Types of Biners you use.

Therrin · 19th January 2008, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannyboysfc

Therrin, screw lock biners

Here in the US tripple locking is the law. I hope you have insurance for your yourself cause your begining to scare me as a tree climber.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Therrin

OMG... you've got to be kidding me. I've been using screw-lock biners for YEARS!!! Rock climbing, tree climbing, etc...

Are you seriously trying to say that you guys all just up and got rid of your screw lock biners and replaced your entire inventory with triple-lockers because some person in a suit told you to???
That's pure bureacracy on the part of the equipment manufacturers, and a small amount of climbers who don't use their equipment properly, which impacts all of the rest of us!
That's like saying that before triple-lockers came out that everyone who was using screw-locks was being radically unsafe.

You're also implying, by default, that I don't screw my biners closed. Otherwise they're PERFECTLY SAFE!!
It scares me that you don't think screw-lock biners are safe when used properly.

Alright, I'd like to get a few things straight. Let's take a poll and see what the outcome is.

Vote once for climbing biners and once for rigging, cast 2 votes if need be.

newguy18 · 19th January 2008, 02:45 PM

i voted.

Eric Frei · 19th January 2008, 02:51 PM

I voted too, I climb on auto lock and rig with screw gate.

Many might debate the rigging with screw gate saying often climbers forget to screw the gate closed, too true, but not me however many times when a contract climber comes in they dont bother and I have to watch like a hawk.

I like to use screw gate coz they take more shit, simple. If they get belted around a pair of pliers on the ground gets them undone, but the autolocks gates just break, spring action goes etc ... nowhere near as tough.

I rig with Omega 72kn screw gate biners, I use slings so if a section clobbers the trunk etc often it's the sling not the biner copping the belting, I dont tend to have a biner in the eye of my lowering rope except for smaller stuff.

newguy18 · 19th January 2008, 02:55 PM

alright Therrin I found some info on the ansi for biners.
http://www.safetytoday.com/downloads...20Standard.pdf
ANSI Z359 Update

Therrin · 19th January 2008, 02:59 PM

For those who are "autolockers only" for safety use,

In situations where you'd be tied in using two lanyards,
this can have the result that you're using up to *four* biners that you are clipped in with.

You'd have to keep in mind that all 4 of those would have to be autolocking biners.

Ekka,
yeah, to me the autolockers are more expensive, heavier, and from previous experience I've found that they fail much more often. I have some, I just don't use them exclusively.

Thanks for the links Newguy.

newguy18 · 19th January 2008, 03:03 PM

anytime.

dannyboysfc · 19th January 2008, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Therrin

For those who are "autolockers only" for safety use,

In situations where you'd be tied in using two lanyards,
this can have the result that you're using up to *four* biners that you are clipped in with.

You'd have to keep in mind that all 4 of those would have to be autolocking biners.

I only use biners for my climbline, my lanyards come with the auto locking snap hooks on them.

Still using 4 would not be a problem.

Therrin · 19th January 2008, 03:10 PM

The second paragraph of the ANSI description says,

"Prelude: The American National Standards Institute (ANSI) coordinates the development and use of voluntary consensus standards in the United States. An ANSI Standard implies a consensus of those substantially concerned with its scope and provisions, and is intended as a GUIDE to aid the manufacturer, the consumer, and the general public. The existence of an ANSI Standard does not in any respect preclude anyone, whether they have approved the
standard or not, from manufacturing, marketing, purchasing, or using products, processes, or procedures not conforming to the standard."

I'm completely not saying that ANSI is crap or anything, far from it. I think it's there for a good reason, and that it saves people's lives and promotes general safety, but I don't think that the correct standards are always chosen.

Don't be mistaken with thinking that ANSI is "the LAW". Or at least, it isn't here. Maybe it *is* somewhere?

newguy18 · 19th January 2008, 03:11 PM

I use one biner on my climb line and quick links for my flip line.

newguy18 · 19th January 2008, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Therrin

Don't be mistaken with thinking that ANSI is "the LAW". Or at least, it isn't here. Maybe it *is* somewhere?

in a land called perfect.

