Choosing the right harness

MrDiesel

GDay all,

Im in the middle of cert 2 at TAFE (nsw) and am starting to look whats involved in chosing a correctly fitting harness. We cover climbing shorlty but im keen to have an understanding before i start the section of the course. Im looking for help on choosing the right gear. I was hoping some of the learnered brothers/sisters out there could shed some light on it. In particular i was looking at the arbormaster pro harness from arbormaster.com.au. It fits nicely around my stomach but even when fully tightened around my legs there is still room to move ie i can fit my four fingers under the webing. Are there any rules of thimb for best fit? Are there any brands/models which are commonly used?

Garry Brockley

Squats, leg raises maybe
only joking try several harneses on i have used a butterfly for 10 years but swiched last year to an abies french harness i tried ten harneses on before buying, they all have thier pros and cons, i dont like the seat attachment personally but there are people on here who love them, so what im saying is that it's a personal choice. i find the seated harneses restrict my leg movement but thats the way i climb.

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OutofMytree

There are a few harness threads you could read just by using the search function. I climb in a Buckingham Traverse and have found it to be a great all round harness if you are going to spend long periods of time in trees.

There are probably several harnesses which would be suitable for you so rather than supply a list of brands this is the list of non-negotiable features I want to see on any harness.

1. It must be properly stitched and finished and made from materials tough enough to stand the rigours of our work.

2. It must have 2 floating d's for attaching krabs to lifelines.

3. It must have 2 sets of side d's for attaching lanyards.

4. The back pad and seat must be broad enough to support me for hours rather than minutes.

5. It must have multiple break away rings for gear storage. Putting everything on 1 is a pain in the saddle!

That's about all I can think of at the moment. Do not compromise on the lanyard d rings. You WILL need to use 2 lanyards at some stage and you must not put yourself in a position where you remove the wrong one becuase the are so close together!

OutofMytree

Galbee makes a good point about the seat. It can be restrictive. I like the comfortable spot to rest too much to give it up however.

newguy18

I climb one a navaho sit,it has leg loops and ti is the best harness i've ever used.Nice wide back,several gear loops,rear attachment point for a life line.Now i need to buy the top over harness to go on it so when i have all of my rigging gear hanging off of me it puts it on my shoulders instead of my waist.

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old schooler

rbtree

I've had B'ham Pinnacle, Versatile, and Traverse saddles. Been using a Traverse lately--don't much like it....or any of those style saddles anymore.
Prefer a saddle with a replaceable rope bridge, so that a ring, swivel, or anything can be installed on it. Been in a Butterfly 1 for 5 years....still like the b'hams for removals, just for hanging a saw, or for long spells sitting in the saddle as the seat batten is comfy..but bulky.. can hang up when moving thru the canopy.

Next saddle will be a Petzl Sequoia SRT, or a Tree Flex.....Tree Motion has already had wear issues reported, and the new Ergovation, while sounding trick, is also way pricey....Paolo will have to change out the floppy straight d-rings on the TreeFlex before I'll consider it.

newguy18

all of thoseare better than what i started with,the weaver 4 d.

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old schooler

Jeff Darby

rbtree,
You mention wear issues with the treemotion?, could you elaborate more the specific type of wear this saddle suffers from, and possibly point me to some facts?
Thanks
JayD

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TrevMcRev

Try to have a climb in as many different types you can. It is a personal choice.

Petzl Sequoia is a great harness, light, comfy, just seems to feel right for me.
I have used a buckingham traverse for years and like the seat for extended periods of mid air suspension though.
A new version Sequoia with a seat will be coming out soon, could be the perfect allrounder...

No word yet on its release though...

Attached Files

SEQUOIA SWING [1].pdf (146.9 KB, 233 views)

OutofMytree

Nice looking harness Trev. I like the seat adjustment and general shape. It is true that that traverse can get stuck especially when passing between branches. I don't like the lack of a second pair of d rings for a lanyard on the Sequoia its got to have two anchoring points for lanyards per side or its no go.

MrDiesel

Thanks all, There were some names in there i had never heard about, Had to spend a few hours googleing each product.

Out of interest how long do you guys keep a harness for? Obviously factors like the amount of use will have an impact. The reason i ask is watching a guy working and his harness had frayed edges around the leg straps. About 1mm on the edges. He said its normal wear and he did plan i replacing it for at least 12 months. I was thinking as soon as there is any wear marks the strength would be reduced??

Jeff Darby

As you get out n about you will see gooses just asking for an accident to happen, What you have to watch out for harnesses have a shelf life, the one you buