Tie 2 ropes together| Rethreaded figure 8 vs Abnormal figure 8

Ekka · 14th March 2008, 02:57 AM

Often the need arises to join ropes together. This thread is focused on the tying of two ropes together the same size/type for life support.

The rock climbing, caving, adventure and rescue people know of the perils in tying the wrong knot when joining ropes for life support. There's also a lot of data and testing and I found a site where there's some great well explained results.

This site's PDF's toward the bottom are well worth a look. They are factual tests, and a range of knots used and ropes also including aged ropes to see strength loss. I have also loaded them here, view in order!

Bushwalkers Wilderness Rescue Squad - Research

When joining two same type of ropes together there's talk of using a figure 8 knot. However there's 2 ways of tying it, rethreaded or abnormal.

Here's pics of the two, AVOID THE ABNORMAL METHOD LIKE THE PLAGUE!

playfordtree · 14th March 2008, 03:17 AM

How many of us trust our lives to just the double fishermans knot and nothing else?

Looks like you could raise the Titanic with that knot.

quercus · 14th March 2008, 03:35 AM

That's true, Playford... But the double fishermans knot is allmost impossible to untie when used in a dynamic rock climbing line whom has been under serious tension. The figure 8 is IMO better for dynamic lines. I don't even use the single figure of 8 loop anymore on a dnamic line. I use the double looped figure of 8 for that.

newguy18 · 25th March 2008, 03:22 PM

Define or better yet post a pic of a single figure eight loop.

Fairfield · 25th March 2008, 03:27 PM

How about the Zepplin Bend? I have started using that to take the place of the 8 and the double fisherman. Main reason is I hated how tight the frigen thing got on ya. Oh ya and I hate putting sticks in the knot!! So now I use the zepplin, pull and pull and pull on it and have problems getting it untied

. If you want I have video of me putting it under a 3:1 test with me pulling on it ( I am 150lbs ) I can post for ya, let me know.

Ekka · 25th March 2008, 03:33 PM

Where you been you BAMF!?

Yeah I use the Zepplin too however this thread was to point out the danger in the figure 8

Most people I know tie it the wrong way (abnormal) and roll out can happen.

Figure 8 is the strongest of all though. I know there's also the sheet bend however can you find numbers? the Zepplin never seems to have test info anywhere.

I have used the figure 8 to join ropes when pulling with a truck. Tied it close to the end of the rope, I call it a sacrificial knot, means if she doesn't come undone I cut it off and only lose the last little bit of rope. I do that because of the superior strength.

Sheetbend will go down to 50% rope strength and Zepplin I think is 65% where figure 8 is 80%, when you got a truck and leaning tree everything matters.

Fairfield · 25th March 2008, 03:42 PM

HaHa, ya you got that right! rather cut the knot at the end of the day then have to rebuild a roof

newguy18 · 25th March 2008, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fairfield

How about the Zepplin Bend? I have started using that to take the place of the 8 and the double fisherman. Main reason is I hated how tight the frigen thing got on ya. Oh ya and I hate putting sticks in the knot!! So now I use the zepplin, pull and pull and pull on it and have problems getting it untied

. If you want I have video of me putting it under a 3:1 test with me pulling on it ( I am 150lbs ) I can post for ya, let me know.

Sure i'd like to see the video.I use a figure eight as the termination on my climb line[except for when i tail tie in which case i use a bowline].I'm always open to learning new knots.

Fairfield · 26th March 2008, 03:34 PM

sorry for getting off topic boys. Here you go NewGuy.
zepplin bend on Yahoo! Video

newguy18 · 26th March 2008, 07:10 PM

Definatly need to remember that one.Thanks alot.

bigshea13 · 26th March 2008, 08:04 PM

myself, i use two running bowlines. strength is not sacrificed, its always able to be undone, and everyone knows how to tie it...even the ground guys.

Ekka · 27th March 2008, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshea13

myself, i use two running bowlines. strength is not sacrificed, its always able to be undone, and everyone knows how to tie it...even the ground guys.

I'd argue that, got a pic? I think the bend ratio where the two ropes meet would be a servere weak point, much weaker than a rethreaded 8 anyway. Bowline are generally around 65% strength for termination use. Figure 8's in comparison 80%.

newguy18 · 27th March 2008, 06:05 AM

I also heard that where a running bowline bites it weakens the rope even more so than a regular bowline.Maybe someone can confirm?

Ekka · 27th March 2008, 06:27 AM

Yep, drops down as low as 50%

But we need to confirm how he's using it coz like we have seen here there's more than one way to tie a knot of the same name.

With a sheet bend for instance you can take wraps before the tail goes through.

newguy18 · 27th March 2008, 06:51 AM

I usually hook on to hitch balls with a cats paw with a stopper knot in the free end for most of my pulling,simple to untie and fairly strong.

14th March 2008, 03:17 AM	#2 (permalink)
playfordtree Afterburner is shakin' Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Adelaide Australia Posts: 340	Re: Tie 2 ropes together\| Rethreaded figure 8 vs Abnormal figure 8 How many of us trust our lives to just the double fishermans knot and nothing else? Looks like you could raise the Titanic with that knot. __________________ I Drink Therefore I am.

14th March 2008, 03:35 AM	#3 (permalink)
quercus Afterburner is shakin' Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: belgium Posts: 414	Re: Tie 2 ropes together\| Rethreaded figure 8 vs Abnormal figure 8 That's true, Playford... But the double fishermans knot is allmost impossible to untie when used in a dynamic rock climbing line whom has been under serious tension. The figure 8 is IMO better for dynamic lines. I don't even use the single figure of 8 loop anymore on a dnamic line. I use the double looped figure of 8 for that.

25th March 2008, 03:22 PM	#4 (permalink)
newguy18 Tree World Icon Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Live Oak Florida home of the crapiest trees you will ever see. Posts: 2,185	Re: Tie 2 ropes together\| Rethreaded figure 8 vs Abnormal figure 8 Define or better yet post a pic of a single figure eight loop. __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related

25th March 2008, 03:27 PM	#5 (permalink)
Fairfield Cruisin' Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Bucks county Pa USA Posts: 70	Re: Tie 2 ropes together\| Rethreaded figure 8 vs Abnormal figure 8 How about the Zepplin Bend? I have started using that to take the place of the 8 and the double fisherman. Main reason is I hated how tight the frigen thing got on ya. Oh ya and I hate putting sticks in the knot!! So now I use the zepplin, pull and pull and pull on it and have problems getting it untied . If you want I have video of me putting it under a 3:1 test with me pulling on it ( I am 150lbs ) I can post for ya, let me know. __________________ Hi yes you know me I am B.A.M.F nice to meet you

25th March 2008, 03:33 PM	#6 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 5,664	Re: Tie 2 ropes together\| Rethreaded figure 8 vs Abnormal figure 8 Where you been you BAMF!? Yeah I use the Zepplin too however this thread was to point out the danger in the figure 8 Most people I know tie it the wrong way (abnormal) and roll out can happen. Figure 8 is the strongest of all though. I know there's also the sheet bend however can you find numbers? the Zepplin never seems to have test info anywhere. I have used the figure 8 to join ropes when pulling with a truck. Tied it close to the end of the rope, I call it a sacrificial knot, means if she doesn't come undone I cut it off and only lose the last little bit of rope. I do that because of the superior strength. Sheetbend will go down to 50% rope strength and Zepplin I think is 65% where figure 8 is 80%, when you got a truck and leaning tree everything matters. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

25th March 2008, 03:42 PM	#7 (permalink)
Fairfield Cruisin' Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Bucks county Pa USA Posts: 70	Re: Tie 2 ropes together\| Rethreaded figure 8 vs Abnormal figure 8 HaHa, ya you got that right! rather cut the knot at the end of the day then have to rebuild a roof __________________ Hi yes you know me I am B.A.M.F nice to meet you

26th March 2008, 03:34 PM	#9 (permalink)
Fairfield Cruisin' Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Bucks county Pa USA Posts: 70	Re: Tie 2 ropes together\| Rethreaded figure 8 vs Abnormal figure 8 sorry for getting off topic boys. Here you go NewGuy. zepplin bend on Yahoo! Video __________________ Hi yes you know me I am B.A.M.F nice to meet you

26th March 2008, 07:10 PM	#10 (permalink)
newguy18 Tree World Icon Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Live Oak Florida home of the crapiest trees you will ever see. Posts: 2,185	Re: Tie 2 ropes together\| Rethreaded figure 8 vs Abnormal figure 8 Definatly need to remember that one.Thanks alot. __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related

26th March 2008, 08:04 PM	#11 (permalink)
bigshea13 Afterburner is shakin' Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: hiding Posts: 388	Re: Tie 2 ropes together\| Rethreaded figure 8 vs Abnormal figure 8 myself, i use two running bowlines. strength is not sacrificed, its always able to be undone, and everyone knows how to tie it...even the ground guys.

27th March 2008, 06:05 AM	#13 (permalink)
newguy18 Tree World Icon Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Live Oak Florida home of the crapiest trees you will ever see. Posts: 2,185	Re: Tie 2 ropes together\| Rethreaded figure 8 vs Abnormal figure 8 I also heard that where a running bowline bites it weakens the rope even more so than a regular bowline.Maybe someone can confirm? __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related

27th March 2008, 06:27 AM	#14 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 5,664	Re: Tie 2 ropes together\| Rethreaded figure 8 vs Abnormal figure 8 Yep, drops down as low as 50% But we need to confirm how he's using it coz like we have seen here there's more than one way to tie a knot of the same name. With a sheet bend for instance you can take wraps before the tail goes through. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

27th March 2008, 06:51 AM	#15 (permalink)
newguy18 Tree World Icon Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Live Oak Florida home of the crapiest trees you will ever see. Posts: 2,185	Re: Tie 2 ropes together\| Rethreaded figure 8 vs Abnormal figure 8 I usually hook on to hitch balls with a cats paw with a stopper knot in the free end for most of my pulling,simple to untie and fairly strong. __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related