TreeDimensional · 19th January 2008, 03:46 PM

ANSI uses two words that are not interchangable. The word "should" means the it is a recommendation.The word "shall" means that it is MANDATORY. The people who put together these documents have input from all aspects of the industry. The document that specifically relates to the treecare industry is ANSI Z133.1 , the real issue is that OSHA is the one that deals with complience. It is my understanding that in the US you don't want OSHA on your..... and I not even an American.

quercus · 19th January 2008, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

I voted too, I climb on auto lock and rig with screw gate.

Many might debate the rigging with screw gate saying often climbers forget to screw the gate closed, too true, but not me however many times when a contract climber comes in they dont bother and I have to watch like a hawk.

I like to use screw gate coz they take more shit, simple. If they get belted around a pair of pliers on the ground gets them undone, but the autolocks gates just break, spring action goes etc ... nowhere near as tough.

I rig with Omega 72kn screw gate biners, I use slings so if a section clobbers the trunk etc often it's the sling not the biner copping the belting, I dont tend to have a biner in the eye of my lowering rope except for smaller stuff.

Same here... although I have a few autolockers for small rigging too.

shaggs · 19th January 2008, 04:17 PM

All screwgate for me.
All steel.
Allways.

TREEMONKEY · 20th January 2008, 12:39 AM

I use Triaction auto lockers on my harness most of them petzel williams. and always steel for rigging usually dual action but some screw gates.

I will not use screw gate on my harness on 2 separate occasions i have looked down at my harness and they have unscrewed themselves one was jarred open a little scare at the moment. ( i know it was done up originally i don't leave the ground with out checking twice.)

Eric Frei · 20th January 2008, 01:00 AM

That's right, standards aren't law however in a court of law if you were doing stuff below that standard then you'd be deemed somewhat negligent, especially if it was human injury case.

What about working to a standard of pruning. If you topped the tree and standards say otherwise then again you could be deemed incompetent or negligent.

So, I'm no lawyer, but be aware of the standards to keep on the safe side of the lawyers I think.

arborjockey · 20th January 2008, 05:49 AM

Aluminum beeners should be checked for cracks! I had a climber x-ray a bunch of beeners and 2 of them had cracks. The screw type are ok but should be used with common sense (no self belay ect...). I prefer self locking but even those arent fool proof. i've gotten lazy on checking them and noticed that one time the gate wasn't locked shut. In tower work it was all steel for SAFETY. oh and keep graphite lube on the self lockers. best bet scenario is to constantly check your beeners as you climb.

newguy18 · 20th January 2008, 05:52 AM

I've never had an issue with the steel screwlocking biner I use for life support.

arborjockey · 20th January 2008, 06:22 AM

I dont wait 4 an issue 2 come 2 me I see that other people have been killed and adjust accordingly

arbdog · 20th January 2008, 07:31 AM

3 way auto is the regs here in the u.k! used to work with a bloke who needed plier cus the screw gate had gone too tight. would have wasted loads of time trying to get him undone in a ariel rescue situation! Glad ive never used them apart from rigging.

Therrin · 20th January 2008, 12:36 PM

I wanted to see how the poll turned out. I'm not gonna look at the results and frown and just say "well screw you people, I'm doin it my way!" Cuz then I'm not learning anything. That'd be kinda a closed-off attitude.

General consensus seems that most of you actually use autolockers for all of your safety stuff. That's cool. I didn't realize the numbers were so high. I'd be willing to switch over, I just didn't think it was necessary.

quercus · 20th January 2008, 08:43 PM

It is a lot safer then screwers therrin, no doubt about that. You have to decide for yourself I guess... But if you wanna do things right,... Catch my drift?

arbdog · 20th January 2008, 10:30 PM

As the subjuct is biners and auto lockers require graphite spay for the locking mechanisms lubercation, i will ask this. Does anybody struggle getting hold of stuff? Its well hard to find around here.

Therrin · 20th January 2008, 10:35 PM

Arbdog,

I don't know about "graphite spray", but around here, you go to the local Walmart (I know you don't have em, but bear with me), and in the section where they have the "key-making" machine, there's keyrings and such and there's always a hanger that has tubes of graphite paste.

Ya might be able to find graphite paste near where you live in a hardware store or locksmiths shop. Specifically a locksmiths. Try that and get back to us.

