rigging in the tree

treestyle

at the moment i'm using 2 pullies. where possible in a square rigging configuration to equally distribute weight throught out canopy. i attatch them using whoppie slings, but it's time to replace some gear and i'm thinking about rope and cowhitch instead of whoppies.

worth having an arborist block? i don't do alot of BIG lowering, but is it good to have a block any where within a rigging operation?

when i first started i bought a whole heap of short rock climbing slings. never really had a use for them, just recently i've started to use them for knotless rigging. i girth hitch the sling to the branch then do a couple of half hitchs on the tail then connect it to lowering rope using steel screw gate. works well to speed up things, when the lowering rope comes back up i snap it on and set to go again. the groundies don't like it. Any thoughts on this?

be good to hear how some of you guys rig.

thanks.

Eric Frei

I'm all for knotless rigging and blocks.

Once you start using blocks you wont go back to cheaper pulleys.

despite pulley's ratings they're not designed for shock loading, a possibility that always exists with tree work.

I cowhitch the block, others use whoopies, whatever turns you on.

As long as all your gear matches together on SWL you should be OK.

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Sean Freeman

As Ekka suggests each person will have their own preferrences as to whether whoopies, loopies or ropes are best to attach the block, I use a special length of double braid to attach the block in the tree.

The key to efficient, effective and safe rigging in the tree is forward planning, getting the block in a position where you can rig don as many parts as possible not only makes it easier on you therefore safer, but will also mean that you have found the strongest high rigging point possible making the loading on your rigging easier to estimate and control.

Anyone starting out or trying to develop their rigging should try to buy the arbormaster videos(suppose their dvds now) The art and science of practical rigging together with the book it contains much knowledge that would otherwise take years to attain.

I envy Ekka his rope slings, very quick...on light work (less than 100kg) I use a steel biner on the end of the static rigging line for attachments...heavier or larger I end to create some version of a balancer to limit the dynamic reaction in the parts being removed.

Always know your gear, its capabilities and its limitations.....you and your brain up the tree are part of that gear too!! Always run through what you expect to happen, and then have a plan B & C that permits you to cope with undesirable outcomes should they occur.

Brad Goyen

Using a sling to attach to a crab on the end of a rope adds two more parts of the system that can fail.

Just a thaught

treestyle

That's very true Brad. I only use slings connected to lowering rope with karabiner on limbs smaller then approx 75 kg. bigger branches and timber sections are half hitched a couply times then finished with a running bowline. slings can add SO much effeciency to the operation!

Eric Frei

Slings are way strong as they are doubled rope and spliced.

Carabiner I use is an Omega steel 72kn whilst the lowering rope is 6000kg breaking so system is matched.

Slings, made out of same stuff as lowering rope or stronger.

Weakest link, the lowering rope.

But you could argue the poor bend ratio of the sling on the carabiner.

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newguy18

I still crotch the line but I am looking into a false crotch setp it will take some time as cash is short right now but I would like any suggestions as to what blocks are the best.I already plan to buy a grcs after seeing the demo video on another sight and was quite impressed.

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old schooler

Eric Frei

I go with the CSI blocks, get a yellow one rather than blue as it takes up to 3/4" rope.

These have no pin or bolt than can fall to the ground, very strong and sturdy. Here they are safe rated to 2000kg.

http://www.rescueresponse.com/store/...ley_block.html

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allmarktree

Ekka can you post a pic of your Omega biner? Do you know what that rating works out to inlbs(Im feeling lazy)?

Eric Frei

<font face="arial">1/2" Std. D NFPA Screw-Lok<br>Part # OP12S58LNFPA</font><br>

The gate opens on a slight angle so it misses the spine.

Some do say that screw gate is not optimal as a climber may not screw the gate closed. I always do but often when others are climbing for me they do forget.


72kn is around 15840lbs

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greenwood arb

hi guys just been reading sme of your ideas on rigging I found that u could just about teach anyone to climb a tree but rigging is an art u are dealing with lots of different forces and dynamic loading I found that redirect rigging works best for me on technical takedowns using slings tied with tape knots or beer knots watever tickles your fancy joined to a steel rigging carabiner,these things can take a hammering but obviously aren't as smooth as a pulley,I normaly have a cmi 4000ib at top of tree then just pre sling optimum points of advantage,this also works well when fish poeling there will be times there will be no overhead advantage so equal weight distribution over branch is essential these slings work well, I think biggest thing is knowing the type of wood fibre your dealing with and also knowing greenweight so u know how greedy u can be, u can teach the physics in a classroom but hands on is always the best. Work to the safety factors of your gear,theres lots of flash equipment out there that u can purchase but all the basic principles apply regardles if u using a hub or a portwrap,hope this helps sme of ya chers karl.

Eric Frei

G'day Karl and welcome

Yes, rigging in the real world is different for sure.

Thanks for your input and have fun.

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Tree Machine

Tru dat.

I haven't tied a knot in years. Actually, I went fishing earlier this week, so that statement is not entirely true.

Slings, eyed ends on the ropes and caribiners make this knotless scenario entirely possible.

I'm always amazed how inexpensive rated slings are. $55 (shipping included in that price) bought the lot below. They'll last years if they're not touched with a saw, or lost. The 4-foot eye-eye flat slings are my fave, very versatile and only half that length when hung on the saddle properly, keeping them out of your feet. Bigger slings for bigger rigging, but as a rule I don't rig stuff that's huge. If I did, then I'd have to have a ground guy do the lowering and this would definitely slow things down.

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bigshea13

I go with the CSI blocks, get a yellow one rather than blue as it takes up to 3/4" rope.


most of my work is large removals...cottonwood/pines/maples/spruce and i have three yellows. the pully accepts 3/4 but i attach the pully with a 7/8 line. i use a tie technique thats kind of selfbrewed. i wrap the line around itself several time and finish it off with a square knot. the wrap makes it bind but not on the knot . once you use a block you will never go back. saves on ropes and its so smooooth. not to mention you can use it a billion ways{physics} i also use a port a wrap to save on my ropes

quercus

We're also suckers for knotless rigging. Only smaller jobs are knotted here.
I'm working on a special net/bag made from industrial grade webbing. Calculations have shown that it will have a combined strength before failing of about 17.000 pounds.

It's very simple to use actually. Big blocks can be severed from the stem. just pull the net over them and push em off. When it's finished I'll post it out here.

TrevMcRev

If thats what i think it sounds like.... interesting idea, love to see it.

newguy18

Sounds intresting can't wait to see it.

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old schooler

shaggs

Now thats a good idea from thinking outside the square!

treevet

I do all the rigging described here in but day to day I use a technique I haven t observed anyone else using . If I can I will get one of my pickers to the tree. I work with one employee (have been for over 35 years). Most limbs I am holding and tossing and quite often I am sending the butts facing the chipper and ever stacking them from above. When I ve got some piles on one side I go to the other side so gm can work safely on that side.

When it comes to rig pieces, usually they are over a roof or landscape and quite often it is pretty open on the ground right by the trunk. I use a 3/4 by 8 or 10 or 12 double braid sling and girth hitch it on the trunk side of the limb where the cut will be and go past the cut spot and bolen sometimes with a marl if real heavy. I then just bottom cut and match the top cut and simply drop the limb into the girth hitch and hang the limb. I can do this with a 40 foot limb with a 10 inch dia or more. I then boom into the side of the limb and quickly begin to lighten the hanging limb until it is down to wood and then chunk it until I can capture it into the bucket or on the rim and go down or sideways or down or right there just push it into the right spot.

I do huge trees that you wouldn t suspect you could do without any lowering at all and all the while keeping the gm working and not bogged down. You obviously cannot use this technique without a cherry picker but when you are doing mass production takedowns like I do you can often find a way to get the truck in there with a little imagination.

jim1nz

Il just start by saying, as im sure everyone does, i use different systems for different requirements and situations.

Im a bit suspect of setting up double pulley systems as it loads trees in a way they are not always able to withstand. Think about, cross loading on forks, energy dispercement throughout the tree, obstruction or setup time.

I do like rock climbing slings as they are light and compact and very strong. For small loads as several people have pointed out.

Its upto the climber to show his or her true skill and leadership when dealing to a big takedown.


"The key to efficient, effective and safe rigging in the tree is forward planning, getting the block in a position where you can rig don as many parts as possible not only makes it easier on you therefore safer, but will also mean that you have found the strongest high rigging point possible making the loading on your rigging easier to estimate and control"

True Sean.

"I think biggest thing is knowing the type of wood fibre your dealing with and also knowing greenweight so u know how greedy u can be, u can teach the physics in a classroom but hands on is always the best. Work to the safety factors of your gear,theres lots of flash equipment out there that u can purchase but all the basic principles apply regardles if u using a hub or a portwrap,hope this helps sme of ya chers karl."

