12 guage Line Launcher

Therrin · 8th January 2008, 11:27 PM

Oh yeah.... here it is. The modified baseball lobbing line launching system.

A heavily modified tactical Remington 870 12 guage.

A baseball, drilled, with a 5/8" wooden dowel inserted. (used gorilla glue, it's drying now)

I'll give it a test run tomorow morning.

JayD · 8th January 2008, 11:33 PM

You would be draged away by the police here,..LOL..I really dont think you will have problems with non payers using your launcher..LOL

Therrin · 8th January 2008, 11:42 PM

The left bowl has an empty, primed shell, along with the shot that came out of it. The right bowl has the plastic wadding, along with the powder.

I'll cut the powder in half, dump it back in, insert 3 cardboard disks, then stuff it with toilet paper and re-crimp it. Instant blanks

The powder weighed out to 10 grains per shell. So I'll set up the feed to drop 5 grains, and use it to re-charge the shells.

Ekka · 8th January 2008, 11:52 PM

Isn't the whole barrel of that shotty gonna explode in ya face?

Therrin · 8th January 2008, 11:59 PM

Nope.

The chemical way that shotgun powder burns is called conflagration, its kinda like a "slow-burn" albeit it happens really quickly. Black powder is chemically different in that it "explodes"... it reacts at a much higher rate.

By removing the two plastic wads, which impede the flow of the hot gasses from the explosion, you're effectively reducing the power output considerably.

The effect you get after that, is just some under-powered hot gasses wanting to escape the barrel. With the dowel in the end, they need to push it out before they can escape, which pushes the dowel to its escape velocity. It would "blow the barrel" if the dowel were somehow wedged or lodged in the barrel, and DIDNT allow the gasses to escape. Since the barrel is 3/4", and the dowel is 5/8", it slides easily in and out. The gasses in this case will just push it out when they escape.

Tomorow's test launches will show me just how much power the gasses have. Since I removed the restrictive plastic wadding which serves to multiply the outgas force, it should be more of a loud POP, than a big BANG.

Then again, the dowel is soft wood, and would be more likely to fragment and shatter out the end, in lieu of the barrel shattering. After the glue is dry, I'll place a rubber washer at the end of the wooden dowel, then screw a metal washer against it. This should help to give slight seal against the inner barrel, catching more of the outgassing force, as well as to keep the heat away from the soft wood of the dowel.

Whatsup, you guys don't learn this stuff in school over there?

Ekka · 9th January 2008, 12:45 AM

If I posted some of the stuff I made and done I'd be busted for something in this day and age. I loved Chemistry and blowing stuff up, back in my day you could walk into a gun store and buy a tin of flash powder for $15 no questions asked.

Now a days, I dunno, haven't been near a gun store for 20+ years.

I also used to make rockets, they'd go 1000' easy straight up leaving huge trail of smoke ... made them out of the cardboard rolls in the middle of those fabrics that are on display and on racks etc.

Had all types of stuff for every occasion.

Therrin · 9th January 2008, 12:57 AM

"Had all types of stuff for every occasion."

Sounds a little like my shed, Ekka =)

I was gonna say "it's not like I'm a gun nut". But that may not be quite true. I just think that having a line-launching system would be pretty cool to gain access to stuff that I couldn't throw to. I know you guy's use big shots and such, but if this thing will throw a line several times as far... well, <shrugs> that'd be pretty cool wouldn't it?

Between being a tree climber, rock climber, a divemaster, wreck diver, deep diver, shooter, hunter, reloader, atv enthusiast, pyro/explosives film tech, and streetbike rider.... I decided that if there's anything in life worth living for, or worth doing, I want to get it out of the way while I'm still young.

So far, I seem to be doing pretty well in that aspect. I gotta thank God for keepin me alive through most of it though, lol.

It's not that I'm crazy (

), I just live my life to the fullest.

