Flip Lines| Lanyards| Wire Core Pole Straps

Eric Frei

I been, I seen twice and I sat front row.

He had Scotty there for demo, and he showed video of the log levitating technique using the blue and red ropes off other trees with dynamometers for tensioning and lift the log off the cut and moving it away. Very impressive mathematics, which I believe he also takes a lap top and crunches the numbers.

Where, GreenX Sydney maybe 2003 region.

He also displayed the wire core flip line that near cost him his life as the wire broke but he decided to use 2 flip lines. I mentioned to him (he may have forgotten) that it's a design flaw and all those wire core flip lines should be recalled and binned. I also believe he lost a friend or fellow worker to a big regnans, the guy fell. I'm not sure if that's flip line related or not.

I get my flip lines made, I use New England blue highV. They pull the blue core out and shove in 1/4" dia stainless wire. They then place the lot around a thimble and crimp it plus stitch it. Far safer.

I have shown this to many arb people and shops but to this day no-one gives a chit and the flip line where the wire core does all the flexing is still on sale by large "reputable" manufacturers.

If there was ever a person to change this procedure it would be Graeme with that flip line he has as evidence. The reason why this happens is because like getting a piece of wire and for ever bending it back and forth it eventually breaks ... same with his because he's climbing those large trees he advances his flip line with the wave technique, this puts a lot of stress on that wire core (and it's stiff wire) right where the thimble is, and it's only the wire that is there no rope.

I have put a pic of mine so you understand, mine is wire cored but not so stiff.

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Angus

Ah righto, I had no idea!

Interesting stuff about the fliplines... The guy I reakon your talking about is Allistair Murray (sp?) I know he fell, I'm not sure in what circumstances though.

I hear what your saying about the fliplines. Does it cost you much extra to get that kind of work done?

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Angus McMahon
Sherbrooke Tree Service

Eric Frei

It costs maybe $80 a flip line depending on length, the guy can do any length you like, that includes the swaging etc.

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TREE-SURFER

Ekka, you should sell them on Ebay, We're paying like 95 GBP's for a 3M flipline

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TrevMcRev

Interesting refinement on the flipline ekka. If i cant find someone down here to that do you reckon i could get one made and sent down?

Eric Frei

Trouble is they're not tested or certified, like we'd have to get a few and test them then rate them wouldn't we?

They are a lot more pliable, they react more like natural rope so some people dont like them because of that ... I do as it's better on palm fronds and tighter bends, then again, I used one of the stiff ones not long ago and didn't like it, sort of had a mind of it's own.

Trev, what sort of adjuster do you use? Gibbs, Petzel, Moxham?? In other words can the flip line be made and you fit the adjuster later? You just cant do that with a moxham, that's got to be fitted when it's made.

If you use a snap hook that's gotta be fitted also when it's made.

Trev, if you want one just send me the required length of New England High Vee + 200mm for swage crimp, thimble and snap etc.

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MTS247

I have some questions about the wire core flipline breakage
Where did the wire core break?
Isnt the rope that surounds the wire quiet strong?
Or was it the sort that is only made of wire with i very light coating

Eric Frei

It's the typical ones you buy in the shop, take a close look. Only wire goes around the thimble (no rope). They break near the thimble where all the flipping wears away and fatigues the wire.

The one you see in the picture is mine, the green one, way smarter than the ones in the shop!

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MTS247

Yeah, now you mention it.
Do you know if the rope makes up any strength in the wire core? the reason i ask is a mate has one that has been damaged (handsaw cut) and the wire is completely exposed, the boss wont get him a new one cause its only 6months old.

Eric Frei

What could happen is the rope pulls down in a bunch as the jaws of the camming device grab the rope ... like stripping wires for electrical work.

That boss is a tight ass risking lives of a few bucks!

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Knotahippie

You guys talkin' fliplines,

Check this out...

NIOSH FACE Program: Massachusetts Case Report 90MA005 | CDC/NIOSH

This one is kinda' unbelivable...

FACE 9130

MTS247

Now first i should say i like a use wire core fliplines.

But there are in no way chainsaw resistant, i am sure we all know somone thats cut through their wire core flipline. under tension the saw wont even notice it.

I think they give climbers a false sence of security, and the only reason i use them is besause i like the stiffness and the large diameter, but i could get the same from using a larger diameter rope. hmmmm think ill bin mine.

