12 guage Line Launcher

TreeDimensional · 10th January 2008, 10:19 AM

That is a really good observation, your are beginning to sound like Spyder on another site.

I, personally am worried about the pressure rise between the Primer/powder and the Dowel/ball. I understand that the powder load has been lessened, but I wonder what the powder burn rate is. I know one thing for sure, a 22 caliber blank will launch an empty tin can a long way. I also know that increasing the volume of powder really makes stuff happen, I have the hearing loss to prove it.

I reload rifle rounds to bench rest tolerances, and have seen dramatic results in performance from 1/1000th headspace. The offset of the attachment of the line in relationship to the dowel will undoubtably impact the flight of the ball. Maybe he should put some arrow fletching on the dowel to stabalize the flight, I don't know how he could keep from buning up plastic fletching though?

It looks like he has adequate scales to assist in reproducing a reload, I hope nothing happens, so he can try it again. My glass is only half full on this one.

Therrin · 10th January 2008, 05:10 PM

Eh, I truly hait to keep you all waiting with baited breath.....but....

I just got home from a HUGE TD, I'm dead tired, there isn't much sunlight left, there's an AA meeting I *really* wanna go to at 6pm, which gives me an hour to nap. <shrugs> sorry!!

However, since tomorow I'm doing work for my customers out by the *other* ranch I used to live at, way out in the desert, I'll take the stuff and do it out there. Noone will care, most of them have shooting ranges

It'll also give me some time to adapt to changes based on TreeMachine's conjectures. I agree the line is too heavy, I think some of the 2mm slickline that TreeDimensional told me about would be much better. I'll end up flaking out the line for the first couple shots, just so I don't have to deal with spooling yet. Actually, for the *FIRST* shot, I'm not going to use line at all.

About blanks... I just burned some shotshell powder in a paper bowl last night (for chuckles,....didn't get many, it burns "slow", relatively speaking)

Normal blanks are made to sound...LOUD! they're usually loaded with more powder than normal, since there's no projectile to bother with creating overpressure issues. Also, the reason your .22 round has so much power to it is because .22 rounds, not being center fired with a primer, use a contact-sensitive EXPLOSIVE which is dribbled to the bottom of the casing, the powder rests on top of this.

Once again, shotshell powder is *NOT* an explosive, its a conflagrant. (conflagrative?) Two completely different chemical reactions. Plus... there's a bit of wadding material between the brunt of the hot gasses and the dowel.

Fletching is a good idea... but now this is starting to get elaborate. Tomorows first run will just be the "stick & ball" setup, to see if it gets much loft or if it is shattered outright.

Though I gotta say, I'm leaning toward high pressure air powered now. Still though, we're gonna do this thing tomorow!!!! Hope you guys don't keel over from anticipation, I know I'm bummed about not doin it tonight

newguy18 · 10th January 2008, 05:17 PM

Maybe instead of a coffee can an electric fence wire spool.Your on a ranch so you should be familar with it.not as big around as a coffee can but it should in theory create enough drag with one and a half to two wraps if everything else is correct.

Therrin · 10th January 2008, 05:18 PM

how is the line handled with a big shot?

newguy18 · 10th January 2008, 05:19 PM

don't know I don't own one or even really looked at one.i guess just flaked on the ground.

Therrin · 10th January 2008, 05:29 PM

Hey everyone who's shown any interest in this thread.... check this out. Must be what was pictured in Quercus's post.

http://www.mossberg.com/manuals/LineLauncher.pdf

It says under good conditions that thing can launch the line up to 700 feet!!!!!!!

Looks like headspacing must be an issue, they use a full-length rod....

newguy18 · 10th January 2008, 05:32 PM

its nice but I don't think it would work for a climber because of the rod like you mentioned.

Therrin · 10th January 2008, 05:36 PM

how does that even come into it? I'd use it from the ground.... not while climbing.