Eric Frei · 20th January 2008, 10:35 PM

Use silicon spray, better, not greasy or black gooey stuff.

Therrin · 20th January 2008, 10:41 PM

And actually, WD40 works too... we've been using it at the Camp & Conference Center I used to work for for years on our biners. Sometimes in winter it's more prone to gumming up than the other stuff, but if you can't get ahold of that stuff and it's pretty temperate where you are... well, there ya go. =)

arbdog · 20th January 2008, 11:01 PM

Thats what i do wd40 them, when you buy them the care tag states graphite spray not oils. but they get the wdanyway, as even the arb shops say they struggle to get graphite spray.

Therrin · 20th January 2008, 11:04 PM

I'd probably be able to send ya some silicone or graphite spray if it weren't an aerosol. Don't rightly know how that all works with shipping.

However, yeah, WD-40 does work, but like I mentioned, it'll gum up a bit in temps around or below freezing.

arbdog · 21st January 2008, 12:35 AM

will keep that in mind. cheers

newguy18 · 21st January 2008, 12:46 AM

I used to use graphite spray when i did small engine repair for lubing the cables in weedeater shafts but found that white liteoum is better.it is avalibale in spray form at any wal mart.

Therrin · 21st January 2008, 10:06 AM

Newguy,

It might behoove you at times to use some sort of spellcheck function.... Or at least to read over an review your post before you submit it. Especially when the stuff that you're talking about is what's misspelled.

What's liteoum? (and keep in mind, the guys across the pond don't have walmart)

View Poll Results: What types of carabiners do you use for climbing and rigging, you are allowed 2 votes
Climb with auto locking biner	120	80.54%
Climb with screw gate biner	13	8.72%
Climb with either, doesn't matter to me	16	10.74%
Rig with auto locking biner	33	22.15%
Rig with screw gate biner	48	32.21%
Rig with either, doesn't matter to me	42	28.19%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 149. You may not vote on this poll

19th January 2008, 02:45 PM	#2
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: orlando,fl Posts: 5,206	Re: Types of Biners you use. i voted. __________________ Have your say join us today. I ship USA saws out of the USA old schooler

19th January 2008, 02:51 PM	#3
Eric Frei Admin - Australia's most prominant Arborist - prev Ekka Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 10,775	Re: Types of Biners you use. I voted too, I climb on auto lock and rig with screw gate. Many might debate the rigging with screw gate saying often climbers forget to screw the gate closed, too true, but not me however many times when a contract climber comes in they dont bother and I have to watch like a hawk. I like to use screw gate coz they take more shit, simple. If they get belted around a pair of pliers on the ground gets them undone, but the autolocks gates just break, spring action goes etc ... nowhere near as tough. I rig with Omega 72kn screw gate biners, I use slings so if a section clobbers the trunk etc often it's the sling not the biner copping the belting, I dont tend to have a biner in the eye of my lowering rope except for smaller stuff. __________________ Free Online Tree Value Calculator by TreeWorld Free Online TPZ and SRZ AS4970-2009 Calculator by TreeWorld Free Online Tree Surface Area and Tree Volume Calculator by TreeWorld My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist \| Project Arborist

19th January 2008, 02:55 PM	#4
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: orlando,fl Posts: 5,206	Re: Types of Biners you use. alright Therrin I found some info on the ansi for biners. http://www.safetytoday.com/downloads...20Standard.pdf ANSI Z359 Update __________________ Have your say join us today. I ship USA saws out of the USA old schooler

19th January 2008, 02:59 PM	#5
Therrin Former Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Bakersfield, Ca Posts: 2,732	Re: Types of Biners you use. For those who are "autolockers only" for safety use, In situations where you'd be tied in using two lanyards, this can have the result that you're using up to four biners that you are clipped in with. You'd have to keep in mind that all 4 of those would have to be autolocking biners. Ekka, yeah, to me the autolockers are more expensive, heavier, and from previous experience I've found that they fail much more often. I have some, I just don't use them exclusively. Thanks for the links Newguy.