I like using 1 universal flipline rather than 2 or 3 different choices because for conveniance these are usually attached to harness with a biner and we consider that another point of failure, i use a maillon, But each to their own.
There was even talk a while back about using maillon and removing biners all together

treevet

Not a very long time ago there were wire core lanyards without a swivel. There were deaths and injuries from the wire core failure from torquing the metal from side to side and not noticing the deterioration. Live and learn (die and others learn in this case).

TrevMcRev

Theres a new improved flipline by Yale called the Maxi-flip.

It still has wire over the eye, but the difference is where usually they are just crimped, this one the wire itself is actually spliced.

The splice is much stronger than a crimp, which is believed to be a major contributing factor in wire flip line failure.

But it would be even better with the rope all the way over like ekkas.

But ekkas is still a crimped join...

Both combined would be the go.

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Jeff Darby

Superior methods of the finnished product is allways a good thing, BUT, We need to push ongoing checks on your gear as you work.

It's litterally in your hands all the time open your eyes up take a look at your gear as you work,dont just use it,check it aswell,I do ,the rope runs through your hands all day long just be aware of any thing that feels unusuall.

l much rather pick up on deteriation then pick up my climber hoping he's not crippled.

This post is aimed at no one in particular but everyone involved in TreeWork.

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newguy18

I'd like to point out to anyone who uses wire cores,when you buy one get a swiveling snap or biner,the reason being is it won't twist so hard on the splice and in turn make use easier,spliceing cable is better than a crimp.Can't say about the store bought ones,used to make my own but i perfer non steel core.

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old schooler

MTS247

I hear what you are saying about the swivel, i would like to see a few of these broken lines to see if there is any sign of wear on them.

Also i wonder if climbers/employers think these things will last longer because they have a wire core, where as if a rope flipline shows signs of wear we get worried and turf it out. i know i have seen alot of realy shabby looking wire fliplines and the climbers just laugh it off.

Eric Frei

Check out Streyken's 5/8 trawler cable flip line.

Lanyard Adjustment

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Gunslinger

I'm curious to know if anyone has actually tested a steel core lanyard against a chain saw? I know that Arborists' saws are sharp and powerful but when I look at a wire cored lanyard I find it somewhat hard to believe that a saw would rip through it as easily as a piece of rope. If this is true than I agree that a wire core is providing a false sense of security. Are there any tests confirming or denying this?

treevet

I don't know where to find that info. but I vaguely remember it.

I make my own lanyards to use with a microcender. I started using a safety snap. I got so sick of trying to engage the safety release while in an awkward or uncomfortable position that I went back to the non-safety snap. I can just bang it on the D ring and I am stapled to the tree.

IMO, to me, the non-safety snap is safer than the safety snap. (plus they can't get jammed with sawdust like the "safety" snap does sometimes)

OutofMytree

If you search youtube there is definately a steelcore flipline vs chainsaw test as well as a "saw proof pants" v chainsaw demo.

The flipline test is misleading however as it is not under pressure. I have cut a steelcore with an 020 reaching around too far and losing concentration. Blunted the chain and cut through roughly 1/3 of the steel core. I wish i had taken some photo's. It was a bad day to be my flipline. The spare one got run over by my loader later on. Two in the bin on one day....

treevet

I think maybe by nature the steel core has to be very flexible therefore it cannot be as strong or cut resistant as say EHS cable.

newguy18

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old schooler

Knotahippie

Did it cut thru? I couldn't tell.

How bout' a carbide chain...

TrevMcRev

I heard they demo'd this at Burnley and it did cut through.

My opinion is that it MUST take more effort than a rope one under load.

Yes you could cut through steel if you try to, but i still beleive a lightish nick in steel could be a completely severed rope one.

Jeff Darby

Accidents are just that accidents! There not called purposes

However if l could have my choice of what accident l could have lthink l would take a nick to a cable instead of a nick to a rope.

l would survive to tell the tale.

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Join the Australian Tree Association...Have your voice heard !

Arboriculture, A life long study for some, a passing phase for others

© Jeffrey J Darby 2011

treevet

Safety blue braid, my lanyard and climbing line, supposed to be able to gash rope and the interior blue core will keep you up. Seen it happen to a climber. Blue part is harder to cut through. I can't stand the wire core flip line.

Knotahippie

The core of a kermantle rope is only to keep the rope profile round.

Ive also heard that the core is much weaker than the sheath.

Eric Frei

The sheath of kermantle rope (rock climbers rope) is a protective coating to prevent abrasions etc ... the strength is in the core.

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Knotahippie

On arbor ropes too?

Not sure where I heard that now...

Thanks Ekka.