Oooh! I gotta find a video to show you guys....

newguy18 · 10th January 2008, 05:39 PM

i meant from the ground.It could run into other limbs while trying to land over a particular one espically in pines and other conifers.heres a pic of the bigshot and how it launchs.
Sherrill Tree Climbing Supply: Professional Tree Care

Therrin · 10th January 2008, 05:45 PM

Getting Pump[kin]ed Episode 3

"Produce Punishing"

The testing of techniques to be used in the later small-movie series "Pumpkin Punishing 3: Wrath of the Pumpkins"

In winter time we were going to use pumpkins, but since we needed to test the explosive's techniques, we ended up using watermelons, writing the word "pumpkin" on them, or drawing jack 'o lanterns on them

newguy18 · 10th January 2008, 05:52 PM

your nuts funny though.you shoot watermelons and I can't hit the broadside of a barn.I used to shoot all the time but I'm a terrible shot.

TreeDimensional · 10th January 2008, 09:23 PM

Just like bird and big game huntin', always follow through. I wonder if you could get those blanks in the US? I guess if you missed the limb you were aiming for you might not have to worry, the tree might be crown reduced without leaving the ground. Remember the thread on a new way to collect firewood? Ya Redneck!

Therrin · 10th January 2008, 09:27 PM

You live in Saskatchewan and yer calling ME a redneck???

I never new till recently that it was an actual place, thought it was fictional home of big-foot.

Then I get a call one day, eh?

And he says he's from Saskatchewan, eh?

Well I'll be... I guess it really does exist

newguy18 · 10th January 2008, 09:34 PM

so does bigfoot.

quercus · 10th January 2008, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Therrin

how is the line handled with a big shot?

Very simple... It just lays on the ground.Pull it through your hands and let it drop on a heap on the ground. Be absolutely sure that you don't stand on the line though. A fast returning throwsack is able to crack your helmet... I'd use a throwline instead of the rope...
Why do they use a long rod? Because then the projectile is launched without pressure having to build up again in the barrel wich could cause it to explode. Imagine an egg in a big shot. The egg would stay intact when launched from the seating of the sling. If there would be space between the egg and the seating when the sling is launched, the egg would explode when the seating would hit it at high speed. I can imagine that happening here too...The kinetic energy in this last case would be much greater than it would be when there's no spacing between projectile and sling. Without space it would gradually build up, instead of very sudden....
THe wooden rod could split open too, and therefore wedge the rod in the barrel so it gets stuck. Pressure needs to go somewhere though...
I'd think of a hollow aluminum pipe here wich is welded shut on the base-ball end.
Be careful, because I don't wanna see you die... You're playing with pressures up to 5000 times atmospheric pressure here... Don't really know if I used the proper words or sentences for this here. Sorry for that.

I'd love to see this though...

Therrin · 10th January 2008, 11:34 PM

Thanks Quercus~!

The big shot & egg example actually clarified the headspacing issue for me. I wasn't seeing it too clearly. Now I understand why, when I look at the instructions, the Army also suggested the use of a 30" dowel.

I'm gonna resize the dowel tonight before tomorow's test. I'm not worried about my own safety since, bodily, I'll be behind cover, using a string. Gotta peak the camera out to see it all though.

Since mossberg already has done this, I know it can be done. As far as the experimenting, I'm "reinventing the wheel" here, but can't find test data for it.

Can't wait for the launch!

10th January 2008, 10:19 AM	#26 (permalink)
TreeDimensional Banned Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 381	Re: 12 guage Line Launcher That is a really good observation, your are beginning to sound like Spyder on another site. I, personally am worried about the pressure rise between the Primer/powder and the Dowel/ball. I understand that the powder load has been lessened, but I wonder what the powder burn rate is. I know one thing for sure, a 22 caliber blank will launch an empty tin can a long way. I also know that increasing the volume of powder really makes stuff happen, I have the hearing loss to prove it. I reload rifle rounds to bench rest tolerances, and have seen dramatic results in performance from 1/1000th headspace. The offset of the attachment of the line in relationship to the dowel will undoubtably impact the flight of the ball. Maybe he should put some arrow fletching on the dowel to stabalize the flight, I don't know how he could keep from buning up plastic fletching though? It looks like he has adequate scales to assist in reproducing a reload, I hope nothing happens, so he can try it again. My glass is only half full on this one.

10th January 2008, 05:10 PM	#27 (permalink)
Therrin The Tree World Bandit Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Lancaster, Ca Posts: 1,273	Re: 12 guage Line Launcher Eh, I truly hait to keep you all waiting with baited breath.....but.... I just got home from a HUGE TD, I'm dead tired, there isn't much sunlight left, there's an AA meeting I really wanna go to at 6pm, which gives me an hour to nap. <shrugs> sorry!! However, since tomorow I'm doing work for my customers out by the other ranch I used to live at, way out in the desert, I'll take the stuff and do it out there. Noone will care, most of them have shooting ranges It'll also give me some time to adapt to changes based on TreeMachine's conjectures. I agree the line is too heavy, I think some of the 2mm slickline that TreeDimensional told me about would be much better. I'll end up flaking out the line for the first couple shots, just so I don't have to deal with spooling yet. Actually, for the FIRST shot, I'm not going to use line at all. About blanks... I just burned some shotshell powder in a paper bowl last night (for chuckles,....didn't get many, it burns "slow", relatively speaking) Normal blanks are made to sound...LOUD! they're usually loaded with more powder than normal, since there's no projectile to bother with creating overpressure issues. Also, the reason your .22 round has so much power to it is because .22 rounds, not being center fired with a primer, use a contact-sensitive EXPLOSIVE which is dribbled to the bottom of the casing, the powder rests on top of this. Once again, shotshell powder is NOT an explosive, its a conflagrant. (conflagrative?) Two completely different chemical reactions. Plus... there's a bit of wadding material between the brunt of the hot gasses and the dowel. Fletching is a good idea... but now this is starting to get elaborate. Tomorows first run will just be the "stick & ball" setup, to see if it gets much loft or if it is shattered outright. Though I gotta say, I'm leaning toward high pressure air powered now. Still though, we're gonna do this thing tomorow!!!! Hope you guys don't keel over from anticipation, I know I'm bummed about not doin it tonight __________________ Ken Fessia I.T.S.A. Tree Service (661) 916-4703

10th January 2008, 05:17 PM	#28 (permalink)
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Live Oak Florida home of the crapiest trees you will ever see. Posts: 2,679	Re: 12 guage Line Launcher Maybe instead of a coffee can an electric fence wire spool.Your on a ranch so you should be familar with it.not as big around as a coffee can but it should in theory create enough drag with one and a half to two wraps if everything else is correct. __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related

10th January 2008, 05:18 PM	#29 (permalink)
Therrin The Tree World Bandit Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Lancaster, Ca Posts: 1,273	Re: 12 guage Line Launcher how is the line handled with a big shot? __________________ Ken Fessia I.T.S.A. Tree Service (661) 916-4703

10th January 2008, 05:19 PM	#30 (permalink)
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Live Oak Florida home of the crapiest trees you will ever see. Posts: 2,679	Re: 12 guage Line Launcher don't know I don't own one or even really looked at one.i guess just flaked on the ground. __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related

10th January 2008, 05:29 PM	#31 (permalink)
Therrin The Tree World Bandit Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Lancaster, Ca Posts: 1,273	Re: 12 guage Line Launcher Hey everyone who's shown any interest in this thread.... check this out. Must be what was pictured in Quercus's post. http://www.mossberg.com/manuals/LineLauncher.pdf It says under good conditions that thing can launch the line up to 700 feet!!!!!!! Looks like headspacing must be an issue, they use a full-length rod.... __________________ Ken Fessia I.T.S.A. Tree Service (661) 916-4703

