Correct rope

Don in LA

Greetings! I'm a newbee. I have several 80'-90' pine trees to fell in my back yard and I need recommendations on the best type, size and supplier of rope for directionally pull the trees. I am also looking for information on the best type and size pulley and anchors for the pulley. I have good anchor points, other trees. I plan on attaching the pulley to another tree, running the rope from the tree that is to be cut, through the pulley and then to a truck located a safe distance away. I'm a retired firefighter and I am familiar with most knots, caribeeners, anchor points, etc. I have a good (used to be) rope now but it has some age on it. I've pulled several trees with it in the past but it is getting old. I don't want to take any chances. Any recommendations on rope, pulleys, anchor points, beeners, etc. will be appreciated.

Thanks,

Don

Gunslinger

Don, are you looking to drop the entire tree in one shot with a pulley attached to an adjacent tree and a rope though the pulley and then attached to a truck?

newguy18

Gs,its a very common method of pulling trees,as long as you don't floor the vehicle your pulling with,i know a lot of people will advise against it,but it is effective.I recommend a good heavy rope,5/8" or better,no less than 11k breaking strength.I would use a block instead of a pulley though.

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old schooler

Grais

A 1/2" rope will work just fine, if all you are doing is directionally pulling the tree, ie that is they have no severe lean and are basically easy fallers, using the rope as insurance against falling in any other direction. Generally tho we accomplish this with a hand pull, be it Z rigged(rigged with a 2 pulleys one at the base of a anchor tree the other placed in a purchase on the pull rope, then the working end is threaded through pulleys giving you great mechanical advantage) or not.
We pull trees with trucks all the time, but if you feel you NEED THE TRUCK to pull the trees, they are probably more severe leaner then you can handle safely, I know pulling over trees looks and seems easy as hell, but there are literally hundreds of variables that can affect the fall and you'll only discover them after the fact, then it is too late.
I recommend getting an arbo to look at it.

Good luck, and be safe regardless.
-Grais

Gunslinger

Maybe a couple of photo's would help.

Don in LA

Thanks for your replies. Yes, I am planning to (and have in the past) anchor the rope to the tree to be cut, through the pulley attached to an anchor tree and then to the pulling truck. I've done this in the past and I have had success BUT it is a little scary. I'm a little apprehensive about putting too much tension on the rope and causing something to fail. And, of course, you can't tell visually if the rope system has too much tension on it when using the truck. And you never know if the truck driver will have too much gas. Using a come-a-long is sounding like a better option. At least when using the come-a-long the tension can be felt.

Why would using a block be better than a pulley? How would it best be utilized? Recommendations on type of block, pulley, rope? Also, what knots would you recommend to use when anchoring/attaching caribeeners, etc? As a retired firefighter I've had some experience with knots but this is a different ball game. Since visiting this site I have a lot more respect for arborist/climbers! I've used figure 8's quite a bit but they are difficult to untie after applying tension. Maybe it's a case of too much tension when using the truck! I'll see if I can get some pictures. Using a computer is not one of my strong points though. I'm technology challenged. I'd rather fight a 2-alarm fire. Thanks!

Don

Gunslinger

Don, I'm not an arborist but I do have experience in rigging. IMO a block won't be necessary in this application since there won't be a large shock load. If a pulley is used, and tension kept within the working limits of the pulley, it should be sufficient. You can get a 5/8" 20,000# rated (WLL is about 20-25% in a non-shock loaded application) pulley from Wesspur for $57. I would add a 5/8" bull rope. You could always go with an 5/8" arborist block for about another $50 if you think that you may use it at some point in a shock loaded application.

Don in LA

OK, my ignorance is showing here but what is a bull rope? I feel like I'm in rookie school again. And, any recommendations on the best knot to use for attaching to anchor points? I'm still trying to untie a figure 8 knot. Thanks for the referal on the Wesspur pulley.

Gunslinger

A bull rope is a rigging rope. You can checkout Wesspur or Sherrill for a wide array of rope types,prices and applications. I'll defer to the professionals as to what the best knot is for this application.

