Types of Biners you use.

Therrin · 18th January 2008, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannyboysfc

Therrin, screw lock biners

Here in the US tripple locking is the law. I hope you have insurance for your yourself cause your begining to scare me as a tree climber.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Therrin

OMG... you've got to be kidding me. I've been using screw-lock biners for YEARS!!! Rock climbing, tree climbing, etc...

Are you seriously trying to say that you guys all just up and got rid of your screw lock biners and replaced your entire inventory with triple-lockers because some person in a suit told you to???
That's pure bureacracy on the part of the equipment manufacturers, and a small amount of climbers who don't use their equipment properly, which impacts all of the rest of us!
That's like saying that before triple-lockers came out that everyone who was using screw-locks was being radically unsafe.

You're also implying, by default, that I don't screw my biners closed. Otherwise they're PERFECTLY SAFE!!
It scares me that you don't think screw-lock biners are safe when used properly.

Alright, I'd like to get a few things straight. Let's take a poll and see what the outcome is.

Vote once for climbing biners and once for rigging, cast 2 votes if need be.

newguy18 · 18th January 2008, 08:45 PM

i voted.

Ekka · 18th January 2008, 08:51 PM

I voted too, I climb on auto lock and rig with screw gate.

Many might debate the rigging with screw gate saying often climbers forget to screw the gate closed, too true, but not me however many times when a contract climber comes in they dont bother and I have to watch like a hawk.

I like to use screw gate coz they take more shit, simple. If they get belted around a pair of pliers on the ground gets them undone, but the autolocks gates just break, spring action goes etc ... nowhere near as tough.

I rig with Omega 72kn screw gate biners, I use slings so if a section clobbers the trunk etc often it's the sling not the biner copping the belting, I dont tend to have a biner in the eye of my lowering rope except for smaller stuff.

newguy18 · 18th January 2008, 08:55 PM

alright Therrin I found some info on the ansi for biners.
http://www.safetytoday.com/downloads...20Standard.pdf
ANSI Z359 Update

Therrin · 18th January 2008, 08:59 PM

For those who are "autolockers only" for safety use,

In situations where you'd be tied in using two lanyards,
this can have the result that you're using up to *four* biners that you are clipped in with.

You'd have to keep in mind that all 4 of those would have to be autolocking biners.

Ekka,
yeah, to me the autolockers are more expensive, heavier, and from previous experience I've found that they fail much more often. I have some, I just don't use them exclusively.

Thanks for the links Newguy.

newguy18 · 18th January 2008, 09:03 PM

anytime.

dannyboysfc · 18th January 2008, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Therrin

For those who are "autolockers only" for safety use,

In situations where you'd be tied in using two lanyards,
this can have the result that you're using up to *four* biners that you are clipped in with.

You'd have to keep in mind that all 4 of those would have to be autolocking biners.

I only use biners for my climbline, my lanyards come with the auto locking snap hooks on them.

Still using 4 would not be a problem.

Therrin · 18th January 2008, 09:10 PM

The second paragraph of the ANSI description says,

"Prelude: The American National Standards Institute (ANSI) coordinates the development and use of voluntary consensus standards in the United States. An ANSI Standard implies a consensus of those substantially concerned with its scope and provisions, and is intended as a GUIDE to aid the manufacturer, the consumer, and the general public. The existence of an ANSI Standard does not in any respect preclude anyone, whether they have approved the
standard or not, from manufacturing, marketing, purchasing, or using products, processes, or procedures not conforming to the standard."

I'm completely not saying that ANSI is crap or anything, far from it. I think it's there for a good reason, and that it saves people's lives and promotes general safety, but I don't think that the correct standards are always chosen.

Don't be mistaken with thinking that ANSI is "the LAW". Or at least, it isn't here. Maybe it *is* somewhere?

newguy18 · 18th January 2008, 09:11 PM

I use one biner on my climb line and quick links for my flip line.

newguy18 · 18th January 2008, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Therrin

Don't be mistaken with thinking that ANSI is "the LAW". Or at least, it isn't here. Maybe it *is* somewhere?

in a land called perfect.

