Long Descents on a Figure 8

Gunslinger

For a recreational climber half the fun of going up is the quick rappelling trip down. I've been using one of these lately. I was wondering if anyone uses a figure 8 for long descents?

Therrin

Used to back when it was all I knew.

Then I switched to an 8 with a half twist, then to a pirahna, then to both my ATC or my Reverso, then to my rack.

The rack is absolutely the sweetest for long descents. Dissipates heat well, doesn't twist the rope, can easily and quickly add or subtract friction bars to vary the rate of descent. Can also be used with two ropes, and tied off easily.

And, I've found that with my weight and a certain bar setting, I can execute a hands-free descent at a nice rate which is also easy to brake without injury to your hands.



And, racks come in all sizes and lengths.

I've written a review on mine at this site/page:
BMS Rescue Rack (6 Bar) at KarstSports.com

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Willard Holmen

Very impressive setup Therrin, what does it weigh? I think you may have a hard time stuffing that in your ditty bag.
Willard

Therrin

Oh, I dunno. A pound?

"The BMS Rescue Rack is a 6-bar "U" shaped Rescue Rappel Rack made of Stainless Steel. The top bar on the rack is a double-sided hyper bar that allows easy lock off of two ropes. Each unit is individually tested to 2,000 pounds and the frame strength is in excess of 20,000 pounds. Works with two ropes. Dimensions: Length 13"; Width 5"; Depth 3/4" "

moray

BMS also makes a much smaller 4-bar rack with a single hyperbar. For someone of my weight (about 70 kg) I really never need the hyperbar, but near the ground, with very little rope weight below me, I like the extra friction. Therrin is right, a rack makes for a very sweet descent.

Therrin

I actually originally picked mine up to use for rigging, then decided that I liked it for personal use and never ended up rigging with it. I really should pick up a smaller one for personal use and then go ahead with the original plan.

A rack is really convenient on projects where you dont have a groundy and have to lower everything yourself.

Using two lines you can rig with a self releasing knot attatched to the other line. You lower, pull out the slack on the second line and TUG to release the knot, then pull them both up and start over.

Therrin

This is a pretty niffty device.



The Nano-Belay and Nano-Unloader are two of the newest and hottest items on the market for belays during rescue. They are both manufactured by Bassett Metal Studios. Since the Nano-Unloader requires the Nano-Belay we sell them as a combination unit. If you just need one piece please call us for details. The image on the left of the photo is the Nano-Belay. The image on the right is the Nano-Unloader attached to the Nano-Belay. The Nano-Unloader is easily attached and removed from the Nano-Belay in under 10 seconds.

All Stainless Steel Construction, high strength, abrasion and corrosion resistance, no aluminum parts to discolor rope.
Spring Latch in second bar keeps bar closed but opens easily in event of incorrect rigging.
Frame deforms under severe impact loads to indicate over loading without loss of strength
Frame Strength over 14,000 lbs.
Easier and faster to rig than tandem triple wrap Prusik knots, usually under 20 seconds. Eliminates Prusik and belay line compatibility as well as knot dressing issues.
Lowers shock to system through controlled slippage in the event of a mainline failure over Prusik knot belays, easier on system, patients and personnel.
Easily rigged midline and compatible with most 7/16" (11mm) and 1/2" (12.5mm) Nylon and Polyester Rescue Rope (Kernmantle)
Automatically locks up with application of sudden load. Passes "hands off" or "whistle" tests.
Excellent Lowering Control with optional Nano-Unloader allows Nano-Belay and Nano-Unloader combination to be used as a Lowering Device.
Nano-Unloader may be attached to either side of Nano-Belay in under 10 Seconds. Makes lowering easier in difficult situations.
May be used with Load Releasing Hitches if Nano-Unloader is not used.
Dimensions (L,W & D):

Nano-Belay : 9.5 in. (242mm), 2.5 in. (64mm) , 0.75 in (20mm)
Nano-Unloader 10.375 in. (264mm), 3.25 in. (83mm), 2 in. (51mm)
Weight:

Nano-Belay: 14.75 oz. (422 g.)
Nano-Unloader: 9.5 oz. (213 g.)
Total: 24.25 oz. (635 g.)

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Willard Holmen

Therrin those racks look really impressive and will work very smooth especially with the lever controlled one. But you would have to detach your climbing line from your saddle to thread it. The old figure 8 you don't have to, just girth a loop of your line then biner small eye to saddles bridge. If I was decending 250 foot redwoods yes the rack would be nice.

Therrin

Thats why I carry lanyards for second attatchment points so I dont ALWAYS have to rely on the rope =)

And frankly, the extra 20 seconds really doesnt bother me. At all. If I decide I need to use the rack for something, whatever it is is reason enough for me to make do having to clip it in. It's just no big deal to me.

Garry Brockley

I love my old figure 8 i really enjoy a good long decent.

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MrDiesel

Yep, a fig 8 is a bit of a favourite. Its impossible to go wrong with it.

Therrin

Till your rope is all snarled up and half-melted.... lol. I'm really not fond of figure 8's anymore. I'd got with my ATC for a good rappell before I'd go for my fig8.

Gunslinger

Do figure 8's tend to put a lot of twists in the line? I've noticed more twists lately.

Garry Brockley

when you use the figure 8 it tends to put a small amount of twist in the rope but nothing excessive you just roll it out afterwards. i have an old clog figure 8 made before they put the side bars on and i dont get much twist at all, but they added the side bars to stop the rope from moving over the end and snarling up, after the iranian seige where one of the sas got hung up and badly burned.

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Therrin

The ears also make it easier to quickly tie off. Or at least, I use them for that too.

I partially fibbed. I still use a rescue 8 for some rigging. Not for personal use though.

treejames64

Great thread. Hey Therin I was wondering about your quick release knot. I had one yet I ended bending a chain link fence because it released when the branch got caught on the way down. It was really quick release. Anyway, great pictures of the rack. How does the unloader work?

Therrin

I dunno how it works, I just saw it while I was looking at the site I bought my rack from to upload pictures and I thought I'd mention it as well cuz it looked niffty.

As for my releasing knot, well, I'd only use it in application where I dont have someone on the ground, so I dont have to travel up and down so much. And only where a cleared DZ permits. I've never had a problem or an issue with it.

It's been a long time since I couldnt afford to pay a ground guy $8 to $10 bucks an hour to help with a removal that I'm making very decent money on myself; I'm just not that cheap anymore. So I dont *currently* use that technique, but it's in my bag-o-tricks.

Gunslinger

By pulling down on the handle the unloader lifts and takes pressure off the top bar which takes the pressure off the second bar and allows the rope to pass through. One caveat to this device is mistakingly reversing the load and slack ends of the rope. Without the weight of the load exerting a downward force on the the three bars from the top down, the rope would just slip through.

treejames64

I guess that uploader is only used for a lowering device up in the tree? I'm still trying to figure out how you use them for descending. Anyway I love the idea that they have a 20,000 lb tensile strength.

Therrin

its not an "uploader", it doesnt pull stuff up.

It's an "UNloader" made purely for descending. When attatched at an anchor point, using the lever to pull the weight off the bar allows (like Gunslinger said) the bars to be pulled apart from eachother so that the rope may begin to slide freely between them, allowing the "load side" to travel downward. Varying degrees of pressure on the handle allow varying speeds of descent.

It's serious overkill for personal use, since a rack alone can be used sufficiently that way, but if you WERE to use it for yourself, you'd just flip it upside down, and YOU become the "load" for the load rope side. This would be inefficient though because you'd have to push UP on the bar instead of pulling down. It's meant for lowering large objects while you're hanging up at an anchor point.