19th January 2008, 03:03 PM	#6
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: orlando,fl Posts: 5,206	Re: Types of Biners you use. anytime. __________________ Have your say join us today. I ship USA saws out of the USA old schooler

19th January 2008, 03:10 PM	#8
Therrin Former Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Bakersfield, Ca Posts: 2,732	Re: Types of Biners you use. The second paragraph of the ANSI description says, "Prelude: The American National Standards Institute (ANSI) coordinates the development and use of voluntary consensus standards in the United States. An ANSI Standard implies a consensus of those substantially concerned with its scope and provisions, and is intended as a GUIDE to aid the manufacturer, the consumer, and the general public. The existence of an ANSI Standard does not in any respect preclude anyone, whether they have approved the standard or not, from manufacturing, marketing, purchasing, or using products, processes, or procedures not conforming to the standard." I'm completely not saying that ANSI is crap or anything, far from it. I think it's there for a good reason, and that it saves people's lives and promotes general safety, but I don't think that the correct standards are always chosen. Don't be mistaken with thinking that ANSI is "the LAW". Or at least, it isn't here. Maybe it is somewhere?

19th January 2008, 03:11 PM	#9
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: orlando,fl Posts: 5,206	Re: Types of Biners you use. I use one biner on my climb line and quick links for my flip line. __________________ Have your say join us today. I ship USA saws out of the USA old schooler

19th January 2008, 03:46 PM	#11
TreeDimensional Mature Tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 446	Re: Types of Biners you use. ANSI uses two words that are not interchangable. The word "should" means the it is a recommendation.The word "shall" means that it is MANDATORY. The people who put together these documents have input from all aspects of the industry. The document that specifically relates to the treecare industry is ANSI Z133.1 , the real issue is that OSHA is the one that deals with complience. It is my understanding that in the US you don't want OSHA on your..... and I not even an American.

19th January 2008, 04:17 PM	#13
shaggs Mature tree Join Date: May 2007 Location: sydney Posts: 454	Re: Types of Biners you use. All screwgate for me. All steel. Allways.

20th January 2008, 12:39 AM	#14
TREEMONKEY Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: ONTARIO, CANADA Posts: 95	Re: Types of Biners you use. I use Triaction auto lockers on my harness most of them petzel williams. and always steel for rigging usually dual action but some screw gates. I will not use screw gate on my harness on 2 separate occasions i have looked down at my harness and they have unscrewed themselves one was jarred open a little scare at the moment. ( i know it was done up originally i don't leave the ground with out checking twice.)

20th January 2008, 01:00 AM	#15
Eric Frei Admin - Australia's most prominant Arborist - prev Ekka Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 10,775	Re: Types of Biners you use. That's right, standards aren't law however in a court of law if you were doing stuff below that standard then you'd be deemed somewhat negligent, especially if it was human injury case. What about working to a standard of pruning. If you topped the tree and standards say otherwise then again you could be deemed incompetent or negligent. So, I'm no lawyer, but be aware of the standards to keep on the safe side of the lawyers I think. __________________ Free Online Tree Value Calculator by TreeWorld Free Online TPZ and SRZ AS4970-2009 Calculator by TreeWorld Free Online Tree Surface Area and Tree Volume Calculator by TreeWorld My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist \| Project Arborist

20th January 2008, 05:49 AM	#16
arborjockey Mature tree Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: hawaii. ohio. oregon. california Posts: 274	Re: Types of Biners you use. Aluminum beeners should be checked for cracks! I had a climber x-ray a bunch of beeners and 2 of them had cracks. The screw type are ok but should be used with common sense (no self belay ect...). I prefer self locking but even those arent fool proof. i've gotten lazy on checking them and noticed that one time the gate wasn't locked shut. In tower work it was all steel for SAFETY. oh and keep graphite lube on the self lockers. best bet scenario is to constantly check your beeners as you climb.

20th January 2008, 05:52 AM	#17
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: orlando,fl Posts: 5,206	Re: Types of Biners you use. I've never had an issue with the steel screwlocking biner I use for life support. __________________ Have your say join us today. I ship USA saws out of the USA old schooler

20th January 2008, 06:22 AM	#18
arborjockey Mature tree Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: hawaii. ohio. oregon. california Posts: 274	Re: Types of Biners you use. I dont wait 4 an issue 2 come 2 me I see that other people have been killed and adjust accordingly

20th January 2008, 07:31 AM	#19
arbdog Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: england Posts: 111	Re: Types of Biners you use. 3 way auto is the regs here in the u.k! used to work with a bloke who needed plier cus the screw gate had gone too tight. would have wasted loads of time trying to get him undone in a ariel rescue situation! Glad ive never used them apart from rigging.

