Friction hitches for climbing lines

Eric Frei · 1st April 2007, 04:20 PM

Inspired from this thread Ekka, whats with the Blakes?

We now set out to go through a large variety of the various hitches, advantages and disadvantages, and your preferences etc.

Please post a pic of the hitch. Title the post the name of the hitch.

Eric Frei · 1st April 2007, 05:00 PM

Traditionally has 4 wraps as per the first picture, the piece that runs across arrowed is called "the bar". As you grip this knot your thumb can open or close the bar to either increase or decrease friction slightly. If it's slipping on you then tighten the bar.

Now I use a 5 wrap Blakes, slips less or less manipulation of the bar required. Some say you tuck the tail at the second wrap and some the third ... my experience shows it doesn't make much difference.

I like the Blakes as you can use same line as your climbing line although I like a different colour as it makes it easier to distinguish what to grab.

The Blakes only works one way. So if you get to the end of your climbing line, re-crotch the tail and want to use the Blakes upside down you are in trouble.

A blakes advances easily enough and is a nice large chunks knot to grab minimising finger burns on descents.

Eric Frei · 1st April 2007, 05:12 PM

Generally you should use a diameter smaller than your climbing line.

The loop is usually tied together with a double fishermans but I have seen spliced ones.

I girth hitch it to the carabiner so it doesn't slide around.

You can have 4 or 6 wraps, try it out for yourself, but not at 100' please!

The advantage of this hitch is it's multi-directional, unlike the Blakes if you get to the end of you climbing line you can use the tail and keep on going ... works in either direction. Due to this fact, and also it will grip if you just let go I think it's relatively bulletproof and usually get the new guys climbing on it.

The disadvantage is it's a smaller hitch and I get finger burns, it can get too grippy and need dressing again.

TreeCo · 2nd April 2007, 01:11 AM

I use a Vt for my lanyard tied directly to my D ring. I use this same hitch for all of my rope climbing. The small double swivel is tied into fisherman's knot which holds it against the D for taking up rope with one hand.

TREE-SURFER · 2nd April 2007, 05:32 AM

I use a split tail with a 4 turn blakes. With an adjustable lanyard attached to my side D's, I can then re-crotch quite easily. The harness I use is a Petzl Navaho Full Boss.

Fairfield · 2nd April 2007, 08:02 AM

I got to go with TreeCo on this one. The only thing I like to do diffrent is have a micro pulley with it and have it on its own biner. The other end of the climbing line is also on a biner. Everything is ment for a speedy disconnect if need be.

Eric Frei · 2nd April 2007, 08:46 AM

Could you Vt guys show a complete set up on a climbing line like you were ready to go up. And also a close up of the Vt itself.

Sean Freeman · 2nd April 2007, 08:59 AM

I'll post some shots this arvo

Sean

jim1nz · 2nd April 2007, 09:28 AM

I can burn my fingers on any size prussic...

Hey guys, can we get some really good prussic/friction hitch links on this thread that people can check out? Have a look how to tie them then possibly have a play with the hitch on the ground or the shed.

Then we can discuss the characteristics, performance and query each other about them individually.

Any good links?

I only have this one

http://www.animatedknots.com/indexcl...matedknots.com

TREE-SURFER · 2nd April 2007, 09:49 AM

Hi Guy's,
I was shown the prussic years ago, but found that it tends to bite all too easily and was not easy to loosen when you needed to. I then got taught various frictions and found the best for me is the blakes, as all you need to do is give it a little twist to loosen it. For my working lanyard, I have not long changed to an ISC rope grab after using a VT with a micro pulley to advance. Again, I find the grab alot more easy to use.

jim1nz · 2nd April 2007, 10:00 AM

I have tried most and use a mix of many.

Klemheist - footlocking
Distil/knut - lanyard
VT - climbing, the best i have found.

VT - Advantages

Smooth and controllable all around, especially with swinging descent's
Tends slack very well
Doesn't bind too bad

VT - Disadvantages

Twists rope below hitch
Wares/burns in one spot
I found it hard to learn to tie

Sean Freeman · 2nd April 2007, 04:41 PM

Like jim1nz I have tried many different friction hitches but now stick to my 6 wrap French prussik on which I pull down two of the wraps to produce a open kind of VT.
When first tied

Friction hitches for climbing lines-dscf8360.jpg

(Oh yeah please don't give me a hard time about the lack of proper stopper knot on the first few

I was in a hurry to get the photos before work this morning!) Then when the two wraps are pulled down to form open braids

Friction hitches for climbing lines-dscf8361.jpg

and from the other side

Friction hitches for climbing lines-dscf8362.jpg

.

