rigging in the tree

treestyle · 24th July 2007, 02:00 AM

at the moment i'm using 2 pullies. where possible in a square rigging configuration to equally distribute weight throught out canopy. i attatch them using whoppie slings, but it's time to replace some gear and i'm thinking about rope and cowhitch instead of whoppies.

worth having an arborist block? i don't do alot of BIG lowering, but is it good to have a block any where within a rigging operation?

when i first started i bought a whole heap of short rock climbing slings. never really had a use for them, just recently i've started to use them for knotless rigging. i girth hitch the sling to the branch then do a couple of half hitchs on the tail then connect it to lowering rope using steel screw gate. works well to speed up things, when the lowering rope comes back up i snap it on and set to go again. the groundies don't like it. Any thoughts on this?

be good to hear how some of you guys rig.

thanks.

Ekka · 24th July 2007, 03:02 AM

I'm all for knotless rigging and blocks.

Once you start using blocks you wont go back to cheaper pulleys.

despite pulley's ratings they're not designed for shock loading, a possibility that always exists with tree work.

I cowhitch the block, others use whoopies, whatever turns you on.

As long as all your gear matches together on SWL you should be OK.

Sean Freeman · 24th July 2007, 03:27 AM

As Ekka suggests each person will have their own preferrences as to whether whoopies, loopies or ropes are best to attach the block, I use a special length of double braid to attach the block in the tree.

The key to efficient, effective and safe rigging in the tree is forward planning, getting the block in a position where you can rig don as many parts as possible not only makes it easier on you therefore safer, but will also mean that you have found the strongest high rigging point possible making the loading on your rigging easier to estimate and control.

Anyone starting out or trying to develop their rigging should try to buy the arbormaster videos(suppose their dvds now) The art and science of practical rigging together with the book it contains much knowledge that would otherwise take years to attain.

I envy Ekka his rope slings, very quick...on light work (less than 100kg) I use a steel biner on the end of the static rigging line for attachments...heavier or larger I end to create some version of a balancer to limit the dynamic reaction in the parts being removed.

Always know your gear, its capabilities and its limitations.....you and your brain up the tree are part of that gear too!! Always run through what you expect to happen, and then have a plan B & C that permits you to cope with undesirable outcomes should they occur.

Brad Goyen · 6th August 2007, 06:04 AM

Using a sling to attach to a crab on the end of a rope adds two more parts of the system that can fail.

Just a thaught

treestyle · 7th August 2007, 03:15 AM

That's very true Brad. I only use slings connected to lowering rope with karabiner on limbs smaller then approx 75 kg. bigger branches and timber sections are half hitched a couply times then finished with a running bowline. slings can add SO much effeciency to the operation!

Ekka · 7th August 2007, 07:12 AM

Slings are way strong as they are doubled rope and spliced.

Carabiner I use is an Omega steel 72kn whilst the lowering rope is 6000kg breaking so system is matched.

Slings, made out of same stuff as lowering rope or stronger.

Weakest link, the lowering rope.

But you could argue the poor bend ratio of the sling on the carabiner.

newguy18 · 8th August 2007, 09:08 AM

I still crotch the line but I am looking into a false crotch setp it will take some time as cash is short right now but I would like any suggestions as to what blocks are the best.I already plan to buy a grcs after seeing the demo video on another sight and was quite impressed.

Ekka · 8th August 2007, 03:09 PM

I go with the CSI blocks, get a yellow one rather than blue as it takes up to 3/4" rope.

These have no pin or bolt than can fall to the ground, very strong and sturdy. Here they are safe rated to 2000kg.

http://www.rescueresponse.com/store/...ley_block.html

allmarktree · 17th August 2007, 08:19 PM

Ekka can you post a pic of your Omega biner? Do you know what that rating works out to inlbs(Im feeling lazy)?

Ekka · 17th August 2007, 09:00 PM

<font face="arial">1/2" Std. D NFPA Screw-Lok<br>Part # OP12S58LNFPA</font><br>

The gate opens on a slight angle so it misses the spine.

Some do say that screw gate is not optimal as a climber may not screw the gate closed. I always do but often when others are climbing for me they do forget.

72kn is around 15840lbs

greenwood arb · 14th December 2007, 08:45 PM

hi guys just been reading sme of your ideas on rigging I found that u could just about teach anyone to climb a tree but rigging is an art u are dealing with lots of different forces and dynamic loading I found that redirect rigging works best for me on technical takedowns using slings tied with tape knots or beer knots watever tickles your fancy joined to a steel rigging carabiner,these things can take a hammering but obviously aren't as smooth as a pulley,I normaly have a cmi 4000ib at top of tree then just pre sling optimum points of advantage,this also works well when fish poeling there will be times there will be no overhead advantage so equal weight distribution over branch is essential these slings work well, I think biggest thing is knowing the type of wood fibre your dealing with and also knowing greenweight so u know how greedy u can be, u can teach the physics in a classroom but hands on is always the best. Work to the safety factors of your gear,theres lots of flash equipment out there that u can purchase but all the basic principles apply regardles if u using a hub or a portwrap,hope this helps sme of ya chers karl.

Ekka · 14th December 2007, 10:21 PM

G'day Karl and welcome

Yes, rigging in the real world is different for sure.

Thanks for your input and have fun.

Tree Machine · 5th January 2008, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by treestyle

slings can add SO much effeciency to the operation!

Tru dat.

I haven't tied a knot in years. Actually, I went fishing earlier this week, so that statement is not entirely true.

Slings, eyed ends on the ropes and caribiners make this knotless scenario entirely possible.

I'm always amazed how inexpensive rated slings are. $55 (shipping included in that price) bought the lot below. They'll last years if they're not touched with a saw, or lost. The 4-foot eye-eye flat slings are my fave, very versatile and only half that length when hung on the saddle properly, keeping them out of your feet. Bigger slings for bigger rigging, but as a rule I don't rig stuff that's huge. If I did, then I'd have to have a ground guy do the lowering and this would definitely slow things down.

bigshea13 · 5th January 2008, 10:12 PM

I go with the CSI blocks, get a yellow one rather than blue as it takes up to 3/4" rope.

most of my work is large removals...cottonwood/pines/maples/spruce and i have three yellows. the pully accepts 3/4 but i attach the pully with a 7/8 line. i use a tie technique thats kind of selfbrewed. i wrap the line around itself several time and finish it off with a square knot. the wrap makes it bind but not on the knot . once you use a block you will never go back. saves on ropes and its so smooooth. not to mention you can use it a billion ways{physics} i also use a port a wrap to save on my ropes

quercus · 5th January 2008, 11:21 PM

We're also suckers for knotless rigging. Only smaller jobs are knotted here.
I'm working on a special net/bag made from industrial grade webbing. Calculations have shown that it will have a combined strength before failing of about 17.000 pounds.

It's very simple to use actually. Big blocks can be severed from the stem. just pull the net over them and push em off. When it's finished I'll post it out here.

TrevMcRev · 6th January 2008, 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quercus

We're also suckers for knotless rigging. Only smaller jobs are knotted here.
I'm working on a special net/bag made from industrial grade webbing. Calculations have shown that it will have a combined strength before failing of about 17.000 pounds.

It's very simple to use actually. Big blocks can be severed from the stem. just pull the net over them and push em off. When it's finished I'll post it out here.

If thats what i think it sounds like.... interesting idea, love to see it.

newguy18 · 6th January 2008, 01:29 PM

Sounds intresting can't wait to see it.

24th July 2007, 02:00 AM	#1 (permalink)
treestyle Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: North Brisbane Posts: 124	rigging in the tree at the moment i'm using 2 pullies. where possible in a square rigging configuration to equally distribute weight throught out canopy. i attatch them using whoppie slings, but it's time to replace some gear and i'm thinking about rope and cowhitch instead of whoppies. worth having an arborist block? i don't do alot of BIG lowering, but is it good to have a block any where within a rigging operation? when i first started i bought a whole heap of short rock climbing slings. never really had a use for them, just recently i've started to use them for knotless rigging. i girth hitch the sling to the branch then do a couple of half hitchs on the tail then connect it to lowering rope using steel screw gate. works well to speed up things, when the lowering rope comes back up i snap it on and set to go again. the groundies don't like it. Any thoughts on this? be good to hear how some of you guys rig. thanks.

24th July 2007, 03:02 AM	#2 (permalink)
Ekka Admin - Dip Arb & Hort Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 7,734	I'm all for knotless rigging and blocks. Once you start using blocks you wont go back to cheaper pulleys. despite pulley's ratings they're not designed for shock loading, a possibility that always exists with tree work. I cowhitch the block, others use whoopies, whatever turns you on. As long as all your gear matches together on SWL you should be OK. __________________ Arborist Training in Australia\| Your Free Helping Guide Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory .... Yes, I also SEO (Optimize) and build websites that fly high in Google Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding and Stump Removal Brisbane Brisbane - Gold Coast Tree Care, Consulting, Developer, Tree and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

24th July 2007, 03:27 AM	#3 (permalink)
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,868	As Ekka suggests each person will have their own preferrences as to whether whoopies, loopies or ropes are best to attach the block, I use a special length of double braid to attach the block in the tree. The key to efficient, effective and safe rigging in the tree is forward planning, getting the block in a position where you can rig don as many parts as possible not only makes it easier on you therefore safer, but will also mean that you have found the strongest high rigging point possible making the loading on your rigging easier to estimate and control. Anyone starting out or trying to develop their rigging should try to buy the arbormaster videos(suppose their dvds now) The art and science of practical rigging together with the book it contains much knowledge that would otherwise take years to attain. I envy Ekka his rope slings, very quick...on light work (less than 100kg) I use a steel biner on the end of the static rigging line for attachments...heavier or larger I end to create some version of a balancer to limit the dynamic reaction in the parts being removed. Always know your gear, its capabilities and its limitations.....you and your brain up the tree are part of that gear too!! Always run through what you expect to happen, and then have a plan B & C that permits you to cope with undesirable outcomes should they occur. __________________ Sean Trees are poems that earth writes upon the sky, We fell them down and turn them into paper, That we may record our emptiness. - Kahlil Gibran

7th August 2007, 07:12 AM	#6 (permalink)
Ekka Admin - Dip Arb & Hort Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 7,734	Slings are way strong as they are doubled rope and spliced. Carabiner I use is an Omega steel 72kn whilst the lowering rope is 6000kg breaking so system is matched. Slings, made out of same stuff as lowering rope or stronger. Weakest link, the lowering rope. But you could argue the poor bend ratio of the sling on the carabiner. __________________ Arborist Training in Australia\| Your Free Helping Guide Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory .... Yes, I also SEO (Optimize) and build websites that fly high in Google Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding and Stump Removal Brisbane Brisbane - Gold Coast Tree Care, Consulting, Developer, Tree and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

8th August 2007, 09:08 AM	#7 (permalink)
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Dead twig Florida. Posts: 4,062	I still crotch the line but I am looking into a false crotch setp it will take some time as cash is short right now but I would like any suggestions as to what blocks are the best.I already plan to buy a grcs after seeing the demo video on another sight and was quite impressed. __________________ Have your say join us today. I ship USA saws out of the USA "Everybody's hell on safety." G.f.beranek. www.atreestory.com

6th August 2007, 06:04 AM	#4 (permalink)
Brad Goyen Sappling Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 12	Using a sling to attach to a crab on the end of a rope adds two more parts of the system that can fail. Just a thaught

7th August 2007, 03:15 AM	#5 (permalink)
treestyle Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: North Brisbane Posts: 124	That's very true Brad. I only use slings connected to lowering rope with karabiner on limbs smaller then approx 75 kg. bigger branches and timber sections are half hitched a couply times then finished with a running bowline. slings can add SO much effeciency to the operation!

8th August 2007, 03:09 PM	#8 (permalink)
Ekka Admin - Dip Arb & Hort Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 7,734	I go with the CSI blocks, get a yellow one rather than blue as it takes up to 3/4" rope. These have no pin or bolt than can fall to the ground, very strong and sturdy. Here they are safe rated to 2000kg. http://www.rescueresponse.com/store/...ley_block.html __________________ Arborist Training in Australia\| Your Free Helping Guide Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory .... Yes, I also SEO (Optimize) and build websites that fly high in Google Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding and Stump Removal Brisbane Brisbane - Gold Coast Tree Care, Consulting, Developer, Tree and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

17th August 2007, 08:19 PM	#9 (permalink)
allmarktree Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Albany, New York Posts: 131	Ekka can you post a pic of your Omega biner? Do you know what that rating works out to inlbs(Im feeling lazy)?

17th August 2007, 09:00 PM	#10 (permalink)
Ekka Admin - Dip Arb & Hort Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 7,734	<font face="arial">1/2" Std. D NFPA Screw-Lok<br>Part # OP12S58LNFPA</font><br> The gate opens on a slight angle so it misses the spine. Some do say that screw gate is not optimal as a climber may not screw the gate closed. I always do but often when others are climbing for me they do forget. 72kn is around 15840lbs __________________ Arborist Training in Australia\| Your Free Helping Guide Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory .... Yes, I also SEO (Optimize) and build websites that fly high in Google Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding and Stump Removal Brisbane Brisbane - Gold Coast Tree Care, Consulting, Developer, Tree and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

14th December 2007, 08:45 PM	#11 (permalink)
greenwood arb I'm new here so be nice Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: new zealand Posts: 1	Re: rigging in the tree hi guys just been reading sme of your ideas on rigging I found that u could just about teach anyone to climb a tree but rigging is an art u are dealing with lots of different forces and dynamic loading I found that redirect rigging works best for me on technical takedowns using slings tied with tape knots or beer knots watever tickles your fancy joined to a steel rigging carabiner,these things can take a hammering but obviously aren't as smooth as a pulley,I normaly have a cmi 4000ib at top of tree then just pre sling optimum points of advantage,this also works well when fish poeling there will be times there will be no overhead advantage so equal weight distribution over branch is essential these slings work well, I think biggest thing is knowing the type of wood fibre your dealing with and also knowing greenweight so u know how greedy u can be, u can teach the physics in a classroom but hands on is always the best. Work to the safety factors of your gear,theres lots of flash equipment out there that u can purchase but all the basic principles apply regardles if u using a hub or a portwrap,hope this helps sme of ya chers karl.

14th December 2007, 10:21 PM	#12 (permalink)
Ekka Admin - Dip Arb & Hort Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 7,734	Re: rigging in the tree G'day Karl and welcome Yes, rigging in the real world is different for sure. Thanks for your input and have fun. __________________ Arborist Training in Australia\| Your Free Helping Guide Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory .... Yes, I also SEO (Optimize) and build websites that fly high in Google Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding and Stump Removal Brisbane Brisbane - Gold Coast Tree Care, Consulting, Developer, Tree and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

5th January 2008, 10:12 PM	#14 (permalink)
bigshea13 Mature tree Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: hiding Posts: 378	Re: rigging in the tree I go with the CSI blocks, get a yellow one rather than blue as it takes up to 3/4" rope. most of my work is large removals...cottonwood/pines/maples/spruce and i have three yellows. the pully accepts 3/4 but i attach the pully with a 7/8 line. i use a tie technique thats kind of selfbrewed. i wrap the line around itself several time and finish it off with a square knot. the wrap makes it bind but not on the knot . once you use a block you will never go back. saves on ropes and its so smooooth. not to mention you can use it a billion ways{physics} i also use a port a wrap to save on my ropes

5th January 2008, 11:21 PM	#15 (permalink)
quercus Mature tree Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: belgium Posts: 421	Re: rigging in the tree We're also suckers for knotless rigging. Only smaller jobs are knotted here. I'm working on a special net/bag made from industrial grade webbing. Calculations have shown that it will have a combined strength before failing of about 17.000 pounds. It's very simple to use actually. Big blocks can be severed from the stem. just pull the net over them and push em off. When it's finished I'll post it out here.

6th January 2008, 01:29 PM	#17 (permalink)
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Dead twig Florida. Posts: 4,062	Re: rigging in the tree Sounds intresting can't wait to see it. __________________ Have your say join us today. I ship USA saws out of the USA "Everybody's hell on safety." G.f.beranek. www.atreestory.com