20th January 2008, 12:36 PM	#20
Therrin Former Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Bakersfield, Ca Posts: 2,732	Re: Types of Biners you use. I wanted to see how the poll turned out. I'm not gonna look at the results and frown and just say "well screw you people, I'm doin it my way!" Cuz then I'm not learning anything. That'd be kinda a closed-off attitude. General consensus seems that most of you actually use autolockers for all of your safety stuff. That's cool. I didn't realize the numbers were so high. I'd be willing to switch over, I just didn't think it was necessary.

20th January 2008, 08:43 PM	#21
quercus Mature tree Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: belgium Posts: 378	Re: Types of Biners you use. It is a lot safer then screwers therrin, no doubt about that. You have to decide for yourself I guess... But if you wanna do things right,... Catch my drift?

20th January 2008, 10:30 PM	#22
arbdog Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: england Posts: 111	Re: Types of Biners you use. As the subjuct is biners and auto lockers require graphite spay for the locking mechanisms lubercation, i will ask this. Does anybody struggle getting hold of stuff? Its well hard to find around here.

20th January 2008, 10:35 PM	#23
Therrin Former Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Bakersfield, Ca Posts: 2,732	Re: Types of Biners you use. Arbdog, I don't know about "graphite spray", but around here, you go to the local Walmart (I know you don't have em, but bear with me), and in the section where they have the "key-making" machine, there's keyrings and such and there's always a hanger that has tubes of graphite paste. Ya might be able to find graphite paste near where you live in a hardware store or locksmiths shop. Specifically a locksmiths. Try that and get back to us.

20th January 2008, 10:35 PM	#24
Eric Frei Admin - Australia's most prominant Arborist - prev Ekka Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 10,775	Re: Types of Biners you use. Use silicon spray, better, not greasy or black gooey stuff. __________________ Free Online Tree Value Calculator by TreeWorld Free Online TPZ and SRZ AS4970-2009 Calculator by TreeWorld Free Online Tree Surface Area and Tree Volume Calculator by TreeWorld My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist \| Project Arborist

20th January 2008, 10:41 PM	#25
Therrin Former Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Bakersfield, Ca Posts: 2,732	Re: Types of Biners you use. And actually, WD40 works too... we've been using it at the Camp & Conference Center I used to work for for years on our biners. Sometimes in winter it's more prone to gumming up than the other stuff, but if you can't get ahold of that stuff and it's pretty temperate where you are... well, there ya go. =)

20th January 2008, 11:01 PM	#26
arbdog Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: england Posts: 111	Re: Types of Biners you use. Thats what i do wd40 them, when you buy them the care tag states graphite spray not oils. but they get the wdanyway, as even the arb shops say they struggle to get graphite spray.

20th January 2008, 11:04 PM	#27
Therrin Former Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Bakersfield, Ca Posts: 2,732	Re: Types of Biners you use. I'd probably be able to send ya some silicone or graphite spray if it weren't an aerosol. Don't rightly know how that all works with shipping. However, yeah, WD-40 does work, but like I mentioned, it'll gum up a bit in temps around or below freezing. Last edited by Therrin; 21st January 2008 at 12:38 AM.

21st January 2008, 12:35 AM	#28
arbdog Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: england Posts: 111	Re: Types of Biners you use. will keep that in mind. cheers

21st January 2008, 12:46 AM	#29
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: orlando,fl Posts: 5,206	Re: Types of Biners you use. I used to use graphite spray when i did small engine repair for lubing the cables in weedeater shafts but found that white liteoum is better.it is avalibale in spray form at any wal mart. __________________ Have your say join us today. I ship USA saws out of the USA old schooler

21st January 2008, 10:06 AM	#30
Therrin Former Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Bakersfield, Ca Posts: 2,732	Re: Types of Biners you use. Newguy, It might behoove you at times to use some sort of spellcheck function.... Or at least to read over an review your post before you submit it. Especially when the stuff that you're talking about is what's misspelled. What's liteoum? (and keep in mind, the guys across the pond don't have walmart)

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode