conventional figure-8

newguy18 · 8th January 2008, 05:23 PM

it still pivots but not as much and you can get more pivoting from doing a conventional notch with a flat bottom.You really have to try it for yourself.for rotten tops your unsure of it eliminates setting back.give it a go Eric.

Ekka · 8th January 2008, 05:26 PM

Hang on, what difference does the angle back cut make then if it still has to pivot?

Are you saying that some how it prevents the saw bar getting jammed from the tree sitting on it?

newguy18 · 8th January 2008, 06:14 PM

Your missing the point.i use it in really rotten trees the you can't afford the risk of a top or tree setting back[like right up against a building or lines]and it still pivots but not as much as a conventional felling cut and it can't fall backwards.as soon as it starts to go over even if it would attempt to set back like in a leaner it would slide off of the cut.Itb works really well in goosed out trees that your felling as well but like I said earlier if it gets hung up in another tree theres a good chance that i could jump the stump so if that anticapated as soon as it starts going over get out.Its mainly something I use in rotten tops and trees.

JohN Dee · 8th January 2008, 10:53 PM

I like to give the thumbs up signal when I take out the head. Before most of my cuts I usually get the thumbs up from the person on the lowering rope aswell as the person on the pull.

shaggs · 9th January 2008, 01:23 AM

Yeah thumbs up or good knod of the head for the groundies.
Strickly no yelling though. The only yell will be "below" for eg; breakout of deadwood.

Therrin · 9th January 2008, 01:32 AM

The only yelling I'm still used to is ...

ROCK!!!!!!!!!

The international yell for *any* falling object while you're clipped in.

Any climbers out there should know this one. (quercus?)

JayD · 9th January 2008, 02:18 AM

HEADS....................

newguy18 · 9th January 2008, 05:56 AM

headache.

DBS · 11th January 2008, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newguy18

headache.

I like to get visual of all groundies (eye contact if possible) Shout out HEADACHE!! Then when they hear the saw start they know whats to be expected.

-Daryl

quercus · 11th January 2008, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

Hang on, what difference does the angle back cut make then if it still has to pivot?

Are you saying that some how it prevents the saw bar getting jammed from the tree sitting on it?

I'd have to agree with newguy on this. We do this all the time and it does work. It's just a case of simple mathematics. Whe the surface of the cut is angled, it is bigger and has more square inches. So the pressure per square inch is less then if the cut was horizontal. We also use it on tops, ekka, because indeed, like newguy says, it keeps the top from sliding away on the back side where the climber is. Tests have shown that 1200 kg per square centimeter is needed to pull a hinge on a oak tree apart in the vertical direction. So if the cut is angled the pulling force on the wood is much less then if it where horizontal and will therefore less easily break apart in the wrong direction. If a top of a pine gets hung up when falling down, you actually could saw through the hinge and the top would still slide off of the cut in the right direction. When using this on hung up tops, you do have to realize that sometimes the upper branches of the top come back to the tree you're working on when falling down.We've been using this technique hundreds of times, it does work, but one has the know the math and the mechanics of it before using it.

Ekka · 11th January 2008, 10:54 PM

Newguy18 and Quercus,

This goes for me too, be patient, I'll start a thread soon for angled back cuts ... please dont continue that discussion here.

And take it to this dedicated thread thanks.

Angled back cut| backcut| tree felling| back cuts

arborjockey · 12th January 2008, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arborjockey

True arborist work at the top speed of safe. The first person who taught me rigging techniques told me strait faced "If anyone on the ground EVER tells you to speed up. Climb down and go home". Never pull on tree with a winch while your in a tree. A good climber was killed when the cable broke, hit him in the hard and split his head. Tell your uncle to learn mechanical advantages by using ropes and blocks/pulleys(fiddleblock). You can get a more even, controlled pull.

I should have been more specific in that "wench" I meant cable. not a big fan of cables in that their inferier to rope. By that I mean their One stonger by weight and two when a rope snaps it lays flat. People also get lazy with the use of winchs. I think if you have to pull with more then say 2-3000 pounds. The top has to much lean or you need to defoliate it. A crane is a different matter it pulls up and away not down and parallel. But thats my unexpert opinion.

Ekka · 12th January 2008, 02:06 PM

There's modern hitech fibres stronger than cable these days anyway, stronger, lighter and wont stab you.

soutz · 12th January 2008, 07:43 PM

i think in some ways we are missing the point of the thread. one young mans version does not match the older mans version. now from experience which one would you believe.? how do we as older wiser and still alive hand on the respect needed to get to be a bit older in this game?
the last 5 or so young guys i have started training have little or no respect for how quickly accidents happen and how deadly they can be. Also very little passion for learning a craft as well as a profession.
is this just me or is it harder to get someone who relises that first we must master the leaf rake?

Ekka · 12th January 2008, 08:40 PM

PSSSsssst

I nick named him Young Bull for a reason on the first day we met.

newguy18 · 12th January 2008, 09:21 PM

soutz I understand the leaf rake thing all to well.when I was 13 I told my dad I wanted to get into landscaoing and he took me to his mom's house and put me to raking a 1/2 acre by hand.I did that 3 times a year and there are actually tricks to using a rake.man did I get some blisters.

8th January 2008, 05:23 PM	#26 (permalink)
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Live Oak Florida home of the crapiest trees you will ever see. Posts: 2,833	Re: conventional figure-8 it still pivots but not as much and you can get more pivoting from doing a conventional notch with a flat bottom.You really have to try it for yourself.for rotten tops your unsure of it eliminates setting back.give it a go Eric. __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related

8th January 2008, 05:26 PM	#27 (permalink)
Ekka Admin - Dip Arb & Hort Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 7,675	Re: conventional figure-8 Hang on, what difference does the angle back cut make then if it still has to pivot? Are you saying that some how it prevents the saw bar getting jammed from the tree sitting on it? __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding and Stump Removal Brisbane Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations, Developer, Tree and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

8th January 2008, 06:14 PM	#28 (permalink)
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Live Oak Florida home of the crapiest trees you will ever see. Posts: 2,833	Re: conventional figure-8 Your missing the point.i use it in really rotten trees the you can't afford the risk of a top or tree setting back[like right up against a building or lines]and it still pivots but not as much as a conventional felling cut and it can't fall backwards.as soon as it starts to go over even if it would attempt to set back like in a leaner it would slide off of the cut.Itb works really well in goosed out trees that your felling as well but like I said earlier if it gets hung up in another tree theres a good chance that i could jump the stump so if that anticapated as soon as it starts going over get out.Its mainly something I use in rotten tops and trees. __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related

8th January 2008, 10:53 PM	#29 (permalink)
JohN Dee Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 839	Re: conventional figure-8 I like to give the thumbs up signal when I take out the head. Before most of my cuts I usually get the thumbs up from the person on the lowering rope aswell as the person on the pull. __________________ Don't tell me the sky is the limit, when there are footprints on the moon. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Red : Green : Blue

9th January 2008, 01:23 AM	#30 (permalink)
shaggs Mature tree Join Date: May 2007 Location: sydney Posts: 464	Re: conventional figure-8 Yeah thumbs up or good knod of the head for the groundies. Strickly no yelling though. The only yell will be "below" for eg; breakout of deadwood.

9th January 2008, 01:32 AM	#31 (permalink)
Therrin The Tree World Bandit Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Lancaster, Ca Posts: 1,318	Re: conventional figure-8 The only yelling I'm still used to is ... ROCK!!!!!!!!! The international yell for any falling object while you're clipped in. Any climbers out there should know this one. (quercus?) __________________ Ken Fessia I.T.S.A. Tree Service (661) 916-4703

9th January 2008, 02:18 AM	#32 (permalink)
JayD Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sydney Posts: 992	Re: conventional figure-8 HEADS.................... __________________ Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory

9th January 2008, 05:56 AM	#33 (permalink)
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Live Oak Florida home of the crapiest trees you will ever see. Posts: 2,833	Re: conventional figure-8 headache. __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related

11th January 2008, 10:54 PM	#36 (permalink)
Ekka Admin - Dip Arb & Hort Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 7,675	Re: conventional figure-8 Newguy18 and Quercus, This goes for me too, be patient, I'll start a thread soon for angled back cuts ... please dont continue that discussion here. And take it to this dedicated thread thanks. Angled back cut\| backcut\| tree felling\| back cuts __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding and Stump Removal Brisbane Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations, Developer, Tree and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

12th January 2008, 02:06 PM	#38 (permalink)
Ekka Admin - Dip Arb & Hort Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 7,675	Re: conventional figure-8 There's modern hitech fibres stronger than cable these days anyway, stronger, lighter and wont stab you. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding and Stump Removal Brisbane Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations, Developer, Tree and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

12th January 2008, 07:43 PM	#39 (permalink)
soutz Sappling Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: new zealand Posts: 45	Re: conventional figure-8 i think in some ways we are missing the point of the thread. one young mans version does not match the older mans version. now from experience which one would you believe.? how do we as older wiser and still alive hand on the respect needed to get to be a bit older in this game? the last 5 or so young guys i have started training have little or no respect for how quickly accidents happen and how deadly they can be. Also very little passion for learning a craft as well as a profession. is this just me or is it harder to get someone who relises that first we must master the leaf rake?

12th January 2008, 08:40 PM	#40 (permalink)
Ekka Admin - Dip Arb & Hort Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 7,675	Re: conventional figure-8 PSSSsssst I nick named him Young Bull for a reason on the first day we met. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding and Stump Removal Brisbane Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations, Developer, Tree and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

12th January 2008, 09:21 PM	#41 (permalink)
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Live Oak Florida home of the crapiest trees you will ever see. Posts: 2,833	Re: conventional figure-8 soutz I understand the leaf rake thing all to well.when I was 13 I told my dad I wanted to get into landscaoing and he took me to his mom's house and put me to raking a 1/2 acre by hand.I did that 3 times a year and there are actually tricks to using a rake.man did I get some blisters. __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related