Flip Lines| Lanyards| Wire Core Pole Straps

jim1nz

How i have my Lanyard...

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spartek

What is the purpose of the small "shoestring" size line on the black and gold biner? Also, is that a "spider-Jack" ? I prefer a Gibbs ascender for the take-up device and leave my slack hang behind me, by simply running through an extra ring on the rear of my saddle.The little biner you show for holding the slack up seems like a PITA , IMO, but if it works for you ,great.Thanks for the pics

jim1nz

The "shoestring" is a rated sling which is used when choking around a branch to not side load the carabiner.

Thats a ART positioner. Gibbs wont release under load but each to their own.

The little bina is great for me thanks, saves big loops of lanyard rope dangling at your feet.

(WLL)

very nice set-up. i had a nice little rubber thing i got in the UK for holding a storage loop of rope, just like you are doing with the small length of spliced hollow braid. it was stolen along with a grand or more of gear. it was a huge loss fer me but ill say the first tools i replaced were the the harness, and art gadget's

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TrevMcRev

ahh that sucks WLL.

Ya just dont steal a mans tools

newguy18

Too true trev,theres been alot of tools being ripped off not too far from me.

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old schooler

(WLL)

i've long since recovered. if the thief is flying my old jack its 5 year fatigue warning has run a bit over all my tools are used and used hard, i try to look on the bright side, maybe the thief saved my life any stolen tools he got away with have been up graded to the latest gizmo's, or are the same old same, and just now just gettin broke in

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Straw

I have been thinking about getting a steel core flip-line. After reading this whole thread I must say I'm am a tiny bit leery of steel core flip-lines now. Seams to be a big debate on whats best and what isn't concerning the style of manufacturing vs safety. I kind of like Ekka's custom made one with the rope around the eye for a safety back up, but as was mentioned it isn't spliced or rated (not that it matters compared to what I'm using now). Also I had always been under the impression they were "chainsaw proof" and now I am wondering if they are even considered "chainsaw resistant". Then the debate of "to swivel or not to swivel". Plus the prussic vs metal line grab debate. I currently use a 30' piece of climbing rope set with a prussic (ice tail) and a pulley and either a locking or non locking lanyard for double lanyard tech (pic included). Like Treevet mentioned at times the locking lanyard can be a serious PITA to work. I am wondering what the final view is on the best steel-core flip line and the best hardware/ way to set it up as that was never fully addressed.



Thanks, Straw

Eric Frei

I can say that using one of those Gibbs adjusters without a swivel is a real PITA!

I dont like the prussik idea anymore, bit of sap, sticky stuff etc and it binds too hard.

I'm gonna maybe get one of those ART rope positioners.

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Straw

Ekka do you still get your flip-lines made like that? Or have you found a supplier that you use now. I really like the way that one you had made in the pic looks. Seams to be a pretty sweet custom deal.

I see quite a big difference in the prices on them but they all look almost exactly the same. Any advice on brand or type you guys think are the "best"? I like to keep the weight of my gear down but keep as much functionality as possible. heh I know pretty much everyone does. Weight is a concern as I travel all over with my "kit".

About the ART rope positioner. Is that a one handed set up? I looked at it online but didn't see much information about its function, does it use a pulley to advance it and the lever to release?

Thanks, Straw

Eric Frei

I'm sure it's a one handed thing, just pull the tail of your line.

Yeah that guy still makes those for me, as I touched one up not long ago I had it shortened.

It's not illegal, that's all shit talk as usual from choir boys.

Is it illegal to tie a knot?

If the core of a New England climbing line is removed and replaced with 1/4" stainless wire do you think the rope is weaker or stronger? Of course it's stronger.

Do you think a proper swage and stitched rope around a thimble is at least as strong as a knot if not stronger? Of course it is.

Dont get sucked into all this crap people talk, pen pushing pea brains. If you tied a cinching fishermans onto the thimble that would be OK then.

I even saw some idiot Jims Trees fool say that tying knots in your climbing was illegal or some crap like that because it weakened it's SWL. That's why the SWL is so pathetically low compared to breaking strength.

The Yanks use 10% ave breaking strength as SWL, so a climbing line is like 5,400lb breaking, that's 540Lb SWL, your crapiest most useless knot would still leave 50% strength and you'd have 270Lb SWL. Why is it all like this, to account for abrasion, weather, UV etc ...... it is factored in. Doing what I do to a rope for my own use is OK. If however we were to mass produce these then we'd need to get them tested and batched as per manf best practices and industry guidelines for safety equipment sold.

