crotching the line.

newguy18 · 25th June 2007, 04:01 PM

Hi i'm Bill,I was wondering who else crotches the line to lower limbs logs etc. I don't climb trees full time and was looking at blocks but I decided not to buy one since I don't do it full time yet.While were on the old fasihoned way of doing things I also tail tie my climb line with a taut line hitch I

think it is better than the blakes hitch less friction.

Ekka · 25th June 2007, 04:05 PM

If you are going to natural crotch rig get a tough rope, like 3 strand bull rope.

A nice double braid will get streaked and melted running through crotches, also remember the breaking strength of the rope has to be way more than the weight you cut.

In the USA your safe working limit is 10% of the ropes breaking strength. So a 10,000lb rope is good for 1000lb max loads.

I do a variety of natural crotch and blocks, depends on the tree, but I do prefer blocks and a lowering device strapped to the tree.

newguy18 · 25th June 2007, 04:25 PM

Will do 3 strand i was looking at the bollard lowering device recently.

Ekka · 25th June 2007, 04:34 PM

Start with a port-o-wrap III, for lowering devices the lowering rope is ideally 5/8" dia or less. Keep this in mind if you were thinking of using your natural crotch rope in the lowering device as well.

a_Lopa uses a whopper 3 strand for natural lowering, could be like 1" dia, but they lower out huge euc sections in one hit.

JohN Dee · 25th June 2007, 06:06 PM

There is a pretty huge difference when lowering on blocks compared to natural a heap less friction for one. I only natural crotch lower on very rare occasions where my dad forgets to throw in the porty

.

You said you climb with a fixed tail system, how often do you have to cut off the end of your rope?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

a_Lopa uses a whopper 3 strand for natural lowering, could be like 1" dia, but they lower out huge euc sections in one hit.

Far out, how does he tie knots in that thing?! They'd be huge...

newguy18 · 25th June 2007, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohN Dee

There is a pretty huge difference when lowering on blocks compared to natural a heap less friction for one. I only natural crotch lower on very rare occasions where my dad forgets to throw in the porty

.

You said you climb with a fixed tail system, how often do you have to cut off the end of your rope?

Far out, how does he tie knots in that thing?! They'd be huge...

about every 3 months as i said i don't climb everyday.

Sean Freeman · 25th June 2007, 10:43 PM

Hi newguy18 good to see you over here, the most critical thing i have found when natural crotching is the way you wrap the crotch, always make sure you orientate the rope so it does not clamp down on itself jamming the log or section way up high with little option as to how to free it...yes learnt from painfull personal experience. I think Ekka has a good diagram/drawing of this.

Ekka · 25th June 2007, 11:39 PM

Crikey, Boa even knows what's on my PC!

newguy18 · 4th July 2007, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

Crikey, Boa even knows what's on my PC!

that's a lot different from the way i usually send tops out of a tree it is defenitly easier to tie.thaks

Tree Machine · 7th July 2007, 04:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newguy18

that's a lot different from the way i usually send tops out of a tree it is defenitly easier to tie.thaks

It all goes, depending on the size of the stuff being rigged, as much as the size of the tree.

I used to rig fairly big stuff, a long time ago. We'd use the square neck of the trailer. Position the pickup truck, remove coupling, wrap 4 times, reconnect trailer to the pickup. Po man's bollard. The time I lifted the the truck's asz off the ground.....praying the trailer would not spontaneously uncouple with the brief vision of a garage about to meet a limb and a trailer about to meet a garage.

I got off without incident on that one, but it made me rethink the logic of 'bigger is better.'

Even in the largest of trees an average, normal Arborist would do- Not the California Coastal redwood guy, or the giant Aussie Euc guys or the New Zealand Kauri men. I mean, NORMAL as in all trees less than monstrous. Our bread and butter normal-big tree takedowns.

Here's one we finished the beginning of this week, really big for me, and this one was over three properties, a pole at the base of the tree with power and service coming off it to three residences and a lamp pole, also underneath. There were two fences, each going different directions and a garage of the neighbor's, right below. The far side of the towering crown was over a dense stand of trees owned by the neighbors.

This is the first tree that I have ever chosen another tree company to help me with a job. Usually it's been the other way around.

But I needed this crown out, not in two days, but in 6 or 7 hours. I have never worked a tree with a bucket man, but this cat just got a new 75' bucket. It was too hard to resist, given the sheer number of obstacles below. Did I mention the dogwood tree 3 meters from the base planted as a gift by her Mom?