10th January 2008, 05:32 PM	#32 (permalink)
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Live Oak Florida home of the crapiest trees you will ever see. Posts: 2,679	Re: 12 guage Line Launcher its nice but I don't think it would work for a climber because of the rod like you mentioned. __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related

10th January 2008, 05:36 PM	#33 (permalink)
Therrin The Tree World Bandit Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Lancaster, Ca Posts: 1,273	Re: 12 guage Line Launcher how does that even come into it? I'd use it from the ground.... not while climbing. Oooh! I gotta find a video to show you guys.... __________________ Ken Fessia I.T.S.A. Tree Service (661) 916-4703

10th January 2008, 05:39 PM	#34 (permalink)
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Live Oak Florida home of the crapiest trees you will ever see. Posts: 2,679	Re: 12 guage Line Launcher i meant from the ground.It could run into other limbs while trying to land over a particular one espically in pines and other conifers.heres a pic of the bigshot and how it launchs. Sherrill Tree Climbing Supply: Professional Tree Care __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related

10th January 2008, 05:45 PM	#35 (permalink)
Therrin The Tree World Bandit Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Lancaster, Ca Posts: 1,273	Re: 12 guage Line Launcher Getting Pump[kin]ed Episode 3 "Produce Punishing" The testing of techniques to be used in the later small-movie series "Pumpkin Punishing 3: Wrath of the Pumpkins" In winter time we were going to use pumpkins, but since we needed to test the explosive's techniques, we ended up using watermelons, writing the word "pumpkin" on them, or drawing jack 'o lanterns on them __________________ Ken Fessia I.T.S.A. Tree Service (661) 916-4703

10th January 2008, 05:52 PM	#36 (permalink)
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Live Oak Florida home of the crapiest trees you will ever see. Posts: 2,679	Re: 12 guage Line Launcher your nuts funny though.you shoot watermelons and I can't hit the broadside of a barn.I used to shoot all the time but I'm a terrible shot. __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related

10th January 2008, 09:23 PM	#37 (permalink)
TreeDimensional Banned Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 381	Re: 12 guage Line Launcher Just like bird and big game huntin', always follow through. I wonder if you could get those blanks in the US? I guess if you missed the limb you were aiming for you might not have to worry, the tree might be crown reduced without leaving the ground. Remember the thread on a new way to collect firewood? Ya Redneck!

10th January 2008, 09:27 PM	#38 (permalink)
Therrin The Tree World Bandit Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Lancaster, Ca Posts: 1,273	Re: 12 guage Line Launcher You live in Saskatchewan and yer calling ME a redneck??? I never new till recently that it was an actual place, thought it was fictional home of big-foot. Then I get a call one day, eh? And he says he's from Saskatchewan, eh? Well I'll be... I guess it really does exist __________________ Ken Fessia I.T.S.A. Tree Service (661) 916-4703

10th January 2008, 09:34 PM	#39 (permalink)
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Live Oak Florida home of the crapiest trees you will ever see. Posts: 2,679	Re: 12 guage Line Launcher so does bigfoot. __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related

10th January 2008, 11:34 PM	#41 (permalink)
Therrin The Tree World Bandit Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Lancaster, Ca Posts: 1,273	Re: 12 guage Line Launcher Thanks Quercus~! The big shot & egg example actually clarified the headspacing issue for me. I wasn't seeing it too clearly. Now I understand why, when I look at the instructions, the Army also suggested the use of a 30" dowel. I'm gonna resize the dowel tonight before tomorow's test. I'm not worried about my own safety since, bodily, I'll be behind cover, using a string. Gotta peak the camera out to see it all though. Since mossberg already has done this, I know it can be done. As far as the experimenting, I'm "reinventing the wheel" here, but can't find test data for it. Can't wait for the launch! __________________ Ken Fessia I.T.S.A. Tree Service (661) 916-4703