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| | #1 |
| Admin - Razor sharp and independent 2 X Diploma Level 5 qualified arborist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane
Posts: 12,820
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Inspired from this thread Ekka, whats with the Blakes? We now set out to go through a large variety of the various hitches, advantages and disadvantages, and your preferences etc. Please post a pic of the hitch. Title the post the name of the hitch.
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| | #2 |
| Admin - Razor sharp and independent 2 X Diploma Level 5 qualified arborist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane
Posts: 12,820
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Traditionally has 4 wraps as per the first picture, the piece that runs across arrowed is called "the bar". As you grip this knot your thumb can open or close the bar to either increase or decrease friction slightly. If it's slipping on you then tighten the bar. Now I use a 5 wrap Blakes, slips less or less manipulation of the bar required. Some say you tuck the tail at the second wrap and some the third ... my experience shows it doesn't make much difference. I like the Blakes as you can use same line as your climbing line although I like a different colour as it makes it easier to distinguish what to grab. The Blakes only works one way. So if you get to the end of your climbing line, re-crotch the tail and want to use the Blakes upside down you are in trouble. A blakes advances easily enough and is a nice large chunks knot to grab minimising finger burns on descents.
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| | #3 |
| Admin - Razor sharp and independent 2 X Diploma Level 5 qualified arborist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane
Posts: 12,820
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Generally you should use a diameter smaller than your climbing line. The loop is usually tied together with a double fishermans but I have seen spliced ones. I girth hitch it to the carabiner so it doesn't slide around. You can have 4 or 6 wraps, try it out for yourself, but not at 100' please! The advantage of this hitch is it's multi-directional, unlike the Blakes if you get to the end of you climbing line you can use the tail and keep on going ... works in either direction. Due to this fact, and also it will grip if you just let go I think it's relatively bulletproof and usually get the new guys climbing on it. The disadvantage is it's a smaller hitch and I get finger burns, it can get too grippy and need dressing again.
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| | #4 |
| Mature tree Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Georgia, USA
Posts: 307
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I use a Vt for my lanyard tied directly to my D ring. I use this same hitch for all of my rope climbing. The small double swivel is tied into fisherman's knot which holds it against the D for taking up rope with one hand.
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| | #5 |
| Mature tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Isle of Man,UK.
Posts: 337
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I use a split tail with a 4 turn blakes. With an adjustable lanyard attached to my side D's, I can then re-crotch quite easily. The harness I use is a Petzl Navaho Full Boss.
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| | #6 |
| Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Bucks county Pa USA
Posts: 125
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I got to go with TreeCo on this one. The only thing I like to do diffrent is have a micro pulley with it and have it on its own biner. The other end of the climbing line is also on a biner. Everything is ment for a speedy disconnect if need be.
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| | #7 |
| Admin - Razor sharp and independent 2 X Diploma Level 5 qualified arborist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane
Posts: 12,820
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Could you Vt guys show a complete set up on a climbing line like you were ready to go up. And also a close up of the Vt itself.
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| | #8 |
| Monument Status Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland
Posts: 1,985
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I'll post some shots this arvo Sean |
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| | #9 |
| Mature tree Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: International, Germany
Posts: 476
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I can burn my fingers on any size prussic... Hey guys, can we get some really good prussic/friction hitch links on this thread that people can check out? Have a look how to tie them then possibly have a play with the hitch on the ground or the shed. Then we can discuss the characteristics, performance and query each other about them individually. Any good links? I only have this one http://www.animatedknots.com/indexcl...matedknots.com
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| | #10 |
| Mature tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Isle of Man,UK.
Posts: 337
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Hi Guy's, I was shown the prussic years ago, but found that it tends to bite all too easily and was not easy to loosen when you needed to. I then got taught various frictions and found the best for me is the blakes, as all you need to do is give it a little twist to loosen it. For my working lanyard, I have not long changed to an ISC rope grab after using a VT with a micro pulley to advance. Again, I find the grab alot more easy to use.
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| | #11 |
| Mature tree Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: International, Germany
Posts: 476
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I have tried most and use a mix of many. Klemheist - footlocking Distil/knut - lanyard VT - climbing, the best i have found. VT - Advantages Smooth and controllable all around, especially with swinging descent's Tends slack very well Doesn't bind too bad VT - Disadvantages Twists rope below hitch Wares/burns in one spot I found it hard to learn to tie
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| | #12 |
| Monument Status Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland
Posts: 1,985
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Like jim1nz I have tried many different friction hitches but now stick to my 6 wrap French prussik on which I pull down two of the wraps to produce a open kind of VT. When first tied (Oh yeah please don't give me a hard time about the lack of proper stopper knot on the first few I was in a hurry to get the photos before work this morning!) Then when the two wraps are pulled down to form open braids and from the other side .Occaisionally I'll tie a proper VT (with proper stopper )![]() ![]() And here's my lanyard a four wrap french prussik ![]() Jim the best site for knots I've ever found is here I presume it belongs to Treespyder http://www.mytreelessons.com/Pages/Knots.htm Sean |
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| | #13 |
| Monument Status Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland
Posts: 1,985
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| | #14 |
| Admin - Razor sharp and independent 2 X Diploma Level 5 qualified arborist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane
Posts: 12,820
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No wire core lanyard? Nice pics, thanks for that.
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| | #15 |
| Monument Status Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland
Posts: 1,985
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No only use wire core on heavy td's, used to use mine all the time then had a long chat with Tom Greenwood at TCC's in Sydney and he sort of convinced me of the advantages of using rope lanyard for light work. My wire core has the same four wrap frenchy on it. Sean |
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| | #16 |
| Admin - Razor sharp and independent 2 X Diploma Level 5 qualified arborist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane
Posts: 12,820
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You need to try one of the custom made wire ropes I have, you'd never know there was wire in there.
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| | #17 |
| Monument Status Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland
Posts: 1,985
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That rope lanyard is a bit over 3m and I use more like a 2nd tip most of the time than a lanyard, funny how you get very used having things set up a certain way on your harness. Where did/do you get those rope loops you use in the knotless vid? Like the way they behave when setting them looks much better that tape. Sean |
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| | #18 |
| Admin - Razor sharp and independent 2 X Diploma Level 5 qualified arborist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane
Posts: 12,820
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Yeah the tape blows around. These you can flick out a bit. I got Allan Drinnen from Arborlink to splice them, the 9/16 double braid are the best. He's a Samson certified splicer for double braid. 9/16 double braid breaking strength is 6000kg so you double that minus 10% for the splice ... you got a 10T sling mate.
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| | #19 |
| Mature Tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia.
Posts: 1,605
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Heres my VT set up. I like splices on everything i can, keeps it neat. The 2nd biner on the 1st biner rather than the D's helps too and makes for quick disconnect/reconnect over branches in the way of where im heading. The stubai micro pulley as a slack tender for 1 handed advancement is the cheapest slimmest one ive found. I use a 1/2" New England hiV with a mini VT bit like boas for lanyard on prunes & a 5/8 steel core with petzl macrograb for takedowns. |
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| | #20 |
| Mature tree Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: International, Germany
Posts: 476
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Great link Boa. Hey do you know Tom well? He lives in Sidney doesn't he. Yea i have seen Ekka's steel core flipline it does look good. I hate using the steelcore flipline i have, its bulky/messy, its heavy, and just seems to get in the way when climbing. I have a velocity rope laynard with a positioner on it, its about 2.5 m long and i try to keep the loops around knee level not too much below. Sorry im getting a little off topic...
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| | #21 |
| Monument Status Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland
Posts: 1,985
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Jim I've only met Tom when I've been spectating, Tom is like most of the TCC climbers I've met in the past 3 years they treat you like a close mate even though they've just met you, he's one of the most helpful friendly guys around, always willing to talk gear with you and share his experiences and help you improve what you're doing in your daily work. Sean |
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| | #22 |
| Admin - Razor sharp and independent 2 X Diploma Level 5 qualified arborist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane
Posts: 12,820
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I'm sure Tom Greenwood is in Melbourne. What about Brett Hamlin, he's pretty friggin good to. But these guys are getting on now, well into their 30's, so young new guys should be beating them however experience counts for a lot.
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| | #23 | |
| Mature tree Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: International, Germany
Posts: 476
| Quote:
I have heard nothing but good things about Tom.
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| | #24 |
| Sappling Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 23
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When climbing I use different hitches for different applications. 4/2 Distal for ascender back-up in SRT 5/1 Martin with Tenex for DDRT 4/2 VT with Bee-line for DDRT 4/1 Martin with Sta-set for laynard 3 Wrap Prussic on home made adjustable false crotch and finally sometimes the Blakes for tailing in. I have found that different cords of different lengths really do make a differance. If you try a certian hitch with a certial cord and it doesnt work for you, ask yourself what other applications can you use it for where it might work. |
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| | #25 |
| Monument Status Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland
Posts: 1,985
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By the by Jim1nz deserves special mention for his work (together with notable others) on the Kauri millennium forest project....keeping your light under a bushel Jim? http://www.waipoua.org.nz/kauri.htm http://www.waipoua.org.nz/trust.htm I for one take me hat off to you Sean |
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| | #26 |
| Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Urbana, IL,usa
Posts: 69
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I've really liked the reliability and simplicity of the schwabish. the other day I tried the icicle hitch (a variation of the schwabish) and liked it too I'll try to get a photo sometime.
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| | #27 |
| Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Bucks county Pa USA
Posts: 125
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Here is anoher couple angles for you to see it.
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| | #28 | |
| Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 132
| Quote:
Does the sit back effect with the VT not annoy you? And all that slack you have to take up before the slack tender pulley advances the hitch? | |
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| | #29 |
| Mature Tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia.
Posts: 1,605
| Ive tried using the pulley straight off the biner between the VT but didnt like it so live with this. I usually use a mini biner rather than that leash clip which shortens it up a bit but it vanished......
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| | #30 |
| I'm new here so be nice Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 3
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Howdy, I personally climb on the Schwabisch, finding that it's "bar" is in the perfect location for my right thumb to grip and loosen/tighten the knot, much like the Blakes is. In my experience this knot advances easier after loading than the Blakes hitch however. Sorry I don't have a camera handy but found a great article by Mark Adams on this topic, with good photos. Hope he doesn't mind my posting this link: http://www.????????.com/pdf/climbing_hitches.pdf |
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