Grais

Bull ropes are expensive, are you sure you are saving money doing it yourself ?
The recommendation I made in the PM should be fine for all but the largest trees, if all you are looking for is a directional guarantee. The micro pulley is stronger than all but the strongest half inch line, and would be fine.
To be completely honest we have Z rigged trees without pullies or 'biners for years. Set the rope in tree to be fell, take working end around the butt of anchor tree, and back to the bight on the rope, formed by tying a double bowline on a bight, then rope is taken back to the anchor tree, there you can pre tension the rope and tie it off.
This is a standard technique used daily.
just to clarify the procedure would go as follows....
1: set the rope in tree

2: run the rope to anchor tree and around the base, pick a good strraight strong tree

3: put the bowline on a bite in the rope, its placement depends on length of rope, amount of pull needed etc...

4 thread working end of rope through the bite or purchase(as it is referred to as well), then run back to the anchor

5:snug the rope up to remove all slack and chek your rigging
5a:: this is debatable a bit, but you can place your undercut before you tension the tree if you like

6:tension the rope,and tie off, it doesn't take much tension to induce a fall in a straight or almost straight tree.

7lace the backcut in the tree and watch her fall, if you need further pulling, then you have to have groundies on the rope, or another system in place

That is a simple way of rigging and dropping a tree with a rope only and means to get said rope, in the tree.

I kid you knot(lol) I know climbers who don't even own a 'biner, it is getting rarer these days, but when I started no one used them for anything. Most guys have a block, but only use them for the biggest gnarliest trees.
Not necessarily my style but it does work.
The addition of simply a carabiner placed in the purchase, the loop the rope runs through on the 'bowline on a bite' takes the rope on rope friction out of the equation.
Again not trying to confuse you, your welcome to PM me if you have questions you need to have clarified or whatever.
Just be safe bro,
-Grais.

newguy18

I recommend a running bowline be used to anchor the rope to the tree,i also highly advise the pull rope be set at least 3/4 of the way up the tree,i've done this a lot and it is risky,good communication between you and the truck driver is key,preplan so you both know what has to go down.

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Don in LA

Grais and Newguy- Thanks for the helpful info. I'll go ahead and do the job myself. I have 5 trees to take down. Taking my time and doing it safely is the key. They are tall (80-90') straight pines. I can fell them myself and then just take my time cutting them into manageable pieces. I'll probably go ahead and buy another bull rope. I'll have other uses for it. Our river floods on a regular basis and I usually help my son and neighbors secure their boats outside of their slips. Last year we had to run a rope from my son's boat to his neighbor's piling, about 75' away. Thanks again.

Eric Frei

When using vehicle pulls insert a steel clevis shackle between the bowline loop and pull line. This will prevent rope on rope friction and bowlines lose some 40% of rope strength. Make sure the "pin" of the shackle is in the loop as you run it up the line so it cant undo.

I'm saddened to see how many times this is neglected, especially when it's SOP in all my videos!

The shackle in this pic is rated SWL 4.5T and cost less than $10.00, don't be a fool or a scab!

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stargazer

I agree.

I'm not a trained arborist or climber. I have however felled trees all my life, and I'm getting up there in years. I've felled numerous trees in tight spots, i.e., buildings and wires in the way, not to mention other trees. They tend to run around 80 feet in this area.

I agree 1/2 inch line is fine for the job. This is not a climbing job, so fancy, pricey rope is not necessary. Plain old 1/2 inch twisted nylon will be more than adequate, in my experience. Good and cheap and strong, with some give to it. Heck, just reaching up with a handheld 16 ft. pole and pushing works wonders, and you probably push what, around 100 lbs?

Keep in mind:

-The tree stem is your lever, the higher you get the rope, the more leverage you have. I like to climb up and tie off way up there for the most leverage. While up I trim weight off the side away from my fall. But if you don't or can't climb, make a lasso with a bowline and push it up the tree with something. I use a roof rake with an aluminum handle when the tree is unsafe. Use a plumb line to help estimate natural fall.

- The moment the tree moves the tension becomes less. So I set my lines, then make the notch. Then I take up a good bit of tension. Then I make the backcut, leaving the hinge oversize. I then walk way around and get back to the come along. I crank it up and when the tree starts to go I grab the line and pull it sideways. Pulling a taut line so it bends adds terrific force, that's why suspension bridges use slack lines. If I expect trouble I hang weight on the line before I crank it up into the sky. For weight I usually use limbs with a stub hooked on the line. The weight pulls on the rope as the tree moves.

- The most important part is making good cuts. Somewhere on this site I've seen an excellent discussion of cuts, hinges, and backcuts. Make sure your undercut is accurate and aiming in the direction of fall. Be careful to make the hinge even on both sides or the tree will twist towards the thicker side. Use wedges on larger trees, just cut some (wedges) from wood. For fun I usually estimate where the tip will hit, then put a target there and try to hit it, good practice for tight spots.

Wish I'd taken pictures of some of the horror shows I did. Here are some of easy pine work where they all lean into the tiny clearing with the camp and boat. I had the power line to the camp dropped for the day.

Away from the bow of the sailboat:



Towards the bow of the sailboat:



Between the stern and the camp:



Looking out the camp door:

stargazer

I'm unclear what the two ropes are doing in the picture. I'd like to understand since I'm on this site because I respected the info from "Ekka" so much. I've survived on common sense only, no training or shared info till now.

Don in LA

Thanks again guys for the tips on rigging, etc. I don't have near the experience that you guys do in felling trees but I have cut several. If the tree isn't leaning much, and there isn't anything of value in the way, I can usually put the tree pretty much where I want it without pulling. However, the trees in question are too close to my home for comfort. Using pulleys sounds good and that's a good tip in using the shackle on the bowline. As I've mentioned before, pulling trees with a truck does make me nervous because it's impossible to guage the applied stress. Several years ago I had to cut a couple of trees and I was unable to get my usual helpers to come over. So, I secured a rope about 20' up the 60' to 70' trees and, about halfway between the 20' tie-off and the ground anchor, I secured a 55 gallon drum. That put the drum about 15' off the ground. After I hand tightened the line, I made my notch cut then I filled the drum with water from a hose that I had secured to the drum before I hoisted the drum. It put pretty good tension on the line, but not too much. When the drum was full I made the back cut and the tree made a perfect landing. Also, the water-filled drum does keep some tension on the line until it lands. Obviously, it's better to use plastic drums. They usually survive the landing pretty well.

Garry Brockley

Stargazer its only one rope, not the best pic, the rope has a bowline at the end with a shackle, the rope is passed around the branch and one behind it then through the shackle and down to the person pulling.

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stargazer

Thanks, Galbee, much clearer now! Good idea for that awful weak point where the rope tries to cut itself.

I usually climb up and use two half hitches so the rope is cutting the tree more than itself. But during ice storms when the trunk is coated solid with ice an inch thick, or on trees in a state of collapse with a disintegrating stump, I've used the bowline and slid it up the unsafe tree. I like the shackle much better.

Thought I should have included a photo that had the stump in it so the hinge is visible. Maybe not clear that the backcut was level and above the deep undercut used to put weight on the side I needed it:

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Eric Frei

That's pretty good.

We can see the butt end of the log, pretty thick hinge, you'd be going to get that over if it were one of our gums with a hinge that thick.

I too use a pole to shove a rope up the trunks of palms here.

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stargazer

White pine, nice soft but good quality and workable wood. At one time the king's men stamped the best white pines in Maine for ship's masts and spars. Also, they tend to grow tall and lean with a high crown, so the weight is high and there is a lot of leverage. I can't remember for sure if I used a rope on that one, but I may have, to drop it in the pocket for sure, didn't want to hit the concrete well tile, the sailboat, or the camp, which is just to the right almost in the picture.

I think you have lots of good hardwoods there, and big ones? I''m too far north for the better hardwoods, though we have some. Sugar maple, ash, oak, and the heaviest but rare, black locust (with thorns). Most are not too big, been cut over often.

Hey, Whohoo! I can edit suddenly. I hate to leave mistakes that I see after I post! Is there a time limit?

Gum tree? Never "saw" one. Are they really hard? Palm trees? Went to Florida for three days on March 15th and saw lots! Didn't bring a saw though, and they were all planted ornamental$. Are they wood inside, or just fiber?