Types of Biners you use.

Bermy · 9th April 2008, 03:23 AM

Here is the picture of my quad lock on my lanyard, with a regular triple lock next to it for comparison:

It is actually an ISC...(ISC/DMM were started by the same chap) I got it in 2004.

Newguy18, I have it on the lanyard for just that reason, it doesn't get opened very much at all, mind you, the action is quite smooth when I do have to open it, not as tricky as you might think.

Aerial · 9th April 2008, 09:14 PM

Great thread, a real eye opener for a rookie. The videos are great work!

I voted auto locking for rigging as the SALA SRL has one on it, but after voting I don't think it's a 'biner at all, (if it is, it's a great big one).

And screw locking for climbing since I bought two steel screw locking 'biners for my gear. (30 kN)

Now I find out that I am operating out of code if I use them, yet the videos seem to suggest that they might be safer in tree work. That makes it a pretty hard choice for me.

Aerial

Therrin · 10th April 2008, 03:09 AM

Aerial,

I suffered a bit of headache over this thread (or more so, the topic).

If the thing on your SALA "looks" like a normal autolocking biner, but it's bigger... it just might be one. Can you post a picture of it up in here? It certainly fits for this thread, and I'd like to see it.

However, it might be more of a auto-locking snap hook. That's a device which you have to squeeze a lever on the back side of in order to open the gate for the hook on the front side. They're very common with work positioning lanyards and fall arrest in other industries.

As far as the screw locking biners go. If you're using auto's for rigging, and screwlocks for climbing... You're doin it backwards. If you read this thread from start to finish you'll see that I used screw-locks for climbing and either for rigging, and it's been a long road to trudge trying to convince anyone that it's an acceptable practice (mainly... because its not

)

(if you tell people that you're using your previous rigging auto's for your climbing now, you'll catch hell for it. Biners which have been used for rigging should NEVER be used for climbing)

Jury's still out on whether I'll be contacting ANSI to complain about the screw-lockers. They're a big bureacratic machine, and I don't have the energy to fuss about it. It irks me that there are people writing rules for our industry who probably have never BEEN in a tree though. I'm pretty sure that should invalidate any opinion they have.

At the end, the most that you can really pull from this thread, in my opinion, is what Bermy said about evaluating risk. That goes hand in hand with never trusting that your auto's have closed themselves though. Make a habit of always checking and it will become routine.

Biner's are a good place to start, but I'm sure it's the least of your worries as far as operating out of code. Make sure you've got your PPE in place when you operate too.

Oh yes, make sure when you are making your gear inspections that you don't forget to pull all the line out of that SALA SLR gadget you insist on using, and checking it thoroughly for wear.

Aerial · 10th April 2008, 06:10 AM

I'm multitasking right now so can't post more but here's the photos:

Comments or instruction on the use of each item are welcomed.

Aerial

newguy18 · 10th April 2008, 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Therrin

Aerial,

I suffered a bit of headache over this thread (or more so, the topic).

If the thing on your SALA "looks" like a normal autolocking biner, but it's bigger... it just might be one. Can you post a picture of it up in here? It certainly fits for this thread, and I'd like to see it.

However, it might be more of a auto-locking snap hook. That's a device which you have to squeeze a lever on the back side of in order to open the gate for the hook on the front side. They're very common with work positioning lanyards and fall arrest in other industries.

As far as the screw locking biners go. If you're using auto's for rigging, and screwlocks for climbing... You're doin it backwards. If you read this thread from start to finish you'll see that I used screw-locks for climbing and either for rigging, and it's been a long road to trudge trying to convince anyone that it's an acceptable practice (mainly... because its not

)

(if you tell people that you're using your previous rigging auto's for your climbing now, you'll catch hell for it. Biners which have been used for rigging should NEVER be used for climbing)

Jury's still out on whether I'll be contacting ANSI to complain about the screw-lockers. They're a big bureacratic machine, and I don't have the energy to fuss about it. It irks me that there are people writing rules for our industry who probably have never BEEN in a tree though. I'm pretty sure that should invalidate any opinion they have.

At the end, the most that you can really pull from this thread, in my opinion, is what Bermy said about evaluating risk. That goes hand in hand with never trusting that your auto's have closed themselves though. Make a habit of always checking and it will become routine.

Biner's are a good place to start, but I'm sure it's the least of your worries as far as operating out of code. Make sure you've got your PPE in place when you operate too.

Oh yes, make sure when you are making your gear inspections that you don't forget to pull all the line out of that SALA SLR gadget you insist on using, and checking it thoroughly for wear.

hey I thought you weren't suppose to say biner.

Aerial · 10th April 2008, 06:40 AM

Here's the SALA unit up close:

Starting from left to right in the first photo I posted above this one:

Steel threaded locker, I bought two of these to use for tree work (30 kN)

Fancy AU threaded locker - this one's my wife's key holder she thinks it's pretty so she got took it to be her keyring. (25 kN)

Nice forged AU non-locker - This is my keyring, it has no shoulders on the clasp to snag my jeans belt loop when pulling of for use. (23 kN)

I don't intend to climb anything with the second two, I would with the wife's perhaps, but she wouldn't want me to scratch it up.

Aerial

Aerial · 10th April 2008, 06:50 AM

Starting from left to right in this photo:

Steel threaded locker, I bought two of these to use for tree work (30 kN)

Fancy AU threaded locker - this one's my wife's key holder she thinks it's pretty so she took it to be her keyring. (25 kN)

Nice forged AU non-locker - This is my keyring, it has no shoulders on the clasp to snag my jeans belt loop when pulling of for use. (23 kN)

I don't intend to climb anything with the second two, I would with the wife's perhaps, but she wouldn't want me to scratch it up.

Aerial

Aerial · 10th April 2008, 07:04 AM

I just bought four of these from eBAY:

Quote:

You are bidding on 2 Brand new Kong Aluminum "D" Triple Locking Carabiners. They are appoximatly 4.5" long and about 3.0" Wide. They are rated 30kN which is a little more that 6700lbs.

I hope that these are what I should be using. Comments on their use would be appreciated.

Aerial

Aerial · 10th April 2008, 07:22 AM

I just bought this on eBay for $87.77 :

Is that a good price on this gear?

Aerial

newguy18 · 10th April 2008, 02:40 PM

Those carabiners are what your suppose to use,why did you buy the portawrap?you need to master basic tree climbing and then be taught proper rigging.Proper training doesn't come from watching videos either.

arborjockey · 10th April 2008, 04:06 PM

Mr.Aerial

The big steel biner is used for arial steel work mostly. The gate is large so it can fit around angle iron. In the tree industry I use it for rigging attachments on the ground. I haven't been in the industry long but the lowering device you got on ebay was over priced

sorry Its been outdated by the portawrap. Get a sherill catalog it will have what you need for tree work. My idea would be to put that fall arest stuff, the rope grab (its not the style of rope grab you want) the lowering device and put it on ebay to make up $.

keep the biners

Therrin · 10th April 2008, 04:49 PM

I've gotta agree with ArborJockey on that stuff.

And besides that, selling gear on Ebay is cool, but don't BUY your biners and such there!!! Buy NEW!! I bought a saw on Ebay, but that's another story, and it's workin beautifully, but I had to put almost $150 into it to get it there.

If you're buying safety equipment on Ebay, you don't know it's history. If you've got the money (and you must, if you bought that reel thing), buy your gear new and start fresh.

Somehow you posted three redundant posts. You can click "edit" and delete the ones which are unnecessary.

Are the black locking gates on those red biners plastic or metal? I'd be inclined to shy away from plastic biner components.

And I can't blame your wife, that's a pretty keyring alright!

The HUGE autolocker is also used with ladder rungs.

(NG, the "biner" thing is only up at that conference center. Incidentally, I don't think I'll ever be able to stop saying "biner"... it just rolls off the tongue so easily!)

To you other folks, say, are auto-locking snaps allowable as far as the standards go? They type that's attatched to Aerial's fall-arresting lanyard.
Seems they should be, since they take a scissor type squeezing action to open both mechanisms.
Maybe Danny knows?

newguy18 · 10th April 2008, 09:29 PM

yes therrin those rope snaps are suitable for life support but i don't like them,they tend to be hard to grasp in a tight situation and they can trip open by themselves pretty easily.personally i'd feel safer on a non locking biner.

Therrin · 10th April 2008, 09:40 PM

Oh I'm familiar with them. I had a lanyard for a while that had them on the ends. Once it got too beat up I cut it up but I saved the snaps.

Just wasn't sure if they conformed to the standards. Did you look it up in ANSI NG or are you just guessing? (and I mean for TREE WORKER standards...not normal fall arresting)

newguy18 · 10th April 2008, 09:45 PM

look in any arbo catolgue,they say these rope snaps meet ansi standards for life support.they're exceptable but i won't be caught dead with one again.

Therrin · 10th April 2008, 09:49 PM

Perhaps it was your technique, and not the gear that is to blame?

See, if we had a chatroom we could argue about this all night long without filling up precious thread space. Damn!

Quad's still sittin here. Still baroque =(

View Poll Results: What types of carabiners do you use for climbing and rigging, you are allowed 2 votes
Climb with auto locking biner	70	76.09%
Climb with screw gate biner	9	9.78%
Climb with either, doesn't matter to me	14	15.22%
Rig with auto locking biner	18	19.57%
Rig with screw gate biner	25	27.17%
Rig with either, doesn't matter to me	30	32.61%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 92. You may not vote on this poll

9th April 2008, 09:14 PM	#127 (permalink)
Aerial Banned Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 230	Re: Types of Biners you use. Great thread, a real eye opener for a rookie. The videos are great work! I voted auto locking for rigging as the SALA SRL has one on it, but after voting I don't think it's a 'biner at all, (if it is, it's a great big one). And screw locking for climbing since I bought two steel screw locking 'biners for my gear. (30 kN) Now I find out that I am operating out of code if I use them, yet the videos seem to suggest that they might be safer in tree work. That makes it a pretty hard choice for me. Aerial

10th April 2008, 03:09 AM	#128 (permalink)
Therrin The Tree World Bandit Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Lancaster, Ca Posts: 1,348	Re: Types of Biners you use. Aerial, I suffered a bit of headache over this thread (or more so, the topic). If the thing on your SALA "looks" like a normal autolocking biner, but it's bigger... it just might be one. Can you post a picture of it up in here? It certainly fits for this thread, and I'd like to see it. However, it might be more of a auto-locking snap hook. That's a device which you have to squeeze a lever on the back side of in order to open the gate for the hook on the front side. They're very common with work positioning lanyards and fall arrest in other industries. As far as the screw locking biners go. If you're using auto's for rigging, and screwlocks for climbing... You're doin it backwards. If you read this thread from start to finish you'll see that I used screw-locks for climbing and either for rigging, and it's been a long road to trudge trying to convince anyone that it's an acceptable practice (mainly... because its not ) (if you tell people that you're using your previous rigging auto's for your climbing now, you'll catch hell for it. Biners which have been used for rigging should NEVER be used for climbing) Jury's still out on whether I'll be contacting ANSI to complain about the screw-lockers. They're a big bureacratic machine, and I don't have the energy to fuss about it. It irks me that there are people writing rules for our industry who probably have never BEEN in a tree though. I'm pretty sure that should invalidate any opinion they have. At the end, the most that you can really pull from this thread, in my opinion, is what Bermy said about evaluating risk. That goes hand in hand with never trusting that your auto's have closed themselves though. Make a habit of always checking and it will become routine. Biner's are a good place to start, but I'm sure it's the least of your worries as far as operating out of code. Make sure you've got your PPE in place when you operate too. Oh yes, make sure when you are making your gear inspections that you don't forget to pull all the line out of that SALA SLR gadget you insist on using, and checking it thoroughly for wear. __________________ Ken Fessia I.T.S.A. Tree Service (661) 916-4703

10th April 2008, 06:10 AM	#129 (permalink)
Aerial Banned Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 230	Re: Types of Biners you use. I'm multitasking right now so can't post more but here's the photos: Comments or instruction on the use of each item are welcomed. Aerial

10th April 2008, 06:40 AM	#131 (permalink)
Aerial Banned Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 230	Re: Types of Biners you use. Here's the SALA unit up close: Starting from left to right in the first photo I posted above this one: Steel threaded locker, I bought two of these to use for tree work (30 kN) Fancy AU threaded locker - this one's my wife's key holder she thinks it's pretty so she got took it to be her keyring. (25 kN) Nice forged AU non-locker - This is my keyring, it has no shoulders on the clasp to snag my jeans belt loop when pulling of for use. (23 kN) I don't intend to climb anything with the second two, I would with the wife's perhaps, but she wouldn't want me to scratch it up. Aerial

10th April 2008, 06:50 AM	#132 (permalink)
Aerial Banned Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 230	Crap wrong photo ... Starting from left to right in this photo: Steel threaded locker, I bought two of these to use for tree work (30 kN) Fancy AU threaded locker - this one's my wife's key holder she thinks it's pretty so she took it to be her keyring. (25 kN) Nice forged AU non-locker - This is my keyring, it has no shoulders on the clasp to snag my jeans belt loop when pulling of for use. (23 kN) I don't intend to climb anything with the second two, I would with the wife's perhaps, but she wouldn't want me to scratch it up. Aerial

10th April 2008, 07:22 AM	#134 (permalink)
Aerial Banned Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 230	Not a biner, but will this be useful? I just bought this on eBay for $87.77 : Is that a good price on this gear? Aerial

10th April 2008, 02:40 PM	#135 (permalink)
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Dead twig Florida. Posts: 3,357	Re: Types of Biners you use. Those carabiners are what your suppose to use,why did you buy the portawrap?you need to master basic tree climbing and then be taught proper rigging.Proper training doesn't come from watching videos either. __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related

10th April 2008, 04:06 PM	#136 (permalink)
arborjockey Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: hawaii. ohio. oregon. california Posts: 141	Re: Types of Biners you use. Mr.Aerial The big steel biner is used for arial steel work mostly. The gate is large so it can fit around angle iron. In the tree industry I use it for rigging attachments on the ground. I haven't been in the industry long but the lowering device you got on ebay was over pricedsorry Its been outdated by the portawrap. Get a sherill catalog it will have what you need for tree work. My idea would be to put that fall arest stuff, the rope grab (its not the style of rope grab you want) the lowering device and put it on ebay to make up $. keep the biners

10th April 2008, 04:49 PM	#137 (permalink)
Therrin The Tree World Bandit Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Lancaster, Ca Posts: 1,348	Re: Types of Biners you use. I've gotta agree with ArborJockey on that stuff. And besides that, selling gear on Ebay is cool, but don't BUY your biners and such there!!! Buy NEW!! I bought a saw on Ebay, but that's another story, and it's workin beautifully, but I had to put almost $150 into it to get it there. If you're buying safety equipment on Ebay, you don't know it's history. If you've got the money (and you must, if you bought that reel thing), buy your gear new and start fresh. Somehow you posted three redundant posts. You can click "edit" and delete the ones which are unnecessary. Are the black locking gates on those red biners plastic or metal? I'd be inclined to shy away from plastic biner components. And I can't blame your wife, that's a pretty keyring alright! The HUGE autolocker is also used with ladder rungs. (NG, the "biner" thing is only up at that conference center. Incidentally, I don't think I'll ever be able to stop saying "biner"... it just rolls off the tongue so easily!) To you other folks, say, are auto-locking snaps allowable as far as the standards go? They type that's attatched to Aerial's fall-arresting lanyard. Seems they should be, since they take a scissor type squeezing action to open both mechanisms. Maybe Danny knows? __________________ Ken Fessia I.T.S.A. Tree Service (661) 916-4703

10th April 2008, 09:29 PM	#138 (permalink)
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Dead twig Florida. Posts: 3,357	Re: Types of Biners you use. yes therrin those rope snaps are suitable for life support but i don't like them,they tend to be hard to grasp in a tight situation and they can trip open by themselves pretty easily.personally i'd feel safer on a non locking biner. __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related

10th April 2008, 09:40 PM	#139 (permalink)
Therrin The Tree World Bandit Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Lancaster, Ca Posts: 1,348	Re: Types of Biners you use. Oh I'm familiar with them. I had a lanyard for a while that had them on the ends. Once it got too beat up I cut it up but I saved the snaps. Just wasn't sure if they conformed to the standards. Did you look it up in ANSI NG or are you just guessing? (and I mean for TREE WORKER standards...not normal fall arresting) __________________ Ken Fessia I.T.S.A. Tree Service (661) 916-4703

10th April 2008, 09:45 PM	#140 (permalink)
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Dead twig Florida. Posts: 3,357	Re: Types of Biners you use. look in any arbo catolgue,they say these rope snaps meet ansi standards for life support.they're exceptable but i won't be caught dead with one again. __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related

10th April 2008, 09:49 PM	#141 (permalink)
Therrin The Tree World Bandit Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Lancaster, Ca Posts: 1,348	Re: Types of Biners you use. Perhaps it was your technique, and not the gear that is to blame? See, if we had a chatroom we could argue about this all night long without filling up precious thread space. Damn! Quad's still sittin here. Still baroque =( __________________ Ken Fessia I.T.S.A. Tree Service (661) 916-4703