Tree Machine · 9th January 2008, 07:03 PM

Quote:

It's not that I'm crazy (), I just live my life to the fullest.

Well, cheers to that.

Hey could ya..... just because we love ya..... on the first shot maybe rig a light line and pull the trigger remotely? It all does sound good in theory, but a lot of miserable miscalculations started by sounding good in theory.

I have concern about the mass of the baseball, the work required to accelerate it from 0 to whatever vs the energy stored in the powder. Also, the hollow between the dowel and the charge. My sense says lengthen the dowel to capacity.

Sounds like a Mythbusters episode.

Therrin · 9th January 2008, 07:09 PM

"Hey could ya..... just because we love ya..... on the first shot maybe rig a light line and pull the trigger remotely?"

Yup! I've got a tire filled with concrete with a 4x4 post stickin out of the middle that I'm going to use as a launch stand, I'll strap the shotgun to that and then use a string to remotely set it off. Thanks for checking though

That testing method is actually per TM 31-210 "Improvised Munitions Handbook" published by the Department of the Army. They actually suggest using a longer dowel also, I hadn't thought about the gap causing trouble... I'll have to think about that one, see if it's a problem or not. The balls I got were only 10c apiece, so I got a couple.

TreeDimensional · 9th January 2008, 07:30 PM

Therrin, the headspace could seriously bulge the barrel. I had it happen when a large snowflake entered the muzzle between shots. This caused,as the gunsmith put it, a compression bulge. Tell you what, I'll swap you shotguns, I'd hate to see you exlpode a nice one.

But stranger things have happened, a guy I know instructs hunter safety. Part of the course shows a shot gun exploding. He basically puts a glob of mud in the muzzle, clamps it to a shooting bench and remote fires it. One time he was using an old Remington, and it took three #2 bird shot to make it blow.

By the way, you can keep your shotgun, it a PITA to jump through the hoops in Canada.

Therrin · 9th January 2008, 07:37 PM

Hah... yeah it's a PITA here too.

I'll rework the headspacing deal.

Also, part of the reason why I don't have as much chance of that happening with this, is that I removed the super-tight plastic wad pieces, and halved the powder. There's considerably less force trying to escape the barrel than there would be with a normal cartridge.

I've got two barrels for this one... I'll probably use the short one.

I actually have two 12 guages, but the other one is 80 years old, all walnut and nickel steel

she's purdy though, so I don't shoot her.

TreeDimensional · 9th January 2008, 07:46 PM

Sorry for the multiple post, but I remembered something after I hit the submit button. What time are you thinkin' about running the trial, Tree World doesn't have an Injury and Death Forum (Thank goodness) so I plan on listening to the Lancaster News.

My wife tends to ride herd on most of my out there ideas, and she just mentioned that gun would be worth between $750 and $1000. Ya know what a big shot is worth? I might add that if you discharge a firearm within the city or town limits, you'll more than likely end up with some new jewlery, the kind of bracelet with a chain in the middle. I DON'T believe anyone has ever been cited for misuse of a Big Shot.

Well, if you can be good, TRY and be safe!

Therrin · 9th January 2008, 07:52 PM

I live on a horse ranch. They do mounted shooting events here pretty often. No bullets, just powder charges. It's a "shooting friendly" city for the most part. There are advantages to living on a 5 acre parcel with neighbors that come over to show you their new guns when they get them

And yeah... close to a grand is about right, she's got a good eye.

I'll look into a big shot. Doesnt sound nearly as fun though =(

Actually, the idea you gave me on the phone, about the scuba tank pressure powered system sounded pretty freaking cool. That wouldn't be as questionable in terms of legality. I need to pick up a shraeder valve for it though. I might switch over to that idea completely, considering the safety factors. I'm still gonna test this thing tomorow though.... lol.

Tree Machine · 9th January 2008, 08:28 PM

Test away!