Good comment Karl

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SPEED ALWAYS FOLLOWS TECHNIQUE

treevet

Not intending to lessen the impact of this dissertation on routine rigging 101, butif one wants toknow where this is heading it is with the thought that the lessrigging you do the better takedown man you are.

Free fall gravity down is always quicker. To make big money and still outbid competitors, speed is a must.

lBlowing huge leads out when the shot is there is a start. Slicing big upright limbs when their canopy is contained by other canopy with a 45 degree up back cut and matching down cut and spear the limb into the ground like a fkg dart is a great technique. Chunking, hinging, turning, flipping, jumping, swinging, tossing, slicing, etc. and eventually rooting for a good result is what it evolves to.l

All that gear set up (sometimes you gotta do it) and wrapping (taka....wrap....what.....how many......I can t hear you...) is so slow and boring and on the ground it ties up the gm esp if big and the climber/bucket. Let s kick some ass, get on the next or go home and lay on the couch.

Btw, yes you should buy a big aluminum block and some high cap pullies.

Therrin

Well there's one end of the spectrum...

And...for the rest of us who don't have 6 huge jobs every day? It's s'okay if we take our time and don't just go sending things off all over the yard cuz we're in too much of a hurry to be carefull right? It'd better be.

I guess if most of the stuff I had to climb to take down was easy, then I wouldn't have any trouble with it. Problem is that I usually get called when it *isn't* that easy... so it takes time, sometimes a WHOLE DAY (omg!) to get it done.

I guess the difference is whether you're a 1 to 2 man operation, or if you're a company with lots of equipment and employees and lots of projects to knock out every day. Heck, if you're that crazy about getting things done QUICKLY I'll be ya prolly gaff stuff that ya prune too eh? Time is money right?

treevet

Just trying to point out where all this leads to Therrin. Looking at your profile, you being 24 years old, and myself, 59 years old (and still in top shape), 25 years later, you may not still be fumbling all over yourself while rigging, and, as you said in another thread , afraid to prune a damn oak tree.

Easy is a relative term. Hard for a 24 year old just may not be quite as hard for somebody doing the same thing over and over 25 years later.

You ll figure it out

newguy18

I agree and have got out on limbs and used snap cuts where others would have rigged it.I freefall wood as much as possible myself it not only shows your knowledge and judgement but it impressess the heck out of customers.

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old schooler

treevet

You just got to take what the tree will give you and your experience has allowed you to do.

newguy18

I know I impressed my dad when he saw me use an improved jump cut on a 30' long limb that was approx.16" in diameter and have it miss a fence by mere inches.once you get the hang of it like treevet said you can greatly enhance your knowledge and judgement on trickier trees.

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old schooler

treevet

It s funny when you ve got the right branch set up for a jump cut, and it pops off, it is like in suspended animation, and if you hit that huge limb in the but with the palm of your hand, it will move out a surprising distance (over wires and stuff like you said). You always talking about your Dad, newguy. Is he a treeguy? Does he post on here?

newguy18

no he just helped me on a couple of tree jobs i got over the summer[it freaked my mom out that I was doing it by myself].He has no desire to do treework or learn a thing about trees but I want to learn everything I can.

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old schooler

Therrin

Treevet.... I don't "fumble" with my rigging. Everything I place is methodical and swift through lots of practice. I don't unnecessarily haul ass though, even if I have another project in the day. I suppose some people get away with being a little messy in their old age and I like to keep things nice and neat

Having rigged down over 200 large trees so far, some up to 5' dia., I think I qualify. Having never broken anything of the h.o.'s, never dropped overhanging limbs on a garage or house, shed, meatlocker or toolbox, I think I'm doing alright so far.

I'm not sure what age has to do with it. I haven't sold out to the "more miles per day" crowd yet. And I don't have a nice bucket truck and crane, not that one could access most spots in the Lakes area up here, they're just about worthless when it comes to that. I actually have to *climb* the stuff I rig.

As far as "afraid to prune a damn oak tree"....

My reasons are propperly stated as not wishing to butcher something which is quite beautiful, has been around hundreds of years longer than your 59 some odd, and will be around long after I'm dead, hopefully.

I prune pines and other stuff often, but these oaks are all permitted, and I don't want to F&CK it up, so excuse me, if I don't just hack away at it without knowing what I'm doing, just so I can finish the job as soon as possible!

quercus

That's the right way to go, Therrin... THINK TWICE,CUT ONCE...