Friction hitches for climbing lines

Martin · 24th February 2009, 04:03 PM

Thanks guys, that all sounds good. My tachyon is about 4 months old with a fair bit of use so I'm pretty sure its not a milking or natural twist issue.Bstewert, my twisting sounds the same as you described. Its not totally consistent so I will definetely mess with my knot and just make it work. The twisting is rarely so bad it becomes really annoying and has never got to the point I had to dump my line out of the bag to untwist it during a rappell. I just thought maybe there was something obvious I was screwing up on the VT. Thanks again.

letigre · 25th February 2009, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bstewert

Then one day I figured it out, I could literally twist the top of the knot right or left to force rope twist in one direction or the other, or keep it straight.

what do you mean? twisting the knot as you descend? i dont understand. ive had the same troubles, happens every week or so, and i just walk or milk my rope out and its fine. i had noticed the figure 8's affect as well and was going to look into it a bit more. im thinking weather might be a factor as well. i've climbed pretty consistantly in the rain for the last month and its been a lot worse. again nothing milking doesnt fix, but id love to find a remedy.

Eric Frei · 25th February 2009, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin

I'm moving from tree to tree without hitting the ground (we use a claw on the west coast to move up to 50ft. between trees while windfirming clearcut edges so we dont have to continually go up from the ground through the limbs on every tree.)

Hey, this sounds kind cool, any chance fo some claw pictures, maybe action shots, because I have no idea what you're using? Maybe a claw on a crance or excavator or EWP?

Anyway, if you can load a pic or two up please.

Oh, on the rest of the discussion I'm not sold the crotch is twisting the rope because you also get twist through a pulley (rope guide).

TrevMcRev · 25th February 2009, 10:43 PM

Im sure martin will respond, but i think he means with a grappling hook, batman style!

Toss across to the next tree, snag a branch, then traverse.

Jeff Darby · 26th February 2009, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrevMcRev

Im sure martin will respond, but i think he means with a grappling hook, batman style!

Toss across to the next tree, snag a branch, then traverse.

Your right Trev, I've seen them else where..They are small and light, be a real biarch if you snag it up though, or your weight pulls it free during a traverse.

Martin · 26th February 2009, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

Hey, this sounds kind cool, any chance fo some claw pictures, maybe action shots, because I have no idea what you're using? Maybe a claw on a crance or excavator or EWP?Anyway, if you can load a pic or two up please.Oh, on the rest of the discussion I'm not sold the crotch is twisting the rope because you also get twist through a pulley (rope guide).

Here are a few shots. The action isn't so great but every time I have a camera of course the light is bad. There is the "claw". It is essentially a grapple. You just rappell in from the tree your in and once your over a limb and secured on a lower limb you just use an ascender attached to your D via a sling and pull yourself along your claw line (usually 60 ft 6 mm static) and rappell of your tree eventually situating yourself in the next tree. This technique is essential for us here production windfirming but I've also found it handy when spurless in a large tree and moving to your second rappell line spot. Its also fun.

letigre · 26th February 2009, 07:36 PM

nice martin! steve sillett had a similar grapple for traversing in redwoods. love to give it a go.

bstewert · 27th February 2009, 04:51 PM

Letigre, you know how you pull down on the top of the knot to descend? I grab the coils and put slight turning pressure right or left, at the same time pulling down, and can make the VT twist the rope one way or the other, or not. Just look at the rope above the knot while descending.

One reason I bought Tachyon is the catalog says it doesn't milk.

Eric Frei · 27th February 2009, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin

Here are a few shots. The action isn't so great but every time I have a camera of course the light is bad. There is the "claw". It is essentially a grapple. You just rappell in from the tree your in and once your over a limb and secured on a lower limb you just use an ascender attached to your D via a sling and pull yourself along your claw line (usually 60 ft 6 mm static) and rappell of your tree eventually situating yourself in the next tree. This technique is essential for us here production windfirming but I've also found it handy when spurless in a large tree and moving to your second rappell line spot. Its also fun.

So you buy these or make them yourself?

Martin · 28th February 2009, 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

So you buy these or make them yourself?