I must say, this job was a challenge, especially the third of the crown over top of other trees. You don't want to lower stuff into other trees, EVER and not on the neighbor's property if at all possible. The intent was to wood-walk out into the tiny sliver of yard we were calling a drop zone. Instead, I was seeing that was overly complicated rigging and would take too long, I blocked out and bombed the hunks from the middle stem, and we decided to just do some massive swings. In this pick, my mate is fully extended in his 75' reach. That's our rigging point he's workin. I'm in the crown, to the right. We were using natural crotch and 5/8" stable braid.

Tree Machine · 7th July 2007, 04:29 AM

Tree Machine · 7th July 2007, 04:43 AM

I will always cut and lower in accordance with how the cleanup will take place. I never, ever lower gimungous stuff. If I can just drop the whole limb, and it makes sense to do that, then bombs-away, but rigging is a game of 'bigger is more dangerous'. More can go wrong, especially when you have obstacles. How will the material be removed, what can the groundguy handle, is a bigger rig faster than two smaller rigs?

I do all my lowering from up in the tree. I may be stepping out into a minefield of controversy here, but that is just how its always been. Between the lifting of the truck and trailer off the ground day, and the day of this mondo hackberry last week, I had let a ground guy lower something for me once. 10 years, once.

Aerial lowering isn't a method I employ in my rigging scenarios. It IS my method. It's all I know. I lowered all the material from this tree from up there. The bucket guy flew out there and tied off the limbs. One ort the other of us would cut, but I was in normal element lowering the stuff from aloft.

newguy18 · 11th July 2007, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tree Machine

I will always cut and lower in accordance with how the cleanup will take place. I never, ever lower gimungous stuff. If I can just drop the whole limb, and it makes sense to do that, then bombs-away, but rigging is a game of 'bigger is more dangerous'. More can go wrong, especially when you have obstacles. How will the material be removed, what can the groundguy handle, is a bigger rig faster than two smaller rigs?

I do all my lowering from up in the tree. I may be stepping out into a minefield of controversy here, but that is just how its always been. Between the lifting of the truck and trailer off the ground day, and the day of this mondo hackberry last week, I had let a ground guy lower something for me once. 10 years, once.

Aerial lowering isn't a method I employ in my rigging scenarios. It IS my method. It's all I know. I lowered all the material from this tree from up there. The bucket guy flew out there and tied off the limbs. One ort the other of us would cut, but I was in normal element lowering the stuff from aloft.

Nice pics man.

25th June 2007, 04:01 PM	#1 (permalink)
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Live Oak Florida home of the crapiest trees you will ever see. Posts: 2,632	crotching the line. Hi i'm Bill,I was wondering who else crotches the line to lower limbs logs etc. I don't climb trees full time and was looking at blocks but I decided not to buy one since I don't do it full time yet.While were on the old fasihoned way of doing things I also tail tie my climb line with a taut line hitch I think it is better than the blakes hitch less friction. __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related

25th June 2007, 04:05 PM	#2 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,606	If you are going to natural crotch rig get a tough rope, like 3 strand bull rope. A nice double braid will get streaked and melted running through crotches, also remember the breaking strength of the rope has to be way more than the weight you cut. In the USA your safe working limit is 10% of the ropes breaking strength. So a 10,000lb rope is good for 1000lb max loads. I do a variety of natural crotch and blocks, depends on the tree, but I do prefer blocks and a lowering device strapped to the tree. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

25th June 2007, 04:25 PM	#3 (permalink)
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Live Oak Florida home of the crapiest trees you will ever see. Posts: 2,632	Will do 3 strand i was looking at the bollard lowering device recently. __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related

25th June 2007, 04:34 PM	#4 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,606	Start with a port-o-wrap III, for lowering devices the lowering rope is ideally 5/8" dia or less. Keep this in mind if you were thinking of using your natural crotch rope in the lowering device as well. a_Lopa uses a whopper 3 strand for natural lowering, could be like 1" dia, but they lower out huge euc sections in one hit. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

25th June 2007, 10:43 PM	#7 (permalink)
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,649	Hi newguy18 good to see you over here, the most critical thing i have found when natural crotching is the way you wrap the crotch, always make sure you orientate the rope so it does not clamp down on itself jamming the log or section way up high with little option as to how to free it...yes learnt from painfull personal experience. I think Ekka has a good diagram/drawing of this. __________________ Sean Trees are poems that earth writes upon the sky, We fell them down and turn them into paper, That we may record our emptiness. - Kahlil Gibran

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