Occaisionally I'll tie a proper VT (with proper stopper

)

Friction hitches for climbing lines-dscf8366.jpg

Friction hitches for climbing lines-dscf8367.jpg

And here's my lanyard a four wrap french prussik

Friction hitches for climbing lines-dscf8369.jpg

Jim the best site for knots I've ever found is here I presume it belongs to Treespyder http://www.mytreelessons.com/Pages/Knots.htm

Sean

Sean Freeman · 2nd April 2007, 04:55 PM

Here's some variations on the VT, again from Treespyder

Friction hitches for climbing lines-vt-20variations.jpg

Sean

Eric Frei · 2nd April 2007, 05:00 PM

No wire core lanyard?

Nice pics, thanks for that.

Sean Freeman · 2nd April 2007, 05:13 PM

No only use wire core on heavy td's, used to use mine all the time then had a long chat with Tom Greenwood at TCC's in Sydney and he sort of convinced me of the advantages of using rope lanyard for light work. My wire core has the same four wrap frenchy on it.

Sean

Eric Frei · 2nd April 2007, 05:27 PM

You need to try one of the custom made wire ropes I have, you'd never know there was wire in there.

Sean Freeman · 2nd April 2007, 05:36 PM

That rope lanyard is a bit over 3m and I use more like a 2nd tip most of the time than a lanyard, funny how you get very used having things set up a certain way on your harness.
Where did/do you get those rope loops you use in the knotless vid? Like the way they behave when setting them looks much better that tape.

Sean

Eric Frei · 2nd April 2007, 07:23 PM

Yeah the tape blows around. These you can flick out a bit.

I got Allan Drinnen from Arborlink to splice them, the 9/16 double braid are the best. He's a Samson certified splicer for double braid.

9/16 double braid breaking strength is 6000kg so you double that minus 10% for the splice ... you got a 10T sling mate.

TrevMcRev · 2nd April 2007, 07:32 PM

Heres my VT set up. I like splices on everything i can, keeps it neat.
The 2nd biner on the 1st biner rather than the D's helps too and makes for quick disconnect/reconnect over branches in the way of where im heading.
The stubai micro pulley as a slack tender for 1 handed advancement is the cheapest slimmest one ive found.

I use a 1/2" New England hiV with a mini VT bit like boas for lanyard on prunes & a 5/8 steel core with petzl macrograb for takedowns.

jim1nz · 2nd April 2007, 07:32 PM

Great link Boa.
Hey do you know Tom well? He lives in Sidney doesn't he.

Yea i have seen Ekka's steel core flipline it does look good. I hate using the steelcore flipline i have, its bulky/messy, its heavy, and just seems to get in the way when climbing. I have a velocity rope laynard with a positioner on it, its about 2.5 m long and i try to keep the loops around knee level not too much below.

Sorry im getting a little off topic...

Sean Freeman · 2nd April 2007, 08:05 PM

Jim I've only met Tom when I've been spectating, Tom is like most of the TCC climbers I've met in the past 3 years they treat you like a close mate even though they've just met you, he's one of the most helpful friendly guys around, always willing to talk gear with you and share his experiences and help you improve what you're doing in your daily work.

Sean

Eric Frei · 2nd April 2007, 08:43 PM

I'm sure Tom Greenwood is in Melbourne.

What about Brett Hamlin, he's pretty friggin good to.

But these guys are getting on now, well into their 30's, so young new guys should be beating them however experience counts for a lot.

jim1nz · 2nd April 2007, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

But these guys are getting on now, well into their 30's, so young new guys should be beating them however experience counts for a lot.

Haha no doubt Ekka.

I have heard nothing but good things about Tom.

emr · 2nd April 2007, 11:50 PM

When climbing I use different hitches for different applications.
4/2 Distal for ascender back-up in SRT
5/1 Martin with Tenex for DDRT
4/2 VT with Bee-line for DDRT
4/1 Martin with Sta-set for laynard
3 Wrap Prussic on home made adjustable false crotch
and finally sometimes the Blakes for tailing in.

I have found that different cords of different lengths really do make a differance. If you try a certian hitch with a certial cord and it doesnt work for you, ask yourself what other applications can you use it for where it might work.

Sean Freeman · 3rd April 2007, 12:19 AM

By the by Jim1nz deserves special mention for his work (together with notable others) on the Kauri millennium forest project....keeping your light under a bushel Jim?

http://www.waipoua.org.nz/kauri.htm
http://www.waipoua.org.nz/trust.htm

I for one take me hat off to you

Sean

Mike Poor · 3rd April 2007, 04:14 PM

I've really liked the reliability and simplicity of the schwabish. the other day I tried the icicle hitch (a variation of the schwabish) and liked it too I'll try to get a photo sometime.

Fairfield · 5th April 2007, 02:39 AM

Here is anoher couple angles for you to see it.

Tim Craig · 7th April 2007, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrevMcRev

Heres my VT set up. I like splices on everything i can, keeps it neat.
The 2nd biner on the 1st biner rather than the D's helps too and makes for quick disconnect/reconnect over branches in the way of where im heading.
The stubai micro pulley as a slack tender for 1 handed advancement is the cheapest slimmest one ive found.

I use a 1/2" New England hiV with a mini VT bit like boas for lanyard on prunes & a 5/8 steel core with petzl macrograb for takedowns.

Trev,

Does the sit back effect with the VT not annoy you?

And all that slack you have to take up before the slack tender pulley advances the hitch?

TrevMcRev · 9th April 2007, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Craig

Trev,

Does the sit back effect with the VT not annoy you?

And all that slack you have to take up before the slack tender pulley advances the hitch?

Ive tried using the pulley straight off the biner between the VT but didnt like it so live with this. I usually use a mini biner rather than that leash clip which shortens it up a bit but it vanished......

Wood Elf · 17th April 2007, 02:57 PM

Howdy,
I personally climb on the Schwabisch, finding that it's "bar" is in the perfect location for my right thumb to grip and loosen/tighten the knot, much like the Blakes is. In my experience this knot advances easier after loading than the Blakes hitch however. Sorry I don't have a camera handy but found a great article by Mark Adams on this topic, with good photos. Hope he doesn't mind my posting this link: http://www.????????.com/pdf/climbing_hitches.pdf

1st April 2007, 04:20 PM	#1
Eric Frei Admin - Razor sharp and independent 2 X Diploma Level 5 qualified arborist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,820	Friction hitches for climbing lines Inspired from this thread Ekka, whats with the Blakes? We now set out to go through a large variety of the various hitches, advantages and disadvantages, and your preferences etc. Please post a pic of the hitch. Title the post the name of the hitch. __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

1st April 2007, 05:00 PM	#2
Eric Frei Admin - Razor sharp and independent 2 X Diploma Level 5 qualified arborist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,820	Blakes Hitch Traditionally has 4 wraps as per the first picture, the piece that runs across arrowed is called "the bar". As you grip this knot your thumb can open or close the bar to either increase or decrease friction slightly. If it's slipping on you then tighten the bar. Now I use a 5 wrap Blakes, slips less or less manipulation of the bar required. Some say you tuck the tail at the second wrap and some the third ... my experience shows it doesn't make much difference. I like the Blakes as you can use same line as your climbing line although I like a different colour as it makes it easier to distinguish what to grab. The Blakes only works one way. So if you get to the end of your climbing line, re-crotch the tail and want to use the Blakes upside down you are in trouble. A blakes advances easily enough and is a nice large chunks knot to grab minimising finger burns on descents. Attached Thumbnails __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

1st April 2007, 05:12 PM	#3
Eric Frei Admin - Razor sharp and independent 2 X Diploma Level 5 qualified arborist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,820	Prussic Generally you should use a diameter smaller than your climbing line. The loop is usually tied together with a double fishermans but I have seen spliced ones. I girth hitch it to the carabiner so it doesn't slide around. You can have 4 or 6 wraps, try it out for yourself, but not at 100' please! The advantage of this hitch is it's multi-directional, unlike the Blakes if you get to the end of you climbing line you can use the tail and keep on going ... works in either direction. Due to this fact, and also it will grip if you just let go I think it's relatively bulletproof and usually get the new guys climbing on it. The disadvantage is it's a smaller hitch and I get finger burns, it can get too grippy and need dressing again. Attached Thumbnails __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