I Have seen something very similar for sale at wesspur which is just south of me in the states. However we all make our own out here. I have a friend who makes a real killer one and mine was an all steel one I got from a friend a few years ago and I recently switched the steel arms with aircraft grade aluminum myself. All the difference in the world.

letigre · 1st March 2009, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bstewert

Letigre, you know how you pull down on the top of the knot to descend? I grab the coils and put slight turning pressure right or left, at the same time pulling down, and can make the VT twist the rope one way or the other, or not. Just look at the rope above the knot while descending.

One reason I bought Tachyon is the catalog says it doesn't milk.

after i posted the other day i actually noticed this. gave it a go and it works ok.

by milk i dont mean the core moving from within the sheath. tachyon has two cores also, the mantle!! i mean milking the twist out, the same as what you would with a twisted hose, except with a prussik.

jim1nz · 3rd March 2009, 11:18 AM

RE the VT twisting your climbing line.

It dont really matter what rope or prussic cordage you use or even what combination you use either its all in the way you tie the VT. You need to change the cross pattern to stop the twisting. The standard VT is tied, from the top of the of the wraps, (so once you have wrapped the prussic around the rope 3 times consecutively for example) the prussic leg goes over, under, over, over and remember its always from the top of the wraps. This alternates what side of the prussic is in contact with the rope, if one leg of the prussic in in contact more than the other, then the rope will be twisted. Sounds confusing but its so simple!

Martin · 3rd March 2009, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jim1nz

RE the VT twisting your climbing line.

It dont really matter what rope or prussic cordage you use or even what combination you use either its all in the way you tie the VT. You need to change the cross pattern to stop the twisting. The standard VT is tied, from the top of the of the wraps, (so once you have wrapped the prussic around the rope 3 times consecutively for example) the prussic leg goes over, under, over, over and remember its always from the top of the wraps. This alternates what side of the prussic is in contact with the rope, if one leg of the prussic in in contact more than the other, then the rope will be twisted. Sounds confusing but its so simple!

Thanks for all the help. Ive been playing with my VT and haven't changed the way I tie it but I have played with the knot once its tied and have noticed a positive change. This is how I tie my knot, 4 wraps starting on the left side of the rope wrapping right. Once Ive done the 4 wraps I take the bottom and cross under, cross over with the top and then alternate. So, 4 wraps 2 crosses. I have tried 3 and 3 and so on but 4 and 2 seems to be the only combination I really trust without going overboard. 3 and 2 was definitely slipping. So if this makes any sense and somebody can tell me I'm definitely screwing up the knot let me know other wise I'll just keep doing it this way. The knot itself performs great I can totally trust it and it operates very smoothly even after a hard stop. And the twisting has been controlled well. So thanks again.

letigre · 3rd March 2009, 06:21 PM

cheers jim. ill have a bit of a play around. thats what i like, simple solutions.

i currently use two wraps and three tresses. it works really well (apart from the twisting). i can picture it in my head and i think one ''leg" is touching more than the other.

(WLL) · 4th March 2009, 02:38 AM

Ive been messing around with a new knot that i call the Letsid, its a distel inverted, thats where the name comes from. Letsid spelled backward is Distel. the Letsid holds tight like its opposite, yet it is easier to free from its locked state

because I'm mostly on my spj2 more testing is required, seems to work well on my lanyard tho. this new variation may be dangerous so use caution when using anything new

jim1nz · 4th March 2009, 08:48 AM

No worries. Another tip is when you have tried different configurations wraps/crosses and you have found one you like, play around with the length of the prussic cordage, this is also crucial for good performance. Soo many options, the best is to simply try things, LOW AND SLOW of course!

jim1nz · 4th March 2009, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by (WLL)

Ive been messing around with a new knot that i call the Letsid, its a distel inverted, thats where the name comes from. Letsid spelled backward is Distel. the Letsid holds tight like its opposite, yet it is easier to free from its locked state

because I'm mostly on my spj2 more testing is required, seems to work well on my lanyard tho. this new variation may be dangerous so use caution when using anything new

A couple of mates in Italy have been using this for a while, seems to work real well for them

