Types of Biners you use.

Tree Machine · 15th October 2010, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by treeshaveneeds

I climb with aluminum screwgate biners, that show red if coming undone.

The rock guys say "Red you're dead."

I'm very much a biner junkie. I have to try every reasonable choice out there, and for any number of reasons, the biner I've come to like most (at least in recent times) is the steel triple lock 72 Kn ISC that Ekka mentioned about 8 pages ago. I mean, I don't use it for everything, but it is the biner I will generally reach for if it is in sight.

I have other steel biners that will do exactly the same thing in the same way, and as far as strength, 72 Kn is a lot of excess strength, impressive, will take any pull or lift you can throw at it. Very trustworthy for life support. Importantly, though, it's just got a certain hand-feel, a smoothness in operation, an ideal shape to accomodate any mechanical gear and not so big, but big enough to take on big lifting slings and chunkier ropes. Key-nose design. You can easily one-hand it open. Mmmmm in all ways. That's all.

Treebeard · 14th November 2010, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tree Machine

The rock guys say "Red you're dead."

I'm very much a biner junkie. I have to try every reasonable choice out there, and for any number of reasons, the biner I've come to like most (at least in recent times) is the steel triple lock 72 Kn ISC that Ekka mentioned about 8 pages ago. I mean, I don't use it for everything, but it is the biner I will generally reach for if it is in sight.

I have other steel biners that will do exactly the same thing in the same way, and as far as strength, 72 Kn is a lot of excess strength, impressive, will take any pull or lift you can throw at it. Very trustworthy for life support. Importantly, though, it's just got a certain hand-feel, a smoothness in operation, an ideal shape to accomodate any mechanical gear and not so big, but big enough to take on big lifting slings and chunkier ropes. Key-nose design. You can easily one-hand it open. Mmmmm in all ways. That's all.

That's my favorite biner in my bag

Alex Metzler · 29th November 2010, 09:57 AM

screw gate for rigging, triple lockers (now osha req.) when climbing.....
I carry an assortment of auto-locking aluminum and steel biners for different apps, trip-lock alloy for split tail set up (less weight) but its nice having a steel snap when u go to throw your line with some extra authority, partial to a steel snap w. a swivel......had to thaw out my steel snaps the other day cuz they were frozen shut! oregon gets cold!!

Brent Ferris · 29th November 2010, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Frei

What are you lowering? Cars?

what is the breaking strength of that?

Working load is about 3000 pounds - don't have to worry is the log is too heavy (unless I'm being stupid) and still know all is safe.

And actually I ordered 5/8 Nylon lay thru a marina, but with an ordering problem, a backup, a demand from the marina to deliver (from the rope supplier) I happily ended up with 3/4 instead at the 5/8 price.

Tree Machine · 1st December 2010, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tree Machine

the biner I've come to like most (at least in recent times) is the steel triple lock 72 Kn ISC

You guys didn't catch that I stated it was a 72 Kn biner. I gave a link. It's not a 72.

OH CRAP!

ARREST this man for misstating a kilonewton rating. LOL

I gotta run......

Tree Machine · 1st December 2010, 10:17 PM

Hey, I have a biner question: The caribiner is rated in three ways.

One way, you wouldn't normally think, crosswise, from gate to spine, like if for whatever reason a biner might get turned sideways and have a tremendous force exerted on it?, I don't know.

The second way this is rated is in standard position, gate closed. This is your BIG rating, in treebeard's and my world, our favorite steel triple lock is a 40 Kn.

Way # 3 is where my question comes in. The THIRD way a biner is rated is standard position, pull along the axis, gate OPEN.

This means what it means. A force rating is a quantifiable tested certain determined force rating and they stamp it into the steel of the biner for you to see. It says, when your caribiner's gate is in the open position the caribiner can withstand THIS MUCH force before failing.

If you are hanging static on this steel caribiner, knowing the rating of the opened biner, knowing your force (weight) to be a small fraction of the biner's potential. and you are hanging suspended on this connector, movement is not a factor because nothing is moving. You are suspended, you are still.

Do you feel comfortable opening the gate?

I'm certainly not asking you to do this or suggest it to be acceptable practice, but purely from a scientific, factual and reasonable place, with this biner, would you?

You don't have to answer, really. From my place of irrational fear, no, I never would. But my science geek says if it serves you an advantage, and your static weight is a fly's sneeze compared to what the biner will handle, then absofrickinlootly why not?

gkn · 2nd December 2010, 10:21 PM

climb with a auto lock ally , rig with steel screws

gkn · 2nd December 2010, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tree Machine

Hey, I have a biner question: The caribiner is rated in three ways.

One way, you wouldn't normally think, crosswise, from gate to spine, like if for whatever reason a biner might get turned sideways and have a tremendous force exerted on it?, I don't know.

The second way this is rated is in standard position, gate closed. This is your BIG rating, in treebeard's and my world, our favorite steel triple lock is a 40 Kn.

Way # 3 is where my question comes in. The THIRD way a biner is rated is standard position, pull along the axis, gate OPEN.

This means what it means. A force rating is a quantifiable tested certain determined force rating and they stamp it into the steel of the biner for you to see. It says, when your caribiner's gate is in the open position the caribiner can withstand THIS MUCH force before failing.

If you are hanging static on this steel caribiner, knowing the rating of the opened biner, knowing your force (weight) to be a small fraction of the biner's potential. and you are hanging suspended on this connector, movement is not a factor because nothing is moving. You are suspended, you are still.

Do you feel comfortable opening the gate?

I'm certainly not asking you to do this or suggest it to be acceptable practice, but purely from a scientific, factual and reasonable place, with this biner, would you?

You don't have to answer, really. From my place of irrational fear, no, I never would. But my science geek says if it serves you an advantage, and your static weight is a fly's sneeze compared to what the biner will handle, then absofrickinlootly why not?

my question to you is why would anybody who knows what their doing put themself in that situation ? if you are that stupid , I really dont need to to explain

Tree Machine · 2nd December 2010, 11:13 PM

It's a hypothetical question I'm asking. And I put conditions, like nothing is moving, and it's just your weight, biner is steel and biner carries some outrageous force rating.

Realistically, if you're hanging suspended, the gate can be opened, and then closed, and there is no change of any sort. The gate itself plays no part in the strength of the biner, until the force reaches the 'open-gate rating. In a pull-test, at that point the biner will begin to deform, stretching lengthwise a fraction until it meets the tolerance of the gate and then it stops and then will continue up to it's minimum rated breaking strength at somewhere around 9,000 lbs and catastrophic, near-xpolosive failure will happen. This is an indoor test setting, I don't know if you could do that to a biner in the field, short of snatch-strapping a semi truck out of a ditch with a caterpillar.

So hang there, suspended and motionless with your full weight (~0.74 KN) on this biner.
Open the gate, and then let it close.
Open it a second time and let it close.
Now do this 10,000 more times, opening and then closing a 40Kn steel caribiner gate.

At the 10,000th repetition, I guarantee you that you will still be hanging suspended on that connector.

So it's not a matter of why you would, I can come up with various reasons, hypothetical situations, mostly though, it boils down to the question, if you had to, could you?

sir_nick2 · 2nd February 2011, 08:33 PM

Should shackles have been included in the rigging option? I always rig with shackles seen too many carabiners go twang!

Alex Metzler · 3rd February 2011, 02:35 AM

If im doin any serious rigging or heavy lifting (above 1000lbs) i use an eye to eye sling and sometimes a clevis, maybe a hard core steel screw gate.
nylon straps work great, take a beating and are quick and easy to use, theyre realativley heavy ill admit.....we have two cranes - a 15 ton and a 25 ton, and we dont have a capstan or a lowering/lifting device....

Tree Machine · 10th February 2011, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sir_nick2

I always rig with shackles seen too many carabiners go twang!

Ha ha ha!

Joshua Rugg · 9th April 2011, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tree Machine

Ha ha ha!

wanna know why that broke?? because its KONG!!!!

i use aluminum triple locking carabiners for climbing and then i use steel snaps for lanyards.

for rigging i like to use steel screw gates. i have 20 non locking carabiners for my zipline setup.

Treebeard · 2nd May 2011, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tree Machine

Hey, I have a biner question: The caribiner is rated in three ways.

One way, you wouldn't normally think, crosswise, from gate to spine, like if for whatever reason a biner might get turned sideways and have a tremendous force exerted on it?, I don't know.

The second way this is rated is in standard position, gate closed. This is your BIG rating, in treebeard's and my world, our favorite steel triple lock is a 40 Kn.

Way # 3 is where my question comes in. The THIRD way a biner is rated is standard position, pull along the axis, gate OPEN.

This means what it means. A force rating is a quantifiable tested certain determined force rating and they stamp it into the steel of the biner for you to see. It says, when your caribiner's gate is in the open position the caribiner can withstand THIS MUCH force before failing.

If you are hanging static on this steel caribiner, knowing the rating of the opened biner, knowing your force (weight) to be a small fraction of the biner's potential. and you are hanging suspended on this connector, movement is not a factor because nothing is moving. You are suspended, you are still.

Do you feel comfortable opening the gate?

I'm certainly not asking you to do this or suggest it to be acceptable practice, but purely from a scientific, factual and reasonable place, with this biner, would you?

You don't have to answer, really. From my place of irrational fear, no, I never would. But my science geek says if it serves you an advantage, and your static weight is a fly's sneeze compared to what the biner will handle, then absofrickinlootly why not?

If I didn't trust the gate open rating then I wouldn't trust the gate closed rating. Would you just hang the with your gate closed and trust the biner to hold you?

NHlocal · 18th July 2011, 12:36 PM

Hello,
I,m kinda new on the site but not so new to tree work. I know the
question is auto-lock or screw type, what about the gate closure point,
keyhole, pin-type, etc., what's best???

(I like keyhole, doesn't snag rope or cord). I use auto-lock to climb. Work safe.

NHlocal.

Brent Ferris · 20th July 2011, 03:03 PM

The best biner is the one you are most comfortable working with, and believe you can trust for the job you use the biner for. Check the other posts. Many biners have been described.

I personally like the screwgate biner, with the band of red that shows when the screw is undone.

NHlocal · 8th September 2011, 07:40 AM

Hello

,

Thanks for the reply. I always appreciate
suggestions/recommendations from someone who's been " hanging around"
longer than I have......................................................

no seriously,
I'm always trying to learn more to become better, thanks again.

Work safe.

NHlocal.

mtbisgood · 23rd September 2011, 12:18 AM

you know this industy is going backwards when there is a huge discussion of what type of karabiner your using

Tony Knight · 24th September 2011, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtbisgood

you know this industy is going backwards when there is a huge discussion of what type of karabiner your using

Generalising sought of a comment for a vast world wide industry developed over many years. I beginning to sensing that you don't have a positive outlook for your work?

Regards

Tony

mtbisgood · 27th September 2011, 10:17 PM

and you would be right.

my next step is a qualification in rope access and hopefully land a job in the oil and gas industry. aboriculture pays so unfairly for the tickets we hold, and what we do on a daily basis

Tony Knight · 27th September 2011, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtbisgood

and you would be right.

my next step is a qualification in rope access and hopefully land a job in the oil and gas industry. aboriculture pays so unfairly for the tickets we hold, and what we do on a daily basis

Good luck with that, it sounds to me you like the rope work but not the wages and trees. Your certainly have to have passion to remain committed.

Regards

Tony

Leayton Dutton · 3rd February 2012, 07:00 PM

Hello

For climbing we use trilock beaners, for rigging the boss and our leading hand recommend screw gate steelies of 40kn and above. My tafe instructor has stated that I wont pass if I use any beaners for rigging at all. He states they should be removed from rigging and in their place d shackles are to be used, and tie the rope off around the branch to be lowered. He has many horror stories and pictures of beaners failing in rigging.

Cheers

Leayton

Joshua Rugg · 21st February 2012, 07:24 AM

i trust the big 3/8 screw links over carabiners for rigging any day. my 3/8 links have a WLL of 3,300 pounds

View Poll Results: What types of carabiners do you use for climbing and rigging, you are allowed 2 votes
Climb with auto locking biner	142	80.23%
Climb with screw gate biner	18	10.17%
Climb with either, doesn't matter to me	18	10.17%
Rig with auto locking biner	40	22.60%
Rig with screw gate biner	57	32.20%
Rig with either, doesn't matter to me	48	27.12%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 177. You may not vote on this poll

29th November 2010, 09:57 AM	#243
Alex Metzler Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: eugene oregon Posts: 90	Re: Types of Biners you use. screw gate for rigging, triple lockers (now osha req.) when climbing..... I carry an assortment of auto-locking aluminum and steel biners for different apps, trip-lock alloy for split tail set up (less weight) but its nice having a steel snap when u go to throw your line with some extra authority, partial to a steel snap w. a swivel......had to thaw out my steel snaps the other day cuz they were frozen shut! oregon gets cold!!

1st December 2010, 10:17 PM	#246
Tree Machine Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 952	Re: Types of Biners you use. Hey, I have a biner question: The caribiner is rated in three ways. One way, you wouldn't normally think, crosswise, from gate to spine, like if for whatever reason a biner might get turned sideways and have a tremendous force exerted on it?, I don't know. The second way this is rated is in standard position, gate closed. This is your BIG rating, in treebeard's and my world, our favorite steel triple lock is a 40 Kn. Way # 3 is where my question comes in. The THIRD way a biner is rated is standard position, pull along the axis, gate OPEN. This means what it means. A force rating is a quantifiable tested certain determined force rating and they stamp it into the steel of the biner for you to see. It says, when your caribiner's gate is in the open position the caribiner can withstand THIS MUCH force before failing. If you are hanging static on this steel caribiner, knowing the rating of the opened biner, knowing your force (weight) to be a small fraction of the biner's potential. and you are hanging suspended on this connector, movement is not a factor because nothing is moving. You are suspended, you are still. Do you feel comfortable opening the gate? I'm certainly not asking you to do this or suggest it to be acceptable practice, but purely from a scientific, factual and reasonable place, with this biner, would you? You don't have to answer, really. From my place of irrational fear, no, I never would. But my science geek says if it serves you an advantage, and your static weight is a fly's sneeze compared to what the biner will handle, then absofrickinlootly why not?

2nd December 2010, 10:21 PM	#247
gkn Former Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: at home Posts: 14	Re: Types of Biners you use. climb with a auto lock ally , rig with steel screws

2nd December 2010, 11:13 PM	#249
Tree Machine Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 952	Re: Types of Biners you use. It's a hypothetical question I'm asking. And I put conditions, like nothing is moving, and it's just your weight, biner is steel and biner carries some outrageous force rating. Realistically, if you're hanging suspended, the gate can be opened, and then closed, and there is no change of any sort. The gate itself plays no part in the strength of the biner, until the force reaches the 'open-gate rating. In a pull-test, at that point the biner will begin to deform, stretching lengthwise a fraction until it meets the tolerance of the gate and then it stops and then will continue up to it's minimum rated breaking strength at somewhere around 9,000 lbs and catastrophic, near-xpolosive failure will happen. This is an indoor test setting, I don't know if you could do that to a biner in the field, short of snatch-strapping a semi truck out of a ditch with a caterpillar. So hang there, suspended and motionless with your full weight (~0.74 KN) on this biner. Open the gate, and then let it close. Open it a second time and let it close. Now do this 10,000 more times, opening and then closing a 40Kn steel caribiner gate. At the 10,000th repetition, I guarantee you that you will still be hanging suspended on that connector. So it's not a matter of why you would, I can come up with various reasons, hypothetical situations, mostly though, it boils down to the question, if you had to, could you?

2nd February 2011, 08:33 PM	#250
sir_nick2 Sappling Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Australia Posts: 28	Re: Types of Biners you use. Should shackles have been included in the rigging option? I always rig with shackles seen too many carabiners go twang!

3rd February 2011, 02:35 AM	#251
Alex Metzler Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: eugene oregon Posts: 90	Re: Types of Biners you use. If im doin any serious rigging or heavy lifting (above 1000lbs) i use an eye to eye sling and sometimes a clevis, maybe a hard core steel screw gate. nylon straps work great, take a beating and are quick and easy to use, theyre realativley heavy ill admit.....we have two cranes - a 15 ton and a 25 ton, and we dont have a capstan or a lowering/lifting device....

18th July 2011, 12:36 PM	#255
NHlocal Sappling Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: New Hampshire, USA Posts: 41	Re: Types of Biners you use. Hello, I,m kinda new on the site but not so new to tree work. I know the question is auto-lock or screw type, what about the gate closure point, keyhole, pin-type, etc., what's best??? (I like keyhole, doesn't snag rope or cord). I use auto-lock to climb. Work safe. NHlocal.

20th July 2011, 03:03 PM	#256
Brent Ferris Veteran Heritage Status Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,553	Re: Types of Biners you use. The best biner is the one you are most comfortable working with, and believe you can trust for the job you use the biner for. Check the other posts. Many biners have been described. I personally like the screwgate biner, with the band of red that shows when the screw is undone. __________________ My business: Tree Pruning and Removals -- Strump Removals -- Advice -- Consulting -- Arborist Reports Consulting Forester If you want an honest opinion, call Brent Ferris...because, Trees want to Live Too ! We do great jobs, even in small yards. Free Estimates Oakville to Oshawa - North to Bradford (Will travel further if cost of travelling covered) Email -- treeshaveneeds@3web.com Cell 416-460-5704

8th September 2011, 07:40 AM	#257
NHlocal Sappling Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: New Hampshire, USA Posts: 41	Re: Types of Biners you use. Hello, Thanks for the reply. I always appreciate suggestions/recommendations from someone who's been " hanging around" longer than I have...................................................... no seriously, I'm always trying to learn more to become better, thanks again. Work safe. NHlocal.

23rd September 2011, 12:18 AM	#258
mtbisgood Sappling Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: victoria Posts: 12	Re: Types of Biners you use. you know this industy is going backwards when there is a huge discussion of what type of karabiner your using

27th September 2011, 10:17 PM	#260
mtbisgood Sappling Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: victoria Posts: 12	Re: Types of Biners you use. and you would be right. my next step is a qualification in rope access and hopefully land a job in the oil and gas industry. aboriculture pays so unfairly for the tickets we hold, and what we do on a daily basis

3rd February 2012, 07:00 PM	#262
Leayton Dutton Sappling Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Queensland Posts: 9	Re: Types of Biners you use. Hello For climbing we use trilock beaners, for rigging the boss and our leading hand recommend screw gate steelies of 40kn and above. My tafe instructor has stated that I wont pass if I use any beaners for rigging at all. He states they should be removed from rigging and in their place d shackles are to be used, and tie the rope off around the branch to be lowered. He has many horror stories and pictures of beaners failing in rigging. Cheers Leayton

21st February 2012, 07:24 AM	#263
Joshua Rugg Mature tree Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: maui, hawaii Posts: 285	Re: Types of Biners you use. i trust the big 3/8 screw links over carabiners for rigging any day. my 3/8 links have a WLL of 3,300 pounds __________________ Stihl MS192T 14" MS200T 16" MS261 16" MS440 25" Husqvarna 359 20" 394XP 32" Poulan P3314 14" ( new hire/groundy saw)

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