2nd April 2007, 01:11 AM	#4
TreeCo Mature tree Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Georgia, USA Posts: 307	Vt - french prussic I use a Vt for my lanyard tied directly to my D ring. I use this same hitch for all of my rope climbing. The small double swivel is tied into fisherman's knot which holds it against the D for taking up rope with one hand. Attached Thumbnails

2nd April 2007, 05:32 AM	#5
TREE-SURFER Mature tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Isle of Man,UK. Posts: 337	I use a split tail with a 4 turn blakes. With an adjustable lanyard attached to my side D's, I can then re-crotch quite easily. The harness I use is a Petzl Navaho Full Boss. __________________ The Aerial Arborist Isle of Man Tree Surgeon\| All Aspects of Tree Work What experts say about TOPPING

2nd April 2007, 08:02 AM	#6
Fairfield Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Bucks county Pa USA Posts: 125	I got to go with TreeCo on this one. The only thing I like to do diffrent is have a micro pulley with it and have it on its own biner. The other end of the climbing line is also on a biner. Everything is ment for a speedy disconnect if need be. __________________ Hi yes you know me I am B.A.M.F nice to meet you

2nd April 2007, 08:46 AM	#7
Eric Frei Admin - Razor sharp and independent 2 X Diploma Level 5 qualified arborist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,820	Could you Vt guys show a complete set up on a climbing line like you were ready to go up. And also a close up of the Vt itself. __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

2nd April 2007, 08:59 AM	#8
Sean Freeman Monument Status Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,985	I'll post some shots this arvo Sean

2nd April 2007, 09:28 AM	#9
jim1nz Mature tree Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: International, Germany Posts: 476	I can burn my fingers on any size prussic... Hey guys, can we get some really good prussic/friction hitch links on this thread that people can check out? Have a look how to tie them then possibly have a play with the hitch on the ground or the shed. Then we can discuss the characteristics, performance and query each other about them individually. Any good links? I only have this one http://www.animatedknots.com/indexcl...matedknots.com __________________ SPEED ALWAYS FOLLOWS TECHNIQUE

2nd April 2007, 09:49 AM	#10
TREE-SURFER Mature tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Isle of Man,UK. Posts: 337	Hi Guy's, I was shown the prussic years ago, but found that it tends to bite all too easily and was not easy to loosen when you needed to. I then got taught various frictions and found the best for me is the blakes, as all you need to do is give it a little twist to loosen it. For my working lanyard, I have not long changed to an ISC rope grab after using a VT with a micro pulley to advance. Again, I find the grab alot more easy to use. __________________ The Aerial Arborist Isle of Man Tree Surgeon\| All Aspects of Tree Work What experts say about TOPPING

2nd April 2007, 10:00 AM	#11
jim1nz Mature tree Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: International, Germany Posts: 476	I have tried most and use a mix of many. Klemheist - footlocking Distil/knut - lanyard VT - climbing, the best i have found. VT - Advantages Smooth and controllable all around, especially with swinging descent's Tends slack very well Doesn't bind too bad VT - Disadvantages Twists rope below hitch Wares/burns in one spot I found it hard to learn to tie __________________ SPEED ALWAYS FOLLOWS TECHNIQUE

2nd April 2007, 04:41 PM	#12
Sean Freeman Monument Status Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,985	French prussik and VT Like jim1nz I have tried many different friction hitches but now stick to my 6 wrap French prussik on which I pull down two of the wraps to produce a open kind of VT. When first tied (Oh yeah please don't give me a hard time about the lack of proper stopper knot on the first few I was in a hurry to get the photos before work this morning!) Then when the two wraps are pulled down to form open braids and from the other side . Occaisionally I'll tie a proper VT (with proper stopper ) And here's my lanyard a four wrap french prussik Jim the best site for knots I've ever found is here I presume it belongs to Treespyder http://www.mytreelessons.com/Pages/Knots.htm Sean

2nd April 2007, 04:55 PM	#13
Sean Freeman Monument Status Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,985	Here's some variations on the VT, again from Treespyder Sean

2nd April 2007, 05:00 PM	#14
Eric Frei Admin - Razor sharp and independent 2 X Diploma Level 5 qualified arborist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,820	No wire core lanyard? Nice pics, thanks for that. __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

2nd April 2007, 05:13 PM	#15
Sean Freeman Monument Status Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,985	No only use wire core on heavy td's, used to use mine all the time then had a long chat with Tom Greenwood at TCC's in Sydney and he sort of convinced me of the advantages of using rope lanyard for light work. My wire core has the same four wrap frenchy on it. Sean

2nd April 2007, 05:27 PM	#16
Eric Frei Admin - Razor sharp and independent 2 X Diploma Level 5 qualified arborist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,820	You need to try one of the custom made wire ropes I have, you'd never know there was wire in there. __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

2nd April 2007, 05:36 PM	#17
Sean Freeman Monument Status Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,985	That rope lanyard is a bit over 3m and I use more like a 2nd tip most of the time than a lanyard, funny how you get very used having things set up a certain way on your harness. Where did/do you get those rope loops you use in the knotless vid? Like the way they behave when setting them looks much better that tape. Sean

2nd April 2007, 07:23 PM	#18
Eric Frei Admin - Razor sharp and independent 2 X Diploma Level 5 qualified arborist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,820	Yeah the tape blows around. These you can flick out a bit. I got Allan Drinnen from Arborlink to splice them, the 9/16 double braid are the best. He's a Samson certified splicer for double braid. 9/16 double braid breaking strength is 6000kg so you double that minus 10% for the splice ... you got a 10T sling mate. __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

2nd April 2007, 07:32 PM	#19
TrevMcRev Mature Tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia. Posts: 1,605	Heres my VT set up. I like splices on everything i can, keeps it neat. The 2nd biner on the 1st biner rather than the D's helps too and makes for quick disconnect/reconnect over branches in the way of where im heading. The stubai micro pulley as a slack tender for 1 handed advancement is the cheapest slimmest one ive found. I use a 1/2" New England hiV with a mini VT bit like boas for lanyard on prunes & a 5/8 steel core with petzl macrograb for takedowns. Attached Thumbnails

2nd April 2007, 08:05 PM	#21
Sean Freeman Monument Status Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,985	Jim I've only met Tom when I've been spectating, Tom is like most of the TCC climbers I've met in the past 3 years they treat you like a close mate even though they've just met you, he's one of the most helpful friendly guys around, always willing to talk gear with you and share his experiences and help you improve what you're doing in your daily work. Sean

2nd April 2007, 08:43 PM	#22
Eric Frei Admin - Razor sharp and independent 2 X Diploma Level 5 qualified arborist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,820	I'm sure Tom Greenwood is in Melbourne. What about Brett Hamlin, he's pretty friggin good to. But these guys are getting on now, well into their 30's, so young new guys should be beating them however experience counts for a lot. __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

2nd April 2007, 11:50 PM	#24
emr Sappling Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 23	When climbing I use different hitches for different applications. 4/2 Distal for ascender back-up in SRT 5/1 Martin with Tenex for DDRT 4/2 VT with Bee-line for DDRT 4/1 Martin with Sta-set for laynard 3 Wrap Prussic on home made adjustable false crotch and finally sometimes the Blakes for tailing in. I have found that different cords of different lengths really do make a differance. If you try a certian hitch with a certial cord and it doesnt work for you, ask yourself what other applications can you use it for where it might work.

3rd April 2007, 12:19 AM	#25
Sean Freeman Monument Status Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,985	Forest protection in the land of the long white cloud By the by Jim1nz deserves special mention for his work (together with notable others) on the Kauri millennium forest project....keeping your light under a bushel Jim? http://www.waipoua.org.nz/kauri.htm http://www.waipoua.org.nz/trust.htm I for one take me hat off to you Sean

3rd April 2007, 04:14 PM	#26
Mike Poor Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Urbana, IL,usa Posts: 69	I've really liked the reliability and simplicity of the schwabish. the other day I tried the icicle hitch (a variation of the schwabish) and liked it too I'll try to get a photo sometime.

5th April 2007, 02:39 AM	#27
Fairfield Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Bucks county Pa USA Posts: 125	Here is anoher couple angles for you to see it. Attached Thumbnails __________________ Hi yes you know me I am B.A.M.F nice to meet you

17th April 2007, 02:57 PM	#30
Wood Elf I'm new here so be nice Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 3	Howdy, I personally climb on the Schwabisch, finding that it's "bar" is in the perfect location for my right thumb to grip and loosen/tighten the knot, much like the Blakes is. In my experience this knot advances easier after loading than the Blakes hitch however. Sorry I don't have a camera handy but found a great article by Mark Adams on this topic, with good photos. Hope he doesn't mind my posting this link: http://www.????????.com/pdf/climbing_hitches.pdf

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