Illustrated rigging website?

blair duncanson

Hi folks. Travelling again, without my books! Have large Elm to dismantal and was wandering if there was a web site that illustrated different rigging systems and knots. Need some inspiration as to how i am going to tackle this one! Thanks.
Ps. Best wishes for the New Year.

Eric Frei

Maybe Grog's site, it's in this post.

Great site

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blair duncanson

Cheers for that Ekka, good New Year to ya. Thing is i'm looking for attachment to stems. Unsure if the heavy load will be ok with just half hitch, timber hitch? Will keep searching, job not on till next week, much snow and wind!

newguy18

Are you useing a block or natural crotch system?

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blair duncanson

Natural.

newguy18

Crotch rigging is easy,its all i do,plus you have the advantage to make it as close or as far as you need it.Just take caution,you don't have as much pulling power and it can be harder to let the work run if need be,2 wraps will hold most heavy loads,also use a good 3 strand rope,i use 3/4" tree master,yuo can buy it here,WesSpur Tree Equipment Homepage

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rbtree

3/4" of any kind of line is overkill for rigging any branch under 500 lb. Heavy and awkward. Most 3 strand are a bit stretchy as well,

1/2" 12 strand single braid is light, cheap, and works well for natural crotch rigging. Arborplex is OK, but True Blue is rated 7300 lb tensile, and has a much better hand, but costs a good bit more. Low stretch is a plus.


Blair, no offense, but if you need a book for inspiration, any chance you're in a bit over your head?

That's not to say there isn't a world of knowledge to be gleaned from the written word, there is. But safe application in the real world is another thing.

rbtree

That's cool....

Here's a way cool knot for joining two lines together. Bombproof, and easily undone
Zeppelin bend - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

newguy18

I'll disagree,my rope isn't bulky or hard to handle,even on small stuff.Overkill if you don't like hauling around a little extra weight.The only complaint i'll make about it was when it was new,it was so stiff that it made knot tying a little tough,but once it softned up a little,just fine.

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rbtree

You can disagree all you want, but remember that I've been doing this work for nearly 40 years....I've a big pile of 3 strand line in the shop....it gets used, but only if I'm logging over 10 sticks and run out of pull llines. (When I don't drop them till all cleanup is done...and sometimes till the log truck picks the ones that I don't want to have another log drop on asnd risk breakage.)

3/4 isn't bulky, that's a good one.......

My 3/4 double braid is 3 years old, and just got used for maybe the 3rd time, on that video of us taking the tree off the snowy roof, and only because I'd run out of lines......It takes a lot of lines to rig retrievable false crotches...but then you wouldn't know anything about such things....

I could have brought my reel of spectra, its a lot lighter, even though its 600 feet long, but 24,000 tensile at 1/2 inch.....

newguy18

I know quite a bit about false crotch rigging,i just don't see the point in me using it since i do alot of large oak removals,just set the rope where i need it to piece out the limb the rig down each spar.Although when i move out west abit that'll probabley change,and i'll buy all that false crotch crap and use light weight lines,and while i'm at it i'll become more saftey concerned.For now i'll carry on as i like the way i do things and i love to laugh in the face of danger.

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blair duncanson

No offence taken. Thing is, much of my work over the years has been mainly free falling sections out of trees, due to living in a rural area with few targets. I have done basic rigging and lowering but nothing compared to you guys. Natural crotch is 20ft above tip of stem to be removed. Stem to be removed in 10 ft- 12 ft sections, (for planking) and is 3/4 mtr diam. Original question is that my intention was to bring lowering rope down onto stem, and tip rope it first with half hitch and followed by a timber hitch. Will that surfice or is there an alternative knot system that you would recommend for such load? Very small percentage of my arb work is rigging, unfortunately in this case. Cheers for the input.

newguy18

The clove hitch is a real good knot for most rigging,so is the running bowline.

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rbtree

Replace the timber hitch with a running bowline. Much safer.

newguy18

the chain hitch is good too.

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rbtree

A clove hitch, by itself, will roll out . Therefore, it MUST be backed up with two half hitches. Better to finish with a running bowline.

newguy18

I thought every one knew that,i finish it with a bowline finish[see the fundmentals of general treework].

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rbtree

but then it wouldn't be called a clove..just a half hitch followed by a running bowline.

also, by nature, a clove is tied with both round turns close to each other. For rigging wood, it is SOP to separate the round turns to spread out the attachment points.

newguy18

Bill sighs,not its called the clove hitch with the bowline finish,it doesn't incorporate a running bowline,it takes a regular bowline,don't you have the fundamentals of general treework?

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blair duncanson

What is the reason of using boline instead, i thought timber hitch would bite much more?

newguy18

Not as well as a running bowline.

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blair duncanson

Did job today. Stuck with half hitch, timber hitch. All went well. No confidence using bowline on larger sections so stuck with what i knew. Tried half hitch and bowline on some smaller sections, held well. Thing is, on appearance to me the bowline knot keeps a small section of lowering rope away from timber, perhaps i need to practise dressing it better. Will try it out again, when no targets! Thanks all for yer input.

newguy18

Practice the clove hitch and the running bowline,a regular bowline is okay as long as its hooked in a crotch union and can't come out of it.

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jim1nz

Good call RB.

Blair, the thing is a timber hitch is just that, its a hitch. With all ranges of movements going on there is a chance the piece could unravel the hitch.

A training course is unbelievably helpful with rigging knowledge. Its not the sort of thing ya want to be 'learning as your going'. Cheers

JohN Dee

Hmm, on a bare spar I would and will always go half hitch (multiple depending on the size n weight) timber hitch. If there is a branch or a big enough stub I'll use a bowline instead of the timber.

Bowlines can come undone too. I remember on the first day of our climbing course they said, we tie ourselves off with a double figure of eight, not a bowline because it can slip/undo and you fall - While giving reference to two rock climbers or bungee jumpers that died from using a bowline and it slipped (Yes I've tried searching for the facts/story, but no luck finding any).

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blair duncanson

Your input certainly gives me bit of reassurance. Thing about tying of with bowline is same as i got taught, was always told to put stopper, overhand knot on the tail to prevent it slipping right out, which i still do. Whilst travelling though i have seen many climbers using the double eight for tying off. Cheers.

jim1nz

This is true. A bowline correctly tied will never come undone on a big piece of wood with a half hitch or marlin hitch before the knot. That said, the chances are a timber hitch wont either. We are talking about rigging situations not climbing here anent we?

arborjockey

so much talk about a simple subject.

rbtree

Right...

But, here's more talk....

Knotless rigging:

I usually terminate my lowering line with a shackle or beefy steel carabiner. An anchor bend works well, as it takes two round turns around the hardware, thus reducing the strength loss from the knot. A spliced eye in the line is optimal.

As long as one or two half hitches or marls are used, then the rope is terminated by wrapping the end around the last of the standing part and clipping the biner back to form a loop, there is very little side load on that biner.

Also, if a few round turns are made, there will be little or no load on that biner.

Slings: use a sling to choke off the load, then clip the lowering line to it. This method won't work well when butt hitching wood, as the sling length will seldom be correct-but, the sling can be installed up a ways, as long as it isn't past the center of mass.

jim1nz

Yep i do the same soo much faster too.