Types of Biners you use.

Tree Machine · 27th February 2008, 05:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TreeHumper

We're lucky that there is not the focus on our industry as there is in others.

Yet, our death and injury rate is far higher than in most other industries. I could provide links to hundreds upon hundreds of written, documented cases.

Quote:

We're being given the opportunity, in effect, to self-regulate to established standards. If we do, then we shine as professionals. If we don't then we reinforce a negative stereotype.

I don't know why we're given this relaxed focus when guys are dropping out of trees and killing themselves ON AN ALMOST DAILY BASIS. On a construction jobsite, if OSHA sees a crack in your electrical cord, one guy without his helmet on, they can be fined.

Personally, I like not having compulsory regulations, just serve up the guidelines and I will use that as the standard, voluntarily. But many ignore standards, and probably a great many more are not even aware of what the standards ARE.

Back to the guys falling out of trees, it is sometimes difficult to know exactly what was going on the seconds before the fall, but I have yet to read where a triple-lock steel or Aluminum biner has ever been to blame.

(my impression was, mostly, worn cordage and poorly or improperly tied knots)

newguy18 · 27th February 2008, 05:27 AM

one of my falls from rec climbing came from not taking a couple seconds to tie in with my flip line before recrotching my climb line,needless to say i do it now because i don't want to fall a third time.

Tree Machine · 27th February 2008, 05:28 AM

Tits.

newguy18 · 27th February 2008, 05:35 AM

Tie in twice stupid?

Tree Machine · 27th February 2008, 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newguy

Tie in twice stupid?

No, I was just thinking about female breasts right at that moment.

That's the strategy, aloft, newguy. You're either about to do a redirect, a re-route or cut of some sort of cut. Think to yourself, "Breasts".
Amidst this soothing thought, go ahead and apply a second, independent source of attachment to the tree.

Like the old saying goes, Think boobs, do aasisoattt.

But amidst the professional tree climbing community, we all have a social, subconscious understanding of these silent, breasulatory moments while in the tree because deep down, we ALL want to go home safely every night to a cozy pair.

If you are not thinking about golden hooters while in the tree, you are less likely to flipline in. That's just all there is to it.

This is the original rendering of the legend of TITS on tree jobsites, and how mammarys help keep us safe while in the tree.

Sorry. I digress.

Ok, back to caribiners

newguy18 · 27th February 2008, 06:10 AM

oh thats my problem i'm way to busy to think about that stuff anymore.AT any given moment i got about 50 things running through my head.

Tree Machine · 27th February 2008, 06:15 AM

Well, if you had 50 caribiners in front of ya, we'd have a good conversation.

Here's part of the right side D setup. This Petzl twistlock has been out of production for almost ten years. It's smallness allowed me to clip it in behind the D opening, sparing the D for other connection purposes. I dropped the Kong mini steel non-locker (9 Kn) in captive fashion because it takes up nil room and adds a great deal of benefit. The D itself still remains open to other connection possibilities.

Tree Machine · 27th February 2008, 06:21 AM

This is the attachment for my chainsaw lanyard, a semi-permanent attachment. The threads were doused with threadlock way back when, and it takes tools to wrench it off.

It only comes off during upgrades to the chainsaw lanyard. This little biner, because it is the atachment for the chainsaw lanyard, has gotten more use than any other biner I own. It needs to retire, or be put out to stud or proper burial or whatever. It has served me tirelessly and to utter perfection.

Therrin · 27th February 2008, 04:52 PM

TM that was hillarious!

playfordtree · 27th February 2008, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tree Machine

No, I was just thinking about female breasts right at that moment.

That's the strategy, aloft, newguy. You're either about to do a redirect, a re-route or cut of some sort of cut. Think to yourself, "Breasts".
Amidst this soothing thought, go ahead and apply a second, independent source of attachment to the tree.

Like the old saying goes, Think boobs, do aasisoattt.

But amidst the professional tree climbing community, we all have a social, subconscious understanding of these silent, breasulatory moments while in the tree because deep down, we ALL want to go home safely every night to a cozy pair.

If you are not thinking about golden hooters while in the tree, you are less likely to flipline in. That's just all there is to it.

This is the original rendering of the legend of TITS on tree jobsites, and how mammarys help keep us safe while in the tree.

Sorry. I digress.

Ok, back to caribiners

Theres nothing like using a sexual analogy to get a guys attention.

Does that mean it's only gay climbers who fall to their deaths?

TreeDimensional · 27th February 2008, 06:48 PM

At least I'm glad we're over the racial thing.

Ekka · 27th February 2008, 08:57 PM

TITS =

Tie

In

Twice

Stupid!

Tree Machine · 28th February 2008, 04:33 AM

.......

. Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...........

Really?

I thought tits were.....well, that's off-topic.

aasisoattt. Not the right yell-out?

Well, that would surely explain the odd looks.

Bermy · 5th March 2008, 11:09 AM

Tits aside....

In the UK they have a regulation called LOLER (Lifting Operations and Lifting Equipment Regulation) under which arborists must have their climbing equipment inspected every six months and their rigging equipment every year (or sooner depending on wear and tear of equipment)
You have to keep a log on every bit of kit you own that is used for lifting or suspending a load, yes a seperate piece of paper for EVERY piece! Each item must have a unique identifier number, be CE marked...

Twice a year, every single bit of kit must be independantly examined, harnesses, slings, ropes and carabiners. This is in addition to your normal pre/post-climb inspections and common sense safety checks. So twice a year someone other than you will be inspecting all your carabiners!

The inspector must have the certification from NPTC City & Guilds - Thorough Examination of Arboricultural Equipment, and be independent enough from your business to make recommendation that bits of kit are withdrawn from service when appropriate, even if its going to cost you $$$.

So some places do regulate inspections...if you have an accident with lifting equipment failing, either PPE or rigging and your LOLER stuff isn't up to date, you are in trouble if the HSE gets you.

TreeDimensional · 5th March 2008, 06:25 PM

I am aware that this is an international site, and I believe we are all aware of the dangers of doing tree work. I would even venture a guess that on every job site, situations occur that cause us to dig deep into our resource bag of tricks to rectify. This work experience, combined with education is what keeps us and our employees safe. I think it is obvious that this is where the commonality ends.

As the industry grows, we seem to be struggling with where we fit in the scheme of the regulatory bodies. For workers compensation in Saskatchewan, we are grouped in with the forestry workers and roofers. The only association with these other two groups, is that we work at height. As the forestry/logging industry becomes more technologically advanced, there is little that is done without machinery. That leaves the arborists grouped with the roofers. With all due respect for the roofers, the most serious mishap is the chance of a fall. The arborist is concerned with the chance of a fall, struck-bys, cuts, electrical hazards.......

Sorry, back to the point of the thread. What are WE doing to our industry as far as input into OUR standards. I like to come home at night. I like visiting with family and friends. I DON'T like the government dictating what is going to keep me safe. I understand there must be industry standards, we must comply with OH&S regulations. For me to bring in an inspector for MY personal gear, and keep a diary its use would kill my business. Logistically it would not work in a geographic location like mine. I have a small operation and only have one other worker, my wife. It is OUR equipment, we look after it.

My question is should small operations be compaired to large (more than 10 employees) as far as the inspection issue goes? The thing I hear often is how the larger companies employees don't look after the equipment. Why would they, it's NOT theirs. At the end of the day, it is the employer who is held accountable for the gear and the employee it an accident were to happen. The issue becomes more complex when an accident happens mid-term in the inspection period. Does anyone think that an employee is going to write a memo in a diary when he shock loads a carabiner? Especially if the company has a policy stating this is unacceptable. NO! Or MAYBE, depends on the employee. If the employee does report it, the boss is mad, if he doesn't someone could die.

The way around this is simple. All employees own their own equipment! The rules shouldn't be broken, but a lot of small tree operations have shut the doors because of an incident. This isn't meant to sound like a regulation bashing outburst. It is meant to be a wake-up call for the people that work at height. Look after yourself through respect for the equipment, it could be your own life your saving.

Quintrex · 6th March 2008, 02:32 AM

Good sensible comments TreeD!

View Poll Results: What types of carabiners do you use for climbing and rigging, you are allowed 2 votes
Climb with auto locking biner	62	76.54%
Climb with screw gate biner	8	9.88%
Climb with either, doesn't matter to me	11	13.58%
Rig with auto locking biner	16	19.75%
Rig with screw gate biner	25	30.86%
Rig with either, doesn't matter to me	25	30.86%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 81. You may not vote on this poll

27th February 2008, 05:27 AM	#77 (permalink)
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Live Oak Florida home of the crapiest trees you will ever see. Posts: 2,632	Re: Types of Biners you use. one of my falls from rec climbing came from not taking a couple seconds to tie in with my flip line before recrotching my climb line,needless to say i do it now because i don't want to fall a third time. __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related

27th February 2008, 05:35 AM	#79 (permalink)
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Live Oak Florida home of the crapiest trees you will ever see. Posts: 2,632	Re: Types of Biners you use. Tie in twice stupid? __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related

27th February 2008, 06:10 AM	#81 (permalink)
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Live Oak Florida home of the crapiest trees you will ever see. Posts: 2,632	Re: Types of Biners you use. oh thats my problem i'm way to busy to think about that stuff anymore.AT any given moment i got about 50 things running through my head. __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related

27th February 2008, 04:52 PM	#84 (permalink)
Therrin The Tree World Bandit Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Lancaster, Ca Posts: 1,255	Re: Types of Biners you use. TM that was hillarious!

