company climbing kits

Tree Machine · 26th January 2008, 09:34 AM

I'm finding a lot of value in all sides here, because I'm coming from a place where no one else is, and I can take valuable nuggets from you, and you, and you.

We each come from our own experiences, so defending why we do what, and how and why, c'mon. We are thousands of men, each with unique, individual experience backgrounds. Some of us are way advanced, having worked with many dozens of different systems and saddles and an ocean of technical gear.

Some of us think we know everything, and have just moved from a Blake's to a distal.

It's amazing we can communicate at all.

I'm also bringing on a team of two, starting next week, one is a pro-climber, the other his trusty groundguy, who we may or may not be setting up to climb.

I am taking a little from all sides to plan my gear choices with these cats, who will only be here 90 days.

See, there is no 'one advice covers all.'

dguntertrees · 27th January 2008, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newguy18

i'm not trying to start a fight but are you saying that a climber isn't fit to inspect his own gear?

No, I'm not saying that at all. The government is.
Although I will say that, after working with new climbers a lot over the past 10 or so years, I've found that, because they dont get paid enough they tend to hold on to their gear for as long as possible.
If you're the boss, and their kit stuffs up, who do you reckon is responsible?

NOT THEM

newguy18 · 27th January 2008, 06:49 AM

okay gotcha.

Tree Machine · 27th January 2008, 07:43 AM

My personal approach will be, I won't buy them anything I wouldn't use my self.

Now to buy a low-budge saddle, just because they're noobies, I would not myself, climb in that, knowing what I know now about performance and comfort and confidence and how that all relates to income and overall smooth workings.

If you're a cheap boss, you buy based on price. If you're the other kind of boss, you get what you need to have your company where you want it. Each company is individual and unique.

Here in the US, there's no real rules or enforcement of rules if you work alone. But when you work amongst other people, it becomes a different story. Your worksite is your responsibility toward safe work practices and necessary PPE. If I'm gonna buy him a saddle, it would be sin to offer him more limitations and less versatility than what a modified pro saddle would do. If he's in a saddle better than mine, he's equipped to do what the big guys do. If he is in a crap saddle, how can I ever expect him to progress and do amazing things.

newguy18 · 27th January 2008, 07:52 AM

if i ever become a fair sized buisness where i train another climber i ain't buying him what i climb in now.
http://www.esscodist.com/shopsite_sc...a/08-01025.jpg

Tree Machine · 27th January 2008, 09:53 AM

These will be company issue. I want the fellow worker to have the highest possible advantage on shooting a line, and I need his acccuracy rate around the same as mine, a hundred percent, give or take a point.

If I want him to consistently drain shots in the 20-25 meter range. I need him to then wind his line up swiftly and get on with the finer points of climbing and pruning. Since I want shotline managed with the greatest of speed and ease, I have choice nonother than to provide the guys with at LEAST the same gear, and nothing less. Then, the skill of ropesetting is no longer influenced so much by clumsy gear. Time is no longer spent in flaking line, stuffing pouches, etc. Since I am making it a requirement that these reels be used on my jobsites, I must provide them.

ozinus · 27th January 2008, 09:58 AM

You still have to unwind those don't you ?? What a great engineering idea to have these with bearings so they can unspool off the throw.

Tree Machine · 27th January 2008, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ozinus

You still have to unwind those don't you ??

No, you fire right off the reel, Ozinus. 20-25 meter range is max on an off-the-reel deployment. 75 feet has been my best shot, right off the reel.

And new guy gets to start out with a new BigShot and pole, not necessarily to keep, but if he can save the company time by just being extremely efficient in rope-setting, he can earn the ownership.

Time is money and if you can set ropes professionally, you are a valuable person to the team.

ozinus · 27th January 2008, 10:06 AM

How do they unspool is it tapered??

Tree Machine · 27th January 2008, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ozinus

How do they unspool is it tapered??

No, cylindrical. The first 1/3 of the line is applied strategically to create the taper.
The final 2/3 of the length of line finishes the taper / slope and the remainder is wound for maximum deploymentability. Last on, first off, is the promise you don't necessarily get with stuff-sacks and F-cubes. And stuffing is so painfully slow.

This thread is not for the discussion of the reel itself, but how it affects or is implemented in the company for new hires as part of a kit. We should talk about those things.

Communication, I think is so important, yet on a TREE JOBSITE you have noisy stuff going on, men wearing muffs, distances between men. On-site, jobsite, clear connection to one another is challenging. I'm considering radio headset/com hearing protection. When it's quiet and you can hear one another, not running machinery and you're close enough, You use voice.

But if you are 60 feet up in a tree and you're keeping a keen eye on the tail end of your new lifeline, and the guy feeding the chipper isn't seeing that his brush has your tail in a tangle. While he is diligently feeding chipper like the big dog that he is, I really need to speak clearly into his ear, "Dude, my rope!"

That's all. It's all chip technology.

So much of what goes on in a tree jobsite, most everything of instruction, or safety, needs to be done as-needed and in-the-moment. That is not unique to treecare. This is ANYWHERE where jobsite noise and communication across distances, and that's about everywhere that uses gas-powered tools.

Situation above...Without walkie-talkie type communication, I will scream and wave and hopefully remembered to wear my whistle, and he's got muffs on and is doing his job and can't hear me. I hope he doesn't get caught up in the rope when it goes through....... I have three seconds to unclip from this line.......

ozinus · 27th January 2008, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a_lopa

What harnesses are you guys buying to put into "company owned climbing kits"?

Im doing some hiring/training so the kits might be used by a few people who may/may not want to learn.

K so that as far as I know is the topic. When Hiring/training people who may/may not want to learn it is assumed that they haven't much of a clue. So as far as buying them the most up to date gear I think that's like buying a Mercedes for your son's first car. Especially in Australia where a good saddle is $500 and spikes the same. American budgets can be a bit more flexible as tree equipment is fantastically priced by comparison. A carabiner here is $40 and a Stihl climbing saw $1500 so choosing to train someone isn't taken on lightly. If a saddle is comfortable and has the beginnings of advanced learning you are doing well. this is why I earlier suggested a good pricing overall for gear that people may want to add their own money too. I would never make an employee uncomfortable or ask them to do a job in or with something that would slow production but I certainly wouldn't be giving them gadgetry that may baffle and create unsafe situations until they had a greater grasp on technicalities. When they did we may talk of more specialized equipment but that would be a different topic wouldn' it

Tree Machine · 27th January 2008, 11:18 AM

The saddle needs to be under ownership of the user, I think, for him to make his basic statement of intent as a climber. If he's climbing in crap, he is limited by both the gear's limitations, and the limitations of his inexperience. It makes for a slow learning curve, and slow anything in business is slow. The recruit is not there to slow you down, so don't expect to provide slow tools and expect anything other than slow to come out of it.

The learning curve, and joy in learning, rests upon the gear being used.

In tree work, more than most occupations, you ARE your gear, every piece an extension of you, creating your abilities, imposing your limitations.

Choose with care.

ozinus · 27th January 2008, 11:21 AM

couldn't agree more

Tree Machine · 27th January 2008, 11:29 AM

If he uses a saw, do you provide him with chainsaw pants? if you want him to be as safe as you, then, yes.

It's been almost two years to the day since I last worked with someone who climbs. I want to provide that person (those persons) with standard issue gear that allows them to make the company money. I have never had a helper help the company make money and I know now in hindsight how I kept doing it wrong.

This is really helping make some critical decisions, Thank you, everyone. because like any other business owner, you want to do it right the next time up.

a_lopa · 27th January 2008, 04:51 PM

Cut proof pants are a given here TM,I dont think a "trainee saddle"should be strictly one persons till theyve shown enough to deserve the "reserved"tag..

Looking forward to the kit arriving

Tree Machine · 27th January 2008, 05:53 PM

Here's what I've come up with for a complete kit for 2 independent teams of men. Actually, there's one reel missing, I'm putting New England Ropes' neon green shotline on it and we'll see how that works out.

newguy18 · 27th January 2008, 06:01 PM

nice kit.someday i'll get a throw line.

26th January 2008, 09:34 AM	#51 (permalink)
Tree Machine Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 569	company climbing kits I'm finding a lot of value in all sides here, because I'm coming from a place where no one else is, and I can take valuable nuggets from you, and you, and you. We each come from our own experiences, so defending why we do what, and how and why, c'mon. We are thousands of men, each with unique, individual experience backgrounds. Some of us are way advanced, having worked with many dozens of different systems and saddles and an ocean of technical gear. Some of us think we know everything, and have just moved from a Blake's to a distal. It's amazing we can communicate at all. I'm also bringing on a team of two, starting next week, one is a pro-climber, the other his trusty groundguy, who we may or may not be setting up to climb. I am taking a little from all sides to plan my gear choices with these cats, who will only be here 90 days. See, there is no 'one advice covers all.'

27th January 2008, 06:49 AM	#53 (permalink)
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Live Oak Florida home of the crapiest trees you will ever see. Posts: 2,679	Re: company climbing kits okay gotcha. __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related

27th January 2008, 07:52 AM	#55 (permalink)
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Live Oak Florida home of the crapiest trees you will ever see. Posts: 2,679	Re: company climbing kits if i ever become a fair sized buisness where i train another climber i ain't buying him what i climb in now. http://www.esscodist.com/shopsite_sc...a/08-01025.jpg __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related

27th January 2008, 09:58 AM	#57 (permalink)
ozinus Banned Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Brisbane Posts: 59	Re: company climbing kits You still have to unwind those don't you ?? What a great engineering idea to have these with bearings so they can unspool off the throw.

27th January 2008, 10:06 AM	#59 (permalink)
ozinus Banned Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Brisbane Posts: 59	Re: company climbing kits How do they unspool is it tapered??

27th January 2008, 07:43 AM	#54 (permalink)
Tree Machine Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 569	My personal approach will be, I won't buy them anything I wouldn't use my self. Now to buy a low-budge saddle, just because they're noobies, I would not myself, climb in that, knowing what I know now about performance and comfort and confidence and how that all relates to income and overall smooth workings. If you're a cheap boss, you buy based on price. If you're the other kind of boss, you get what you need to have your company where you want it. Each company is individual and unique. Here in the US, there's no real rules or enforcement of rules if you work alone. But when you work amongst other people, it becomes a different story. Your worksite is your responsibility toward safe work practices and necessary PPE. If I'm gonna buy him a saddle, it would be sin to offer him more limitations and less versatility than what a modified pro saddle would do. If he's in a saddle better than mine, he's equipped to do what the big guys do. If he is in a crap saddle, how can I ever expect him to progress and do amazing things.

27th January 2008, 11:18 AM	#62 (permalink)
Tree Machine Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 569	The saddle The saddle needs to be under ownership of the user, I think, for him to make his basic statement of intent as a climber. If he's climbing in crap, he is limited by both the gear's limitations, and the limitations of his inexperience. It makes for a slow learning curve, and slow anything in business is slow. The recruit is not there to slow you down, so don't expect to provide slow tools and expect anything other than slow to come out of it. The learning curve, and joy in learning, rests upon the gear being used. In tree work, more than most occupations, you ARE your gear, every piece an extension of you, creating your abilities, imposing your limitations. Choose with care.

27th January 2008, 11:21 AM	#63 (permalink)
ozinus Banned Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Brisbane Posts: 59	Re: company climbing kits couldn't agree more

27th January 2008, 11:29 AM	#64 (permalink)
Tree Machine Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 569	If he uses a saw, do you provide him with chainsaw pants? if you want him to be as safe as you, then, yes. It's been almost two years to the day since I last worked with someone who climbs. I want to provide that person (those persons) with standard issue gear that allows them to make the company money. I have never had a helper help the company make money and I know now in hindsight how I kept doing it wrong. This is really helping make some critical decisions, Thank you, everyone. because like any other business owner, you want to do it right the next time up.

27th January 2008, 04:51 PM	#65 (permalink)
a_lopa Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Drouin Posts: 877	Re: company climbing kits Cut proof pants are a given here TM,I dont think a "trainee saddle"should be strictly one persons till theyve shown enough to deserve the "reserved"tag.. Looking forward to the kit arriving __________________ Free Tree Industry Link Directory Drouin tree lopping, land clearing and stump removals

27th January 2008, 06:01 PM	#67 (permalink)
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Live Oak Florida home of the crapiest trees you will ever see. Posts: 2,679	Re: company climbing kits nice kit.someday i'll get a throw line. __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related