Hoisting rig for creek bed

MacMitch

I have this major tangle of logs and trees in the creek that is the border for the longest side of my 12 acre home/dog park. Please see the attached pictures to see what I will be trying to deal with. The distant shot was in early spring, you can't see into the trees now because the canopy is so dense. The man in the distant shot is walking right near the creek bank in one of my major trouble spots, see all the leaners. I have around 2000 feet of this creek bank.

I am interested in designing a rig with pulleys,blocks... to hoist logs out of this creek bed. I have a tractor that I can use to pull the logs up & out with. Once I get the logs out there is a front end loader on the tractor I can use to move logs out of the way. I think there are plenty of trees to hook pulleys to over the creek. My idea is to use the pulleys and a good bull rope to hoist the pieces up and out with. I can, of course saw the logs into sizes that are not terribly heavy. I might even be able to get them out by hand if I rig enough mechanical advantage. There is also another post in the legal section about the tangle that working in this area makes. I don't think I will find any professionals who will work in this area and I am sure I could not afford to pay someone else to deal with the sheer quantity of trees I am looking at.
Fulton County, Georgia, USA Law, EPA. Flood Plain...

Specific suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

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Eric Frei

The idea or technique of using a high rigging point to manouver stuff around is called a gin pole in USA.

In this video we left a high strong point and put in a 2T SWL pulley with bull rope to lift stuff up to the car park level from the basement.

You'll see we tie one end of the long branches to "skid" them up, that takes some of the weight off the rigging too provided it's not caught up down there, then retie further back on the branch etc to get it out further if you like before grabbing it and getting away.

In your case getting the ends up on the bank to where your machine can grab it and pull it out of the creek should suffice. Watch the SWL of all components, the rope that ties the pulley to the gin pole should be double the strength of the others, easily achieved by having a loop of rope .... that's because the rigging point does experience up to double the load of the pull rope.

Mini Gin Pole

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Sean Freeman

MacMitch, I would be contacting your local authority (Fulton County Commissioners perhaps?) to ensure you are not about to contravene local laws and regulations relating to the floodplain.

Just like here in Oz there are very detailed planning and management documents in place to control what is and is not permitted around creeks and rivers.

You need to get the best advice you can from your local authority, to avoid being exposed to the liability of facing fines for inadvertent impacts to the creek and its buffer...especially since you have published your intent on the internet.

(If your concern is risk of harm through the failure of trees or tree parts then you should have the stretch of creek assessed by an Arborist qualified to carry out tree risk assessment, or perhaps you could request assistance from your local authority.)

Apocalypsse

Those trees in the creek shouldnt be doing any harm to anyone. Those trees are providing habitat to creatures that live in the creek as well as a food source for birds. Down here that is something you wouldnt touch in a creek, unless it gets really blocked up ie: most of the trees falling in basically creating a dam.

MacMitch

Great video Ekka!

I'm not sure what I will end up doing. My goal posting here is to figure out what types of rigging I might invest in to deal with potential situations that I may have to work on myself. I explored felling trees in the woods in another post here.

It occured to me that were I to need to lift and move logs in situations like our creek I might be better off starting with some pulleys/blocks than a rope puller. One person suggested that fiddle blocks might be the best general purpose tool. My thought was that pulleys or blocks might be more generally applicable to the work I have to do maintaining my 12 acres. As I mentioned in another post I have a friend/arborist who I do use for consulting and the jobs I don't think I should take on. I plan to get him out for a consult sometime soon.

I have made considerable effort to figure out and comply with laws regarding the use of low lands and will continue to do so. I have experienced first hand, however, that laws may not cover all issues thoroughly and officials may choose to not enforce laws.

Tree Machine

I think you would be best off with a log arch, the medium size one (the fetching arch), and an ATV if you are really serious. But you have a tractor. I had one of these, but traded up to the larger Tractor arch. Wish I'd have kept both. The bigger one can do pretty much any log needed, but the fetching arch would do about 9 out of 10 of anything I come across regularly and is far more versatile and hand-maneuverable.

Then ropes and rigging and pulleys and blocks and tackle, winches, rope pullers, slings and all the other things that are good at moving logs from a crux spot into an adjacent, easier to deal with spot. But to move the log, in a low-impact way (without skidding), as easily as possible, a log arch without question.

Also I would follow the advice of Sean and check into Department of Natural Resources issues.

Sean Freeman

MacMitch, I am not trying to tell you definately what you are permitted to do or not, you're not my client, you're LGA is not one that I am familiar with...however I would advise you to contact (if you haven't already) the Ohio Dept of Natural Resources (ODNR) Div. of Soil and Water Conservation, or Ohio State University Extension...there is a "Call before you cut" toll-free number 877-424-8288 weekdays, or visit callb4ucut.com they may be able to give you useful advice for your region.

MacMitch

Thanks for all the advise.
The log arch is very interesting.
I had the DNR out to the property before I bought it. I have had DNR people out more recently and will again.

I'm certainly not thinking about trying to pull trees that have fallen in the creek out just to get them out. Even if I wanted to, which I don't, it would be an impossible feat. There are sawn logs and man made timbers that float down the creek during high water in the spring that can cause log jams. Kids/teenagers have dropped trees into the creek. Very large trees from property on the other side of the creek fall across the creek onto my property. Trees from across the creek fall against the trees on my side of the creek and may bring down my trees... Although these are not creating a major issue now I am concerned about, for instance, a spot where a very large Black Walnut has fallen across the creek and is continuing to grow there. Large parts of it are in or just above the surface of the creek. The pictures I posted above were just pulled out of existing pictures I had and were meant to show my general environment not specific work I intend to pursue.

I do get concerned if I think people and dogs who frequent the park might be at risk. I am also curious about the trees that fall back and forth across the property line down the center of the creek. My understanding is that trees falling across property lines are legally the responsibility of the property owner where the tree grew. I know of many cases where friends have had to clear trees that fell from their property onto adjoining property. When you toss the creek into the issue I'm not sure who might be liable for what. I will be researching these issues with proper officials. Officials may not always be the best source for practical solutions though. I can understand people may not want to offer practical advice in these prickly legal scenarios.

I am simply trying to have rigging on hand that may help with potential work I may need to do. I was suppose to order some appropriate rigging gear as my father's day present which is why I have been rushing to try to figure out what to order. I guess the rush is over now father's day is here.

Eric Frei

Over here what ever tree parts fall on your land are your problem.

I've had insurance jobs where we just cut it off at the fence line and leave a great wad next door. I like that but wow does the neighbour, not! We offer to do his side too, for money of course, his choice or he can claim on his own insurance but many policies don't cover removal of garden debris.

Yeah, I can hear it, I know what ya all asking.

The neighbours 100' tall gum tree that is just over the fenceline falls into my yard, doesn't break anything and the cost of the fence repair being just wire is next to zero. So yep, I'm stuck with getting rid of it. I ring my insurance company and tell them there's a huge tree in my yard, fell from the neighbours yard. They'll ask if it damaged any structures, no it didn't so no claim .... get rid of it yourself. So in effect the neighbour got a cheap tree removal.

Now not all policies are the same, some of the blue ribbon or higher end policies do cover it but in my experience that is rare. They tend to cover the damage done by falling trees, and will removed tree parts on structures but if it's just lying there in your yard too bad.

In fact there's a thread about some peoples mentality.

Ignore it then claim insurance!

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MacMitch

I was just talking to a friend up the road who had a live tree fall over his neighbors fence recently during a storm. He called an arborist to have it removed and was told he was within his rights to cut it off at the fence line and leave the part on his neighbors land. The arborist said that in the eyes of the law a live tree falling is an act of nature that no one is responsible for. He had it all removed. He said he was told that if the tree were dead when it fell that it was all his responsibility.

That does not sound exactly like what I have heard before. I will be checking with my arborist when I get him out. I will also probably talk to DNR, EPA ,some of my police buddies and my builder buddies. I'm betting there will be some different stories.

Eric Frei

Here's another typical dispute involving neighbours trees.

WiscNews.com : Wisconsin Dells Events

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Grais

Wow.... for the most part Mitch I would invest in some heavy signage, let people know, if people do indeed frequent the area, let them know of the hazards you think they may face, and then for the most part let mother nature look after her creek, with you too help with the odd trouble spot, she should do fine.
As for getting things out of the creek, I assume you are trying to have the least impact on the bank of the creek as possible ? Not too long ago(this spring) we had a big mess from dropping three LARGE Cottonwoods across a (thankfully)frozen creek bed, had to whip this technique out to yard the large chunks of wood out of the creek bed before the thaw, heres how we did it.....
..... the most simple version(this is exactly ht we did, no pulley, just truck,Steel RIGGING carabiner, and bullrope). So you need, a STEEL carabiner, a sling or short chunk of sturdy rope to attach the 'Biner(or redirect, as it is called in this instance) to the high point(or Gin Pole), and a bullrope, oh yeah a truck or ATV to pull with comes in real handy as well!!!
Using the carabiner, or a pulley if you want to get fancy, rigged up high in a near bye tree,much like Ekkas gin pole idea I guess, ussually go about 15-20 ft up and rig the 're direct' (as it is called), then you thread the bull rope through the re direct and attach to a butt end of a log, this helps get the butt of the log up in the air so it impacts the banks the least amount possible. Using the puller you have, get pulling and wrangle that sucker up out of the creek bed.
Realistically you are going to disturb some ground, but the idea is to minimize the disruption of the natural habitat.
Im just assuming you are after something sort of like that ?
Goodluck with this mess, it is a beautiful area by the looks of it, my thoughts, let ol Ma Nature take care of herself.
Good luck and stay safe,
-Grais.

MacMitch

My arborist was out and we took down a couple, no where near the creek. He has a friend who has city contracts and experience with the local creeks who will be taking a look at the creek and advising.