I bought my 13 year old nephew a potato gun for his birthday last year, didn't go over too well with the rest of the family. It was of the compressed air type, not the explosive charge type. I gave it a brief thought as a shotline launcher, but the BigShot is just too effective to try something more expensive and complicated.

I look forward to seeing your results. I don't think a half charge can provide the 'horsepower' to move that mass very far against gravity and frictional air resistance, but the pull of the trigger will tell.

I'm thinkin a hollow, bottom-end-sealed, aluminum tube with a golf ball as the projectile head. Heh heh.

Your line will slow things also, it's really fat, as far as a practical shotbag line. 'Course, yours is not a shotbag line, it's a shotgun line, so as far as experience goes, I really don't have a clue. 1.75 mm zing-it line, or braided 80 lb test fishing line, maybe. Just a guess.

Therrin · 9th January 2008, 08:36 PM

I chose the thicker line, because I'll mostly be using it on pines. Anything smaller, or something like fishing line, would just break on the bark.
I'll have to experiment with line thickness and drag characteristics...

I'm gonna wrap the line around a big coffee can, so as the projectile travels, the line can spool off easily without snagging.

newguy18 · 9th January 2008, 08:47 PM

Just keep us updated and don't hurt yourself if you can help it and you said I was crazier than you.lol.

8th January 2008, 11:27 PM	#1 (permalink)
Therrin The Tree World Bandit Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Lancaster, Ca Posts: 1,254	12 guage Line Launcher Oh yeah.... here it is. The modified baseball lobbing line launching system. A heavily modified tactical Remington 870 12 guage. A baseball, drilled, with a 5/8" wooden dowel inserted. (used gorilla glue, it's drying now) I'll give it a test run tomorow morning. __________________ Ken Fessia I.T.S.A. Tree Service (661) 916-4703

8th January 2008, 11:33 PM	#2 (permalink)
JayD Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sydney Posts: 886	Re: 12 guage Line Launcher You would be draged away by the police here,..LOL..I really dont think you will have problems with non payers using your launcher..LOL __________________ Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory

8th January 2008, 11:42 PM	#3 (permalink)
Therrin The Tree World Bandit Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Lancaster, Ca Posts: 1,254	Re: 12 guage Line Launcher The left bowl has an empty, primed shell, along with the shot that came out of it. The right bowl has the plastic wadding, along with the powder. I'll cut the powder in half, dump it back in, insert 3 cardboard disks, then stuff it with toilet paper and re-crimp it. Instant blanks The powder weighed out to 10 grains per shell. So I'll set up the feed to drop 5 grains, and use it to re-charge the shells. __________________ Ken Fessia I.T.S.A. Tree Service (661) 916-4703

8th January 2008, 11:52 PM	#4 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,868	Re: 12 guage Line Launcher Isn't the whole barrel of that shotty gonna explode in ya face? __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

8th January 2008, 11:59 PM	#5 (permalink)
Therrin The Tree World Bandit Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Lancaster, Ca Posts: 1,254	Re: 12 guage Line Launcher Nope. The chemical way that shotgun powder burns is called conflagration, its kinda like a "slow-burn" albeit it happens really quickly. Black powder is chemically different in that it "explodes"... it reacts at a much higher rate. By removing the two plastic wads, which impede the flow of the hot gasses from the explosion, you're effectively reducing the power output considerably. The effect you get after that, is just some under-powered hot gasses wanting to escape the barrel. With the dowel in the end, they need to push it out before they can escape, which pushes the dowel to its escape velocity. It would "blow the barrel" if the dowel were somehow wedged or lodged in the barrel, and DIDNT allow the gasses to escape. Since the barrel is 3/4", and the dowel is 5/8", it slides easily in and out. The gasses in this case will just push it out when they escape. Tomorow's test launches will show me just how much power the gasses have. Since I removed the restrictive plastic wadding which serves to multiply the outgas force, it should be more of a loud POP, than a big BANG. Then again, the dowel is soft wood, and would be more likely to fragment and shatter out the end, in lieu of the barrel shattering. After the glue is dry, I'll place a rubber washer at the end of the wooden dowel, then screw a metal washer against it. This should help to give slight seal against the inner barrel, catching more of the outgassing force, as well as to keep the heat away from the soft wood of the dowel. Whatsup, you guys don't learn this stuff in school over there? __________________ Ken Fessia I.T.S.A. Tree Service (661) 916-4703