27th February 2008, 05:28 AM	#78 (permalink)
Tree Machine Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 569	Tits.

27th February 2008, 06:48 PM	#86 (permalink)
TreeDimensional Banned Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 385	Re: Types of Biners you use. At least I'm glad we're over the racial thing.

27th February 2008, 08:57 PM	#87 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,606	Re: Types of Biners you use. TITS = Tie In Twice Stupid! __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

28th February 2008, 04:33 AM	#88 (permalink)
Tree Machine Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 569	....... . Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh........... Really? I thought tits were.....well, that's off-topic. aasisoattt. Not the right yell-out? Well, that would surely explain the odd looks.

5th March 2008, 11:09 AM	#89 (permalink)
Bermy Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Bermuda Posts: 67	Re: Types of Biners you use. Tits aside.... In the UK they have a regulation called LOLER (Lifting Operations and Lifting Equipment Regulation) under which arborists must have their climbing equipment inspected every six months and their rigging equipment every year (or sooner depending on wear and tear of equipment) You have to keep a log on every bit of kit you own that is used for lifting or suspending a load, yes a seperate piece of paper for EVERY piece! Each item must have a unique identifier number, be CE marked... Twice a year, every single bit of kit must be independantly examined, harnesses, slings, ropes and carabiners. This is in addition to your normal pre/post-climb inspections and common sense safety checks. So twice a year someone other than you will be inspecting all your carabiners! The inspector must have the certification from NPTC City & Guilds - Thorough Examination of Arboricultural Equipment, and be independent enough from your business to make recommendation that bits of kit are withdrawn from service when appropriate, even if its going to cost you $$$. So some places do regulate inspections...if you have an accident with lifting equipment failing, either PPE or rigging and your LOLER stuff isn't up to date, you are in trouble if the HSE gets you. __________________ Keep smiling, people will wonder what you are up to! (especially if you're gunning a chainsaw!)

5th March 2008, 06:25 PM	#90 (permalink)
TreeDimensional Banned Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 385	Re: Types of Biners you use. I am aware that this is an international site, and I believe we are all aware of the dangers of doing tree work. I would even venture a guess that on every job site, situations occur that cause us to dig deep into our resource bag of tricks to rectify. This work experience, combined with education is what keeps us and our employees safe. I think it is obvious that this is where the commonality ends. As the industry grows, we seem to be struggling with where we fit in the scheme of the regulatory bodies. For workers compensation in Saskatchewan, we are grouped in with the forestry workers and roofers. The only association with these other two groups, is that we work at height. As the forestry/logging industry becomes more technologically advanced, there is little that is done without machinery. That leaves the arborists grouped with the roofers. With all due respect for the roofers, the most serious mishap is the chance of a fall. The arborist is concerned with the chance of a fall, struck-bys, cuts, electrical hazards....... Sorry, back to the point of the thread. What are WE doing to our industry as far as input into OUR standards. I like to come home at night. I like visiting with family and friends. I DON'T like the government dictating what is going to keep me safe. I understand there must be industry standards, we must comply with OH&S regulations. For me to bring in an inspector for MY personal gear, and keep a diary its use would kill my business. Logistically it would not work in a geographic location like mine. I have a small operation and only have one other worker, my wife. It is OUR equipment, we look after it. My question is should small operations be compaired to large (more than 10 employees) as far as the inspection issue goes? The thing I hear often is how the larger companies employees don't look after the equipment. Why would they, it's NOT theirs. At the end of the day, it is the employer who is held accountable for the gear and the employee it an accident were to happen. The issue becomes more complex when an accident happens mid-term in the inspection period. Does anyone think that an employee is going to write a memo in a diary when he shock loads a carabiner? Especially if the company has a policy stating this is unacceptable. NO! Or MAYBE, depends on the employee. If the employee does report it, the boss is mad, if he doesn't someone could die. The way around this is simple. All employees own their own equipment! The rules shouldn't be broken, but a lot of small tree operations have shut the doors because of an incident. This isn't meant to sound like a regulation bashing outburst. It is meant to be a wake-up call for the people that work at height. Look after yourself through respect for the equipment, it could be your own life your saving.

6th March 2008, 02:32 AM	#91 (permalink)
Quintrex Mature tree Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Sydney Posts: 442	Re: Types of Biners you use. Good sensible comments TreeD! __________________ Heightmaster