Spiking training

Fairfield · 21st December 2009, 01:28 PM

Was trying to come up with a well planed spiking class for the guys on my Tech rescue team. Has anyone come up with one for there crew already that they can give me tips on what has worked for them and what has not. There will be no need for the dont spike a tree being pruned, this is for rescue reasons only. I have been wanting to do this for a while now. This past year we had a compation in Virginia, and sure enough there was a military pilot that ejected out of a plain and was stuck in a tree. Options were to spike up or try a throw ball. I spiked, it was faster plus there was a down poor of rain and 30mph winds that day.... I just wanted to get it done and not have it be a "learning oppourtunity". pics of day attached

Eric Frei · 21st December 2009, 07:36 PM

See, this is dodgey where people aren't used to it or not done it before.

If they are only lanyarded in and spike up on those trees and slip (kickout) then a potential injury.

I would have them get confident spiking whilst on belay first, real confident, like lean back, one foot only in, go around the tree etc.

Now to do a pole rescue they'll need a high point or install one on the trunk. Install a climbing line and get themselves supported on it, transfer the injured/dummy/prop/person etc onto their system and back down they go.

You could try variations of installing a pulley just above and attaching the injured/dummy/prop/person etc to alowering rope, the lowering device (even a belay device or figure 8) on the trunk at ground with a 3rd person lowering the injured climber.

Fairfield · 21st December 2009, 11:53 PM

My thoughts are the same. I was thinking to start off having the guys wear a lacross style helmat and also be belayed with an over head slightly slacked so they have there full weight.

stirmantrees · 22nd December 2009, 08:25 AM

Eric is right. training people who dont work with trees can be dodgy. and he has good ideas.

just a thought. it would be good to know how to rescue someone with just the bare necessities as well. belt, rope, spikes. period.
like if the ground person, if there was one, needed to lower, say the injured person from a crotch above the injured person, for them to know how to take all the rope and do a wrap on the tree to lower the injured. lets face it. sometimes getiing them down quickly, say a heart attack, chokeing or something is vital.
i know i could, if the situation allowed it, make a wrap on the tree aloft myself and lower the man to the gound without even any help from a groundie.

If i needed to be saved i would hope that my rescuer would be able to utilize the most minimal amount of gear necessary or the RIGHT AMOUNT OF GEAR.

me, i utilize alot of old school techniques mixed with some new school techniques. i could use alot of gear to set up something up, or just my belt and a rope if i could get to them.

we have used a small water bottle filled with some water and a very small line as a throw ball when my throw ball got stuck. in the woods, usually someone has a water bottle and small line.

just brainstorming in no particular order.

Fairfield · 23rd December 2009, 01:54 AM

Stirman, I was thinking along the same lines as you as well. It is my belife as well that a rescue climber should know how to get by on min equipment. I can say this about the climbers to be trained for this ( not all will be trained ), they climb all the time, have a solid core knowledge on rigging, and are very comfortable on rope. That in no way means I think they will be comfortable on spikes at first. The main thought behind having the spiking training is for spar rescues that are unreachable by ground ladder, ladder truck, or bucket truck. I know with all the climbers that I have seen write on this site that thier would be a wealth of knowledge to be shared. Keep the ideas coming, it is more then welcomed.

Jeff Darby · 23rd December 2009, 06:24 AM

Hey,
This may be of interest to you all, Four Days of Aerial Rescue

Rescue senarios that John and myself have practiced, practice makes perfect, because with out practice you all will be running around like chooks with there heads cut off in a real life rescue.

1/
have a dedecated rescue kit on site, just waiting with all your rescue gear inside.
2/
Practice various senarios at least once a month your life or some one elses may depend on it one day.

Fairfield · 23rd December 2009, 07:51 AM

Jay, what was some of the pros and cons that you had during your training? Anything that you liked and would do again and was there anything you didnt like that you would change next time?

Jeff Darby · 23rd December 2009, 08:44 PM

Everything we practiced at Tafe was good, practical and safe..no point going up to rescue some one only to need rescueing yourself, One of the main things is be truthfull to yourself, if your not capable and deep down inside you know this stand aside and let the next man do the deed.

I think honestly if your rigging is in the tree already and still good n safe and tree integrity is good,use any means to get the injured man to the ground.

Practice as close to reality as you can, NO assistance by the injured climber, only ground staff.

Remember how and what you practise will near on be what you do come time for the rescue, be unpridictable with senarios...on a real job call out injured climber and note how every reacts, do they run around like chooks, who takes control, does the rescue climber climb 20' just to realise he's left a critical piece of gear on the ground. Time there efforts as it gives you a bench mark on improvment or lack off.

21st December 2009, 01:28 PM	#1
Fairfield Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Bucks county Pa USA Posts: 125	Spiking training Was trying to come up with a well planed spiking class for the guys on my Tech rescue team. Has anyone come up with one for there crew already that they can give me tips on what has worked for them and what has not. There will be no need for the dont spike a tree being pruned, this is for rescue reasons only. I have been wanting to do this for a while now. This past year we had a compation in Virginia, and sure enough there was a military pilot that ejected out of a plain and was stuck in a tree. Options were to spike up or try a throw ball. I spiked, it was faster plus there was a down poor of rain and 30mph winds that day.... I just wanted to get it done and not have it be a "learning oppourtunity". pics of day attached Attached Thumbnails __________________ Hi yes you know me I am B.A.M.F nice to meet you

21st December 2009, 07:36 PM	#2
Eric Frei Admin - Razor sharp and independent 2 X Diploma Level 5 qualified arborist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,811	Re: Spiking training See, this is dodgey where people aren't used to it or not done it before. If they are only lanyarded in and spike up on those trees and slip (kickout) then a potential injury. I would have them get confident spiking whilst on belay first, real confident, like lean back, one foot only in, go around the tree etc. Now to do a pole rescue they'll need a high point or install one on the trunk. Install a climbing line and get themselves supported on it, transfer the injured/dummy/prop/person etc onto their system and back down they go. You could try variations of installing a pulley just above and attaching the injured/dummy/prop/person etc to alowering rope, the lowering device (even a belay device or figure 8) on the trunk at ground with a 3rd person lowering the injured climber. __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

21st December 2009, 11:53 PM	#3
Fairfield Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Bucks county Pa USA Posts: 125	Re: Spiking training My thoughts are the same. I was thinking to start off having the guys wear a lacross style helmat and also be belayed with an over head slightly slacked so they have there full weight. __________________ Hi yes you know me I am B.A.M.F nice to meet you

22nd December 2009, 08:25 AM	#4
stirmantrees Mature tree Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: oviedo, fl Posts: 469	Re: Spiking training Eric is right. training people who dont work with trees can be dodgy. and he has good ideas. just a thought. it would be good to know how to rescue someone with just the bare necessities as well. belt, rope, spikes. period. like if the ground person, if there was one, needed to lower, say the injured person from a crotch above the injured person, for them to know how to take all the rope and do a wrap on the tree to lower the injured. lets face it. sometimes getiing them down quickly, say a heart attack, chokeing or something is vital. i know i could, if the situation allowed it, make a wrap on the tree aloft myself and lower the man to the gound without even any help from a groundie. If i needed to be saved i would hope that my rescuer would be able to utilize the most minimal amount of gear necessary or the RIGHT AMOUNT OF GEAR. me, i utilize alot of old school techniques mixed with some new school techniques. i could use alot of gear to set up something up, or just my belt and a rope if i could get to them. we have used a small water bottle filled with some water and a very small line as a throw ball when my throw ball got stuck. in the woods, usually someone has a water bottle and small line. just brainstorming in no particular order.

23rd December 2009, 01:54 AM	#5
Fairfield Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Bucks county Pa USA Posts: 125	Re: Spiking training Stirman, I was thinking along the same lines as you as well. It is my belife as well that a rescue climber should know how to get by on min equipment. I can say this about the climbers to be trained for this ( not all will be trained ), they climb all the time, have a solid core knowledge on rigging, and are very comfortable on rope. That in no way means I think they will be comfortable on spikes at first. The main thought behind having the spiking training is for spar rescues that are unreachable by ground ladder, ladder truck, or bucket truck. I know with all the climbers that I have seen write on this site that thier would be a wealth of knowledge to be shared. Keep the ideas coming, it is more then welcomed. __________________ Hi yes you know me I am B.A.M.F nice to meet you

23rd December 2009, 06:24 AM	#6
Jeff Darby Moderator - Previously known as JayD Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: TreeWorld, Sydney Australia Posts: 2,029	Re: Spiking training Hey, This may be of interest to you all, Four Days of Aerial Rescue Rescue senarios that John and myself have practiced, practice makes perfect, because with out practice you all will be running around like chooks with there heads cut off in a real life rescue. 1/ have a dedecated rescue kit on site, just waiting with all your rescue gear inside. 2/ Practice various senarios at least once a month your life or some one elses may depend on it one day. __________________ Member: Australian Tree Association Join the Australian Tree Association...Have your voice heard ! Arboriculture, A life long study for some, a passing phase for others © Jeffrey J Darby 2011

23rd December 2009, 07:51 AM	#7
Fairfield Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Bucks county Pa USA Posts: 125	Re: Spiking training Jay, what was some of the pros and cons that you had during your training? Anything that you liked and would do again and was there anything you didnt like that you would change next time? __________________ Hi yes you know me I am B.A.M.F nice to meet you

23rd December 2009, 08:44 PM	#8
Jeff Darby Moderator - Previously known as JayD Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: TreeWorld, Sydney Australia Posts: 2,029	Re: Spiking training Everything we practiced at Tafe was good, practical and safe..no point going up to rescue some one only to need rescueing yourself, One of the main things is be truthfull to yourself, if your not capable and deep down inside you know this stand aside and let the next man do the deed. I think honestly if your rigging is in the tree already and still good n safe and tree integrity is good,use any means to get the injured man to the ground. Practice as close to reality as you can, NO assistance by the injured climber, only ground staff. Remember how and what you practise will near on be what you do come time for the rescue, be unpridictable with senarios...on a real job call out injured climber and note how every reacts, do they run around like chooks, who takes control, does the rescue climber climb 20' just to realise he's left a critical piece of gear on the ground. Time there efforts as it gives you a bench mark on improvment or lack off. __________________ Member: Australian Tree Association Join the Australian Tree Association...Have your voice heard ! Arboriculture, A life long study for some, a passing phase for others © Jeffrey J Darby 2011

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