(WLL) · 4th March 2009, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jim1nz

A couple of mates in Italy have been using this for a while, seems to work real well for them

so far so goog, your mates give it a name?

letigre · 4th March 2009, 06:29 PM

yeah wll i also played around with the distel. backwards it runs much smoother. we called it the young distel. ie slicker and faster and just generally better

. also did some dead wooding in a big e. saligna today. played around with a few different configs of the vt. varied success. 3 turns and 2 tresses seems to run better than the other configs. twists less. gonna muck around with the length i think. cheers jim. will let you guys know if i find a perfect config.

newguy18 · 5th March 2009, 02:41 AM

Just don't try the vt upside,i did,its good for going down really fast.

(WLL) · 5th March 2009, 03:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newguy18

Just don't try the vt upside,i did,its good for going down really fast.

im not a fan of the vt, thanx fer the heads up

newguy18 · 5th March 2009, 03:51 AM

I tried it for about 2 months,then went back to the tautline hitch.

(WLL) · 5th March 2009, 04:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newguy18

I tried it for about 2 months,then went back to the tautline hitch.

IMO the taut-line is the worst hitch available. if you like that style, did you ever try the Blake's ?fer me the difference is the Blake's shed light in all the dark areas of the taut-line, since then, Ive moved on to bigger and better methods.

newguy18 · 5th March 2009, 05:31 AM

I tried the blakes as well,i just didn't like it,i have no trouble with the tautline hitch.I've never had it sieze up on me either,what problems have you encountered with it?

(WLL) · 5th March 2009, 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newguy18

I tried the blakes as well,i just didn't like it,i have no trouble with the tautline hitch.I've never had it sieze up on me either,what problems have you encountered with it?

the Tl works OK on true-blue, aside from that its the most user unfriendly knot Ive ever worked on

newguy18 · 5th March 2009, 06:07 AM

(WLL) · 5th March 2009, 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newguy18

is that 3 or 2 turns around? looks like safety-blue line, no?

(WLL) · 5th March 2009, 06:52 AM

newguy18 · 5th March 2009, 07:50 AM

Two turns on top,two turns on bottom,safety blue line.I've done it with 3 turns on top and bottom and it works good,but i'm only 200 lbs so 2 over 2 works great for me.

FlashD · 5th March 2009, 02:30 PM

I tried a tautline hitch once, just to compare it to the blakes. The rope I was using was arbor-plex which I can't say I'm fond of, but after that experience, I will never tie a tautline to climb on again.
We do use them a lot for adjustable cabling systems though. Work great in that application.

24th February 2009, 04:03 PM	#91
Martin Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Duncan, BC, Canada Posts: 56	Re: Friction hitches for climbing lines Thanks guys, that all sounds good. My tachyon is about 4 months old with a fair bit of use so I'm pretty sure its not a milking or natural twist issue.Bstewert, my twisting sounds the same as you described. Its not totally consistent so I will definetely mess with my knot and just make it work. The twisting is rarely so bad it becomes really annoying and has never got to the point I had to dump my line out of the bag to untwist it during a rappell. I just thought maybe there was something obvious I was screwing up on the VT. Thanks again.

25th February 2009, 10:43 PM	#94
TrevMcRev Mature Tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia. Posts: 1,605	Re: Friction hitches for climbing lines Im sure martin will respond, but i think he means with a grappling hook, batman style! Toss across to the next tree, snag a branch, then traverse.

26th February 2009, 07:36 PM	#97
letigre Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 158	Re: Friction hitches for climbing lines nice martin! steve sillett had a similar grapple for traversing in redwoods. love to give it a go.

27th February 2009, 04:51 PM	#98
bstewert Sappling Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 36	Re: Twisting the knot Letigre, you know how you pull down on the top of the knot to descend? I grab the coils and put slight turning pressure right or left, at the same time pulling down, and can make the VT twist the rope one way or the other, or not. Just look at the rope above the knot while descending. One reason I bought Tachyon is the catalog says it doesn't milk.