That swage is not a guess, it is not someone flattening an aluminium tube in press or something. It is done similar to high pressure hydraulic hose fittings, they come in certain sizes, have special jigs to sit in and have certain finished sizes. Squeeze it too much is could cut the rope/crush fibres .... too little it could slip. But like I said, it's back up stitched, it's visible (no heat shrink) and if you wanted to be extra safe you could do a knot or something but in 10 years + NO NEED.

I suppose I could organise for lengths of rope to have the steel core inserted and anyone could do whatever they wanted with it.

The world has gone crazy, I cannot buy an adjuster seperated from the rope. I have to buy a $300 rope lanyard, then cut off the adjuster to stick it on my rope ... why? Because some pea brained wanker is exploiting OHS to drive profit.

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TrevMcRev

Hey Straw,

If you want steel core & light weight the Yale Maxi-Flip Sport would be the choice, provided you're cool with the type of connector it uses.

The ART positioner works one handed, pull line from behind to take in, oull lever to let out. The uniqueness of it is it can let out while under load, like a hitch can. All other mechanical adjusters require you to take your weight off before letting out. IMO it's the best mech. flipline adjuster on the market.

Gunslinger

The advantage of using a hitch is as Trev said that it can be let out under load. Many mechanical devices cannot which is a real hassle. I wouldn't buy a mechanical adjuster again that couldn't be let out under load. I had been using one for a while when I slipped with a little slack in the climbing line and ended up suspended inverted from the flip line. (Don't ask ). A simple let out of a foot or two of the flip line and I could have reached the branch below. With the one-way mechincal adjuster that wasn't happening.

Straw

Thanks for the clarification on the flip-line and ART hardware. Looks like I'll get the Maxi flip sport with the swivel ART.

Thanks, Straw

Gunslinger

After reading the latter portion of this thread I'm likeing the ART Positioner more and more. It comes in two versions, one with an integral swivel and one without. Is there a real advantage to the one with the integral swivel? I checked the Wesspur catalog and found that they only carry the non-swiveling version. I sent them an email and Sean was nice enough to promtly reply:

The non-swivel version is $115, the swivel version, as Sean mentioned is $178.

So my question is, based on the experience of the experts here and on Sean's opinion is the swivel version really necessary?

Garry Brockley

i find that yes the swivel is a necessary, the line rotates slightly as you move either up or down or side to side and the swivel removes the twisting of the krab on your harness.
i use one of these, i also use a prussic on a wire core and a grillon on my normal lanyard and the swivel attachment really makes a difference imho.

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(WLL)

x2

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Therrin

Hehe... sounds like a crummy day. The kind of stuff you never want to happen when the homeowner is watching.


Is the swivel piece really worth the extra $53?

I know ART makes that cocoon pulley that they claim is useable for redirects and noone can figure out how you'd attatch it onto an already running line.
Didnt realize they had other products out.

(WLL)

the cocoon is not mid line friendly and must be fed threw with an end. it can be used in a removable redirect but there are other ways which are mid-line capable and much better to setup

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Cole

my flip line is yale techni colour spliced with a ISC gecko as connector. ive still got a brand new wirecore here that ive had for a while i never had the patience to change my style and get the feel of it. i went from using the petzl microjuster to the ART adjuster, also used the gri gri which realses under load as well for flip-line adjustment but i found it a better use

(WLL)

gri gri is a sweet belay devise, fer runin up em

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ARBORIST WC1714

I'm the 2nd guy that fell out of the tree 19 yrs ago may 5 and thank god I'm here to tell the story. The 1st one I was told was a guy in Australia that fell 30' I did a head dive backwards 15' and landed on my head at the base of a Redwood next to the one I was just starting up,and ripped my head forward so bad I was doing the death crawl praying to god not to go unconscious I had just taken out my handsaw to cut off lowest limb and that motion let the last few wires in cable break I guess. The failure point is where the cable comes out of the rope & against the crimp on the rope which causes metal fatigue from the bending against the rope crimp.and no way to see the breaking strands because they were a couple inches inside the rope where the crimp was, there was another crimp where the wire ended after going around the thimble. I kept the flip line even though they said they'd give me a new one. What a joke, then while going through the legal b/s they came up with a new standard which is you have to be tied in with 2 lines before starting work in a tree, I hearniated 2 discs in my neck & 1 in my lower back which is the one that still kills me after a day in the tree or moving big wood with a hand truck up an aluminum loading ramp. Bigger loads less trips , anyway hope that clarifies the breaking point, Living proof here
" Praise The Lord" Eddie ISA Certified Arborist WC1714 NECK OF THE WOODS TREE SERVICE