on my feet doing the footlocking. Haven't used the Petzls since .
Anyone looking for some good used Petzls?

Gunslinger

Anybody have a couple of photo's of how you would set up one of these ascenders?

Tree Machine

This could be a really, really good thread, and the pictures could be numerous and the detailed, descriptive instruction could be discussed in great detail.

Petzl has been less than enthusiastic, and rather unsupportive in having their #1 google thread be a powerhouse marketing/information discussion. They have even been invited to participate directly in the thread with us to enhance it further.


If Petzl wants potential buyers to sort of magically understand these things I hope the best for them. However, if Petzl wants this thread to promote the use of the Ascentree ascenders and have them spotlighted in a thorough and exhaustive worldwide discussion within our industry, they really need to step forward and tell Ekka that.

I have dozens of pictures, time-lapse videos, set-ups of the ascenders, use of them, things you should really know, based on actual experience and their entire instruction sheet, parts of which need some level of interpretation, some essentials that are missing and a couple things that are just plain wrong. However, since they aren't onboard with this unique opportunity of exposure, I choose to respect that and keep myself out of this.

If Petzl comes around and sees this for the opportunity that it is, they'll contact Ekka and we'll erase this post and let the pictures flow.

Until then, see what the Petzl website has to offer. It's pretty bare bones, I don't think you'll find the answer to the question preceeding this post, but best luck anyway.

HolmenTree

I believe one example of a reputable source for this kind of information is the International Society of Arboriculture, period.

hanslintermans

Thanks for all the replies!

Some of the terminology used is still a bit above my level of climbing knowledge, but using a bit of google and Wikipedia I'm starting to figure it out...

Just wondering, what makes the Ascentree so much better than a Jumar? I understand I would only need one Ascentree to be used with both hands, while I would need two Jumars... Why do treeclimbers not prefer simply using Jumars? When using the Jumars, I would need two Etriers to push myself up with my feet, right? How does it work with the Ascentree... do I use just one Etrier for both feet at the same time?
Holmentree (thanks!) mentioned that the Ascentree setup does not allow for descending the rope. What if I decide, half-way up, that I need to go down... is the only option to go up, retie myself and setup a 'figure 8'?
Some of you mention that there is some good material explaining the various techniques. Could you share a link to this? Would be great!

Thanks for helping a newbie!

Cheers
Hans

Gunslinger

Tree, that certainly sounds like a sales pitch and not really what some of us would expect on a free, world wide forum. But it is your information so you can do with it what you please.

Tree Machine

I'm not selling anything. I'd like Petzl to support the information surrounding their own product. Holmen thinks ISA should be that definitive source (good luck with that). I would be happy to share and contribute, but who am I to spearhead this effort?

There's nothing at stake here for me, however Petzl I'd think has quite a bit on the line. Come on in and join us. All the readership wants is authoritative, detailed information to help them make a decision as to whether they want to add this ascender to their kit.

Quite a number of other manufacturers contribute here and support their products, that give the threads a great deal of substance. We just want to be inclusive and make sure Petzl is offered the opportunity to be part of their own thread.

Gunslinger

Can anyone figure out why this thing costs 200 bucks when you can buy two single petzl ascenders for $65 each? I just took a look at the dual handled ascender in the new Wesspur catalog and when compared to the Petzl single ascenders it appears to be nothing more than two right hand ascenders riveted together. $70 extra is a lot to spend for a couple of rivets.

HolmenTree

Yeah maybe I was a little quick jumping onto the ISA band wagon. To be honest with you, do what I did years ago go and take a hands on ArborMaster Training course. You will learn all you need to know about ascenders and the best money you will have ever spent. Sherrills sells ArborMaster Training's DVDs and workbooks "Series 1-Climbing Techniques". Ken Palmer and Rip Tompkins do an excellent job. This training module is worth 6 CEUs towards ISA.
On the subject of Petzl I don't think they want to endorse a product on Arboriculture as much as they would on mountain,rock climbing or rescue.

Eric Frei

Some how I dont think TM needs climbing training, he's ex rock, SRT and DRT efficient, into self rigging and solo work, gadget man come pseudo scientist inventor.

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Tree Machine

Actually, a trained scientist, and a pseudo inventor. I don't talk about my science training at all on forums. My first job out of college was as a molecular biologist, a protein chemist extracting an enzyme that transcibes DNA out of an avian retrovirus. Really. I couldn't make that up.

Deep lab work didn't appeal to me from the perspective of a 40 year career viewpoint, and I was only about three years in. I needed more exercise, that's the blunt truth, that was very clear to me. From 94-98 I was the director o a mycology lab, couldn't shake the science thing. Part of my job was to procure fresh wood for the cultivation of 22 different species of edible fungi, and one that grows on the forest floor, the Morel. I spent years trying to crack that mystery and just by some really strange coincidence I just submitted a 1,000 word article to the Tree Care Industry Association publication for the May '09 issue. The article is on establishing outdoor morel mushroom patches.

The mycology studies and treecare augmented each other really well, sort of a perfect marriage. I could be a scientist and get an extraordinary amount of exercise. The 16 hour work days with the two jobs got to be too much for for my marriage and a choice had to be made. I loved science, but I really, reaally loved arboriculture. There's plenty of science in this profession and the outdoors is my 'lab'.

I am very greatful to have found this profession and the networking and sharing of knowledge on arbo forums. One aspect I know very thoroughly is the use of dual ascenders, been using them for 13 years. I like them because you can ascend 1:1 twin-line (DbRT), 2:1 doubled (DdRT) or SRT all with this one tool. I vascillate between the three different rope techniques and enjoy not being solely dedicated to any one. My 'style' varies so much that I don't really have a 'style'. The only real consistency, day to day, is that I use dual ascenders because of the variety of ascent modes possible.

Tree Machine

Wrong. All Petzl has ever done historically is produce gear for caving, rock climbing, fire, search and rescue, tower, alpine, etc. Treeguys have found use for that sort of gear and as time went on, Petzl found Arborists to be more and more of a market. They began to produce gear more specifically for us, but at the same time that same gear could be used in other aerial industries.

AscenTree is, in my estimation, their first piece of gear specific to the Arborist. The rest of the climbing world is SRT and I have to credit Petzl for finally catering to us. I really respect this.

But as far as endorsing a product for Arboriculture, this one essentially has no market except to us. This is really a tree-specific piece of gear, so yes, I think they WOULD want to endorse their new piece of tree climbing gear to tree climbers on a tree climbing forum that is viewed worldwide, especially since this thread is #1 on the Google search for Ascentree or Dual ascenders (Good job, Ekka).

But because Petzl chooses to not step in and support their product, this thread is crap and the information on their #1 information thread remains unsubstantial. I am not stepping up to be some world authority on dual ascenders. I'll help, but the job really belongs to the manufacturer. I am passionate about Petzl gear. Petzl needs to be equally passionate and they will sell a lot of these. If they can't, won't or don't want to, their potential customers will likely carry the same enthusiasm.

HolmenTree

You make excellent points TM but I believe Petzl's spokesperson is doing the right thing to stay out of this forum because of the many variable liability issues we are presenting here.
Arboriculture is now the most dangerous work profession, even over crab fishermen. Chainsaws 100 ft off the ground dismantling trees weighing tons.
Now recreation tree climbing thats a different story. And I think thats what Petzl had intended for their product "Ascentree".