3rd March 2009, 11:18 AM	#102
jim1nz Mature tree Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: International, Germany Posts: 476	Re: Friction hitches for climbing lines RE the VT twisting your climbing line. It dont really matter what rope or prussic cordage you use or even what combination you use either its all in the way you tie the VT. You need to change the cross pattern to stop the twisting. The standard VT is tied, from the top of the of the wraps, (so once you have wrapped the prussic around the rope 3 times consecutively for example) the prussic leg goes over, under, over, over and remember its always from the top of the wraps. This alternates what side of the prussic is in contact with the rope, if one leg of the prussic in in contact more than the other, then the rope will be twisted. Sounds confusing but its so simple! __________________ SPEED ALWAYS FOLLOWS TECHNIQUE

3rd March 2009, 06:21 PM	#104
letigre Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 158	Re: Friction hitches for climbing lines cheers jim. ill have a bit of a play around. thats what i like, simple solutions. i currently use two wraps and three tresses. it works really well (apart from the twisting). i can picture it in my head and i think one ''leg" is touching more than the other.

4th March 2009, 02:38 AM	#105
(WLL) Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: pa Posts: 240	Re: Friction hitches for climbing lines Ive been messing around with a new knot that i call the Letsid, its a distel inverted, thats where the name comes from. Letsid spelled backward is Distel. the Letsid holds tight like its opposite, yet it is easier to free from its locked state because I'm mostly on my spj2 more testing is required, seems to work well on my lanyard tho. *this new variation may be dangerous so use caution when using anything new*

4th March 2009, 08:48 AM	#106
jim1nz Mature tree Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: International, Germany Posts: 476	Re: Friction hitches for climbing lines No worries. Another tip is when you have tried different configurations wraps/crosses and you have found one you like, play around with the length of the prussic cordage, this is also crucial for good performance. Soo many options, the best is to simply try things, LOW AND SLOW of course! __________________ SPEED ALWAYS FOLLOWS TECHNIQUE

4th March 2009, 06:29 PM	#109
letigre Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 158	Re: Friction hitches for climbing lines yeah wll i also played around with the distel. backwards it runs much smoother. we called it the young distel. ie slicker and faster and just generally better. also did some dead wooding in a big e. saligna today. played around with a few different configs of the vt. varied success. 3 turns and 2 tresses seems to run better than the other configs. twists less. gonna muck around with the length i think. cheers jim. will let you guys know if i find a perfect config.

5th March 2009, 02:41 AM	#110
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: orlando,fl Posts: 4,977	Re: Friction hitches for climbing lines Just don't try the vt upside,i did,its good for going down really fast. __________________ Have your say join us today. old schooler

5th March 2009, 03:51 AM	#112
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: orlando,fl Posts: 4,977	Re: Friction hitches for climbing lines I tried it for about 2 months,then went back to the tautline hitch. __________________ Have your say join us today. old schooler

5th March 2009, 05:31 AM	#114
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: orlando,fl Posts: 4,977	Re: Friction hitches for climbing lines I tried the blakes as well,i just didn't like it,i have no trouble with the tautline hitch.I've never had it sieze up on me either,what problems have you encountered with it? __________________ Have your say join us today. old schooler

5th March 2009, 06:07 AM	#116
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: orlando,fl Posts: 4,977	Re: Friction hitches for climbing lines Attached Thumbnails __________________ Have your say join us today. old schooler

5th March 2009, 06:52 AM	#118
(WLL) Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: pa Posts: 240	Re: Friction hitches for climbing lines Attached Thumbnails

5th March 2009, 07:50 AM	#119
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: orlando,fl Posts: 4,977	Re: Friction hitches for climbing lines Two turns on top,two turns on bottom,safety blue line.I've done it with 3 turns on top and bottom and it works good,but i'm only 200 lbs so 2 over 2 works great for me. __________________ Have your say join us today. old schooler

5th March 2009, 02:30 PM	#120
FlashD Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Kansas Posts: 213	Re: Friction hitches for climbing lines I tried a tautline hitch once, just to compare it to the blakes. The rope I was using was arbor-plex which I can't say I'm fond of, but after that experience, I will never tie a tautline to climb on again. We do use them a lot for adjustable cabling systems though. Work great in that application.

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