TreeDimensional · 18th January 2008, 09:46 PM

ANSI uses two words that are not interchangable. The word "should" means the it is a recommendation.The word "shall" means that it is MANDATORY. The people who put together these documents have input from all aspects of the industry. The document that specifically relates to the treecare industry is ANSI Z133.1 , the real issue is that OSHA is the one that deals with complience. It is my understanding that in the US you don't want OSHA on your..... and I not even an American.

quercus · 18th January 2008, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

I voted too, I climb on auto lock and rig with screw gate.

Many might debate the rigging with screw gate saying often climbers forget to screw the gate closed, too true, but not me however many times when a contract climber comes in they dont bother and I have to watch like a hawk.

I like to use screw gate coz they take more shit, simple. If they get belted around a pair of pliers on the ground gets them undone, but the autolocks gates just break, spring action goes etc ... nowhere near as tough.

I rig with Omega 72kn screw gate biners, I use slings so if a section clobbers the trunk etc often it's the sling not the biner copping the belting, I dont tend to have a biner in the eye of my lowering rope except for smaller stuff.

Same here... although I have a few autolockers for small rigging too.

shaggs · 18th January 2008, 10:17 PM

All screwgate for me.
All steel.
Allways.

TREEMONKEY · 19th January 2008, 06:39 AM

I use Triaction auto lockers on my harness most of them petzel williams. and always steel for rigging usually dual action but some screw gates.

I will not use screw gate on my harness on 2 separate occasions i have looked down at my harness and they have unscrewed themselves one was jarred open a little scare at the moment. ( i know it was done up originally i don't leave the ground with out checking twice.)

Ekka · 19th January 2008, 07:00 AM

That's right, standards aren't law however in a court of law if you were doing stuff below that standard then you'd be deemed somewhat negligent, especially if it was human injury case.

What about working to a standard of pruning. If you topped the tree and standards say otherwise then again you could be deemed incompetent or negligent.

So, I'm no lawyer, but be aware of the standards to keep on the safe side of the lawyers I think.

arborjockey · 19th January 2008, 11:49 AM

Aluminum beeners should be checked for cracks! I had a climber x-ray a bunch of beeners and 2 of them had cracks. The screw type are ok but should be used with common sense (no self belay ect...). I prefer self locking but even those arent fool proof. i've gotten lazy on checking them and noticed that one time the gate wasn't locked shut. In tower work it was all st

View Poll Results: What types of carabiners do you use for climbing and rigging, you are allowed 2 votes
Climb with auto locking biner	55	75.34%
Climb with screw gate biner	7	9.59%
Climb with either, doesn't matter to me	11	15.07%
Rig with auto locking biner	16	21.92%
Rig with screw gate biner	22	30.14%
Rig with either, doesn't matter to me	22	30.14%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 73. You may not vote on this poll

18th January 2008, 08:45 PM	#2 (permalink)
newguy18 Tree World Icon Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Live Oak Florida home of the crapiest trees you will ever see. Posts: 2,196	Re: Types of Biners you use. i voted. __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related

18th January 2008, 08:51 PM	#3 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 5,673	Re: Types of Biners you use. I voted too, I climb on auto lock and rig with screw gate. Many might debate the rigging with screw gate saying often climbers forget to screw the gate closed, too true, but not me however many times when a contract climber comes in they dont bother and I have to watch like a hawk. I like to use screw gate coz they take more shit, simple. If they get belted around a pair of pliers on the ground gets them undone, but the autolocks gates just break, spring action goes etc ... nowhere near as tough. I rig with Omega 72kn screw gate biners, I use slings so if a section clobbers the trunk etc often it's the sling not the biner copping the belting, I dont tend to have a biner in the eye of my lowering rope except for smaller stuff. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

18th January 2008, 08:55 PM	#4 (permalink)
newguy18 Tree World Icon Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Live Oak Florida home of the crapiest trees you will ever see. Posts: 2,196	Re: Types of Biners you use. alright Therrin I found some info on the ansi for biners. http://www.safetytoday.com/downloads...20Standard.pdf ANSI Z359 Update __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related

18th January 2008, 08:59 PM	#5 (permalink)
Therrin The Tree World Bandit Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Lancaster, Ca Posts: 1,113	Re: Types of Biners you use. For those who are "autolockers only" for safety use, In situations where you'd be tied in using two lanyards, this can have the result that you're using up to four biners that you are clipped in with. You'd have to keep in mind that all 4 of those would have to be autolocking biners. Ekka, yeah, to me the autolockers are more expensive, heavier, and from previous experience I've found that they fail much more often. I have some, I just don't use them exclusively. Thanks for the links Newguy. __________________ Ken Fessia I.T.S.A. Tree Service (661) 916-4703

18th January 2008, 09:03 PM	#6 (permalink)
newguy18 Tree World Icon Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Live Oak Florida home of the crapiest trees you will ever see. Posts: 2,196	Re: Types of Biners you use. anytime. __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related

18th January 2008, 09:10 PM	#8 (permalink)
Therrin The Tree World Bandit Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Lancaster, Ca Posts: 1,113	Re: Types of Biners you use. The second paragraph of the ANSI description says, "Prelude: The American National Standards Institute (ANSI) coordinates the development and use of voluntary consensus standards in the United States. An ANSI Standard implies a consensus of those substantially concerned with its scope and provisions, and is intended as a GUIDE to aid the manufacturer, the consumer, and the general public. The existence of an ANSI Standard does not in any respect preclude anyone, whether they have approved the standard or not, from manufacturing, marketing, purchasing, or using products, processes, or procedures not conforming to the standard." I'm completely not saying that ANSI is crap or anything, far from it. I think it's there for a good reason, and that it saves people's lives and promotes general safety, but I don't think that the correct standards are always chosen. Don't be mistaken with thinking that ANSI is "the LAW". Or at least, it isn't here. Maybe it is somewhere? __________________ Ken Fessia I.T.S.A. Tree Service (661) 916-4703

18th January 2008, 09:11 PM	#9 (permalink)
newguy18 Tree World Icon Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Live Oak Florida home of the crapiest trees you will ever see. Posts: 2,196	Re: Types of Biners you use. I use one biner on my climb line and quick links for my flip line. __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related

18th January 2008, 09:46 PM	#11 (permalink)
TreeDimensional Afterburner is shakin' Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 381	Re: Types of Biners you use. ANSI uses two words that are not interchangable. The word "should" means the it is a recommendation.The word "shall" means that it is MANDATORY. The people who put together these documents have input from all aspects of the industry. The document that specifically relates to the treecare industry is ANSI Z133.1 , the real issue is that OSHA is the one that deals with complience. It is my understanding that in the US you don't want OSHA on your..... and I not even an American. __________________ West Central Saskatchewan ISA Certified Arborist

18th January 2008, 10:17 PM	#13 (permalink)
shaggs Afterburner is shakin' Join Date: May 2007 Location: sydney Posts: 459	Re: Types of Biners you use. All screwgate for me. All steel. Allways.

19th January 2008, 06:39 AM	#14 (permalink)
TREEMONKEY Cruisin' Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: ONTARIO, CANADA Posts: 84	Re: Types of Biners you use. I use Triaction auto lockers on my harness most of them petzel williams. and always steel for rigging usually dual action but some screw gates. I will not use screw gate on my harness on 2 separate occasions i have looked down at my harness and they have unscrewed themselves one was jarred open a little scare at the moment. ( i know it was done up originally i don't leave the ground with out checking twice.)

19th January 2008, 07:00 AM	#15 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 5,673	Re: Types of Biners you use. That's right, standards aren't law however in a court of law if you were doing stuff below that standard then you'd be deemed somewhat negligent, especially if it was human injury case. What about working to a standard of pruning. If you topped the tree and standards say otherwise then again you could be deemed incompetent or negligent. So, I'm no lawyer, but be aware of the standards to keep on the safe side of the lawyers I think. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors