Types of Biners you use.

Therrin

Aerial,

The wire-core flip you posted is somewhat near and dear as it was the first wire-core flip I ever bought. Works very nicely, especially if you've never used one before.

I hate leaving the bitter end dangling way below my feet, I loop the extra on my left side through a large accessory biner, and clip that to my saddle. Typically if I'm workin something that's only 12-36" dia then I don't need most of it, but occasionally I find that I could use some extra and I just unclip a loop from the biner on my side. I've found that it keeps the tail out of my way.

Word of warning however, I keep the spare loops coiled BIG, only 2 or 3 of them hanging there. It being wire-core, if you continually coil it in any fashion it will stress the wire and could lead to a wire-core breakage. Don't kink the lanyard at all and keep it in nice loops if you can't hang it straight.

Beware the false-sense of courage you can get from using wire-cored lanyards!

newguy18

I jsut spliced my self a nice large 3 strand lanyard.Its about 45' long and i splicd 2 prussics for it.I use a vt for the adjustment.It is definatly easier to work up around the trunks of big oaks and can be used as a short climb line for short traverses.

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Therrin

A 45' lanyard??? whiskey tango foxtrot, over


So uh... what kinda BINERS have ya got on that wicked lanyard NG?

Pics?

newguy18

I'll post pics tommorow,i gotta get more batteries for my camera.I use a quick link on the v.t and my screw lock biner on the eye end.It flips very easily.I made it for when i get out there for my redwood climb with Jerry but decided to use it on a few jobs.

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Therrin

HELLFIRE AND BRIMSTONE SHALL RAIN DOWN UPON THEE!!!!


How is it that you can give me so much shit when I post a picture of my lanyards with screw-lock biners on them, and then you go and say that you're still using them? Grrrrr.....

Aerial

My mistake for not understanding the obvious. I'd didn't understand the relationship between lifeline and climb line.

My approach to learning this is to have myself on belay by a trusted ground man with a "lifeline" attached to my full fall harness, with the D ring between my shoulder blades.

I'll use another rope as my "climb line" and practice self belay techniques with that. You have to remember that I'm a total rookie with tree gear and am not up to speed about even the proper terminology, much less it's proper use. I have a lot to learn.

Aerial

Aerial

I worried about that dangling end, so I only got a 10' line. I also decided to go with the 5/8 line with double eyelets on it:



They didn't offer a 45' version

Aerial

Therrin

If you choose to do it that way, I'd suggest that you attatch your belay line somewhere in front of you.
It gives you more control should a situation arise that you need to manage it.

I was belayed into the tree my first time pruning pines when I worked for the conference center about 6 years ago. It's a good backup system for initial ascents. As I progressed I'd lanyard and biner different limbs to clip into. Wasn't entirely too different from a crag climb, technologically speaking.



I think that flip I got was 12' or 14' The extra footage came in handy from time to time.

newguy18

I never gave you hell about it,that was danny and q.

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old schooler

Aerial

Yes for fall protection I'll be hooked in at the rear, but for climbing and belaying I want the attachment point in front like traditional rock climbers. Again this is my own pants and suspenders method for recreational tree climbing.

I have a climbing belt that incorporates a seat and a second pair of D rings on straps. Are these used to attach climbing lines and belaying equipment, while the set of D rings at the side are used for the flipline?

Here's a photo of what I bought:



Aerial

newguy18

yes the front rings that are part of the seat are for a climb line or belay line.Its good to be belayed by another guy until you get the hang of it but a properly tied tautline hitch will hold you and it won't slip or let you fall unless its cut or isn't tied right.I also recomend useing one biner for both your climb line and belay line so that the rings are together,just to help prevent slip through.

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newguy18

heres some pics of all my gear except for my spurs.
http://i251.???????????.com/albums/g...IMG_0020-1.jpg
http://i251.???????????.com/albums/g...7/IMG_0024.jpg
http://i251.???????????.com/albums/g...IMG_0025-1.jpg

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Therrin

Aerial,

My suggestion of attatching your "fall protection attatchment point" in the front as opposed to the rear wasn't mentioned offhand.

Although I'm relatively new to the tree industry (less than 5 years), I've 10 years experience as a rescue trained high ropes course and rock climbing instructor. I've belayed thousands of people using that method.

Take a moment to listen, please, and assess what I'm saying before deciding that you'll just do it how you've already decided to do it.

Personally I'm not fond of the saddle ya got.... but it's personal preference. I like the floating D in the middle because it lends me more versatility. However, you could still attatch in the front either clipping into those D's with a seperate biner, or put a "floating" loop between them and biner into that.

What happens when you fall off a branch, get hung up and your line is tangled, but its attatched at your BACK where you can't easily reach it? What happens when something unforseeable to you *now* happens, and then you're unable to effectively overcome it?
Always give yourself the opportunity for more control. I think those rear-attatchment points were meant for fall arrest in other types of workplaces, not in situations where you can get potentially hung up with noone around to help you.

I worked for a short period of time, years ago in the RiteAid warehouse out here. The forklift crews all wore full body harnesses, with the attatchment in the back, based on the theory that if they fell, they'd be held secure UNTILL SOMEONE ELSE COULD GET TO THEM with another forklift or similar.
You don't have that luxury while working with trees, and based on the areas you might end up climbing, firetrucks and such may not have easy access. There might not be people for long ways around who can perform rescues.

Give yourself the small chance to control your climbing situation by being able to access your attatchments when being belayed in a tree.

Mmmm, that having been said... I'd rather hang for hours in a seat-type harness than one attatched in such a way as to put pressure on my chest while I'm hanging. Think about it.

Aerial

All good points Therrin, and well taken. The harness I pictured above has the two forward D rings that can be coupled together with a 'biner" and used as a forward attachment point.

I also have a climbing saddle that I have been working on adding to my traditional Miller climbing belt (which I prefer) so that I can have a forward attachment point for my climb line, as well as leg straps to distribute my suspended weight.

Aerial

Aerial

Here is a photo of the belt and harness together:



Besides the simple climbing saddle addition to my Miller belt, I have ordered this for rappelling and possible tree use



Aerial

Therrin

I dunno if you're sick of it yet, but I've got more "advice" and it's all free! I don't charge like the other blokes around here =)


I'm lookin at the one you just ordered and I'm thinking things like "damn that looks like it'll be uncomfy after about 5 mins"

I spent my first years doing Tree work in a ROCK CLIMBING harness. Since, I've cut it up to use as a gear rack, but there are some notable points.

If you're gonna spend some time in something....make sure it's comfy. Nice WIDE back pieces, nice WIDE leg straps, THICK webbing. Easy to clip D rings, (and some will disagree maybe), but for anything of a "professional use" nature, I wouldn't use a harness with a soft-tie-in-point. Yes yes, I use webbing and such for other things, but its *replaceable* and inexpensive in those scenarios. With this, if you bugger it up, the harness is fooked.

I came home alot of days with what was once thought of as a comfy, agile rock climbing harness, and turned into giving me a raw bloodied waste after the day in a tree. They just aren't made for it. (exception of a Treemotion and similar)

I've got something similar to what ya pictured in that second pic. But it's a emergency backup harness ONLY that is always in the truck. Also has a metal D on it.

Think of your comfort mate! You aren't scraping to get by! Get comfy stuff, enjoy your climbs without coming home torn up from ya harness.

Therrin

Aerial, here's a page you should really check out. It'll explain alot.

show ya saddle!



And here's my saddle.



See how nice and thick everything is? I can spend the whole day in this thing.

newguy18

Since i added the back pad in the second pick i don't have a bad thing to say about this saddle.

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Aerial

No, not at all Therrin, any and all comments are appriciated. The climbing harness is added to the Miller belt to give it a front and center attachment point for my climb line. It's actually a bit to small, and the legs being non-adjustable would make it hard to but on over anything but tight jeans.

That's why I ordered the Edelweiss unit in the second picture. To get a properly sized one with adjustable legs. I'm relying on the Miller belt to provide the back support. I guess I'll have to spend a day in a tree with it before I'll know how comfortable it will be.

Aerial

newguy18

Did you start bodythrusting or foot locking yet?

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Aerial

Well I did have a chance to try out the Jumar ascenders and ended up falling to my back with my feet locked into my homemade stirrups. Lucky I never made it more than a meter up the rope.

My wife thought it was very funny and looked about for a stick to whack me in the butt with while I was suspended helpless before her.

I think I know what I did wrong though, I didn't involve the tree at all, except for holding the climb rope up. I tried to go straight up the rope without any contact with the tree.

Once my feet went out from under me I just hung there in a U shape until letting go of the Jumars seemed to be the only self rescue I had.

Of course my feet stayed in the loops under the tension of my inverted weight and i had to get the wife to release the Jumars to get off the rope.

I'm going to have to work on that technique thing.

Aerial

newguy18

Dude i'm telling you,with bodythrusting theres no way you can fall unless you tie the knot wrong or cut the rope.If you foot lock make sure you tie a prusik onto the doubled rope and clip it into your saddle,its not as quick as doing it without the prusik but without a doubt safer.Work on those techniques before useing ascenders.

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Aerial

I've ordered a Prusik line and will be using it before I go any higher than a meter or so. I've stopped climbing until I get the proper gear and become very familiar with it.

Do you have a link for the body thrust and foot lock technique? I have a lot to learn.

Aerial

newguy18

Better yet heres some videos.
http://www.treeworld.info/f7/spikele...k-etc-897.html
jim1nz and his mate footlocking @ 12m
The footlocking takes alot of practice,The bodythrusting is easier to learn.

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Therrin

Whoa.. gettin pretty far off topic here.

Aerial, perhaps you could start a thread and name it something like "Aerial's Climbing Experiment".

Aerial

Well, you might notice these Kong 30kN 'biners in the picture I posted of my belt and saddle.

They are a direct result of reading this thread and are much easier to use than the steel screw type I had already bought.

So an on topic question: What should I do with my steel lockers? Are they still OK for use in rigging?

Aerial

RE: Aerial's climbing experiment - If I had got the wife to video my first attempt at free rope accession, instead of looking for a stick to whack me with as I hung helpless and exposed, then I might have had a good thread starter.

newguy18

Sure use them for rigging,hanging saws,whatever you want.

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Aerial

Just not climbing?

Aerial

Therrin

See, funny thing is.... you could take them rock climbing.

Go climb a thousand foot cliff, do some aid climbing maybe. Scale crevices that no person could access short of the use of special equipment. Hang a thousand feet off the deck... life held in thrawl by the strength of the rock and your technique at placing pieces to clip into.
Get into that and your $$$ will vanish quickly though.

Then again, yours are steel. Ugh, weight. That's out too then I suppose.

Yup, I guess rigging is all they're good for.

Afterall, if a tree climber got careless and lazy with them while they were high enough off the ground to KILL THEMSELF... they could forget some minor attention to detail. And that, amazingly enough, could end with death.
The fault would lay on the carabiner of course, since it's designed poorly for keeping fools out of harms way, and therefore isn't sufficient for tree work.



Happy rigging!

Aerial

I don't think I'll be climbing any rock walls or crevices, I'll be doing a lot more descents than accents. Rappelling is what I'm thinking of trying out, where i can rig my rope to a tree and slide down it.

My steel 'biners should be OK to secure my rope at the top (as long as I remember to screw them shut).

Aerial