9th January 2008, 12:45 AM	#6 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,868	Re: 12 guage Line Launcher If I posted some of the stuff I made and done I'd be busted for something in this day and age. I loved Chemistry and blowing stuff up, back in my day you could walk into a gun store and buy a tin of flash powder for $15 no questions asked. Now a days, I dunno, haven't been near a gun store for 20+ years. I also used to make rockets, they'd go 1000' easy straight up leaving huge trail of smoke ... made them out of the cardboard rolls in the middle of those fabrics that are on display and on racks etc. Had all types of stuff for every occasion. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

9th January 2008, 12:57 AM	#7 (permalink)
Therrin The Tree World Bandit Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Lancaster, Ca Posts: 1,254	Re: 12 guage Line Launcher "Had all types of stuff for every occasion." Sounds a little like my shed, Ekka =) I was gonna say "it's not like I'm a gun nut". But that may not be quite true. I just think that having a line-launching system would be pretty cool to gain access to stuff that I couldn't throw to. I know you guy's use big shots and such, but if this thing will throw a line several times as far... well, <shrugs> that'd be pretty cool wouldn't it? Between being a tree climber, rock climber, a divemaster, wreck diver, deep diver, shooter, hunter, reloader, atv enthusiast, pyro/explosives film tech, and streetbike rider.... I decided that if there's anything in life worth living for, or worth doing, I want to get it out of the way while I'm still young. So far, I seem to be doing pretty well in that aspect. I gotta thank God for keepin me alive through most of it though, lol. It's not that I'm crazy (), I just live my life to the fullest. __________________ Ken Fessia I.T.S.A. Tree Service (661) 916-4703

9th January 2008, 07:09 PM	#9 (permalink)
Therrin The Tree World Bandit Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Lancaster, Ca Posts: 1,254	Re: 12 guage Line Launcher "Hey could ya..... just because we love ya..... on the first shot maybe rig a light line and pull the trigger remotely?" Yup! I've got a tire filled with concrete with a 4x4 post stickin out of the middle that I'm going to use as a launch stand, I'll strap the shotgun to that and then use a string to remotely set it off. Thanks for checking though That testing method is actually per TM 31-210 "Improvised Munitions Handbook" published by the Department of the Army. They actually suggest using a longer dowel also, I hadn't thought about the gap causing trouble... I'll have to think about that one, see if it's a problem or not. The balls I got were only 10c apiece, so I got a couple. __________________ Ken Fessia I.T.S.A. Tree Service (661) 916-4703

9th January 2008, 07:30 PM	#10 (permalink)
TreeDimensional Banned Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 385	Re: 12 guage Line Launcher Therrin, the headspace could seriously bulge the barrel. I had it happen when a large snowflake entered the muzzle between shots. This caused,as the gunsmith put it, a compression bulge. Tell you what, I'll swap you shotguns, I'd hate to see you exlpode a nice one. But stranger things have happened, a guy I know instructs hunter safety. Part of the course shows a shot gun exploding. He basically puts a glob of mud in the muzzle, clamps it to a shooting bench and remote fires it. One time he was using an old Remington, and it took three #2 bird shot to make it blow. By the way, you can keep your shotgun, it a PITA to jump through the hoops in Canada.

9th January 2008, 07:37 PM	#11 (permalink)
Therrin The Tree World Bandit Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Lancaster, Ca Posts: 1,254	Re: 12 guage Line Launcher Hah... yeah it's a PITA here too. I'll rework the headspacing deal. Also, part of the reason why I don't have as much chance of that happening with this, is that I removed the super-tight plastic wad pieces, and halved the powder. There's considerably less force trying to escape the barrel than there would be with a normal cartridge. I've got two barrels for this one... I'll probably use the short one. I actually have two 12 guages, but the other one is 80 years old, all walnut and nickel steel she's purdy though, so I don't shoot her. __________________ Ken Fessia I.T.S.A. Tree Service (661) 916-4703

9th January 2008, 07:46 PM	#12 (permalink)
TreeDimensional Banned Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 385	Re: 12 guage Line Launcher Sorry for the multiple post, but I remembered something after I hit the submit button. What time are you thinkin' about running the trial, Tree World doesn't have an Injury and Death Forum (Thank goodness) so I plan on listening to the Lancaster News. My wife tends to ride herd on most of my out there ideas, and she just mentioned that gun would be worth between $750 and $1000. Ya know what a big shot is worth? I might add that if you discharge a firearm within the city or town limits, you'll more than likely end up with some new jewlery, the kind of bracelet with a chain in the middle. I DON'T believe anyone has ever been cited for misuse of a Big Shot. Well, if you can be good, TRY and be safe!

9th January 2008, 07:52 PM	#13 (permalink)
Therrin The Tree World Bandit Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Lancaster, Ca Posts: 1,254	Re: 12 guage Line Launcher I live on a horse ranch. They do mounted shooting events here pretty often. No bullets, just powder charges. It's a "shooting friendly" city for the most part. There are advantages to living on a 5 acre parcel with neighbors that come over to show you their new guns when they get them And yeah... close to a grand is about right, she's got a good eye. I'll look into a big shot. Doesnt sound nearly as fun though =( Actually, the idea you gave me on the phone, about the scuba tank pressure powered system sounded pretty freaking cool. That wouldn't be as questionable in terms of legality. I need to pick up a shraeder valve for it though. I might switch over to that idea completely, considering the safety factors. I'm still gonna test this thing tomorow though.... lol. __________________ Ken Fessia I.T.S.A. Tree Service (661) 916-4703

9th January 2008, 08:28 PM	#14 (permalink)
Tree Machine Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 569	Test away! I bought my 13 year old nephew a potato gun for his birthday last year, didn't go over too well with the rest of the family. It was of the compressed air type, not the explosive charge type. I gave it a brief thought as a shotline launcher, but the BigShot is just too effective to try something more expensive and complicated. I look forward to seeing your results. I don't think a half charge can provide the 'horsepower' to move that mass very far against gravity and frictional air resistance, but the pull of the trigger will tell. I'm thinkin a hollow, bottom-end-sealed, aluminum tube with a golf ball as the projectile head. Heh heh. Your line will slow things also, it's really fat, as far as a practical shotbag line. 'Course, yours is not a shotbag line, it's a shotgun line, so as far as experience goes, I really don't have a clue. 1.75 mm zing-it line, or braided 80 lb test fishing line, maybe. Just a guess.

9th January 2008, 08:36 PM	#15 (permalink)
Therrin The Tree World Bandit Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Lancaster, Ca Posts: 1,254	Re: 12 guage Line Launcher I chose the thicker line, because I'll mostly be using it on pines. Anything smaller, or something like fishing line, would just break on the bark. I'll have to experiment with line thickness and drag characteristics... I'm gonna wrap the line around a big coffee can, so as the projectile travels, the line can spool off easily without snagging. __________________ Ken Fessia I.T.S.A. Tree Service (661) 916-4703

9th January 2008, 08:47 PM	#16 (permalink)
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Live Oak Florida home of the crapiest trees you will ever see. Posts: 2,629	Re: 12 guage Line Launcher Just keep us updated and don't hurt yourself if you can help it and you said I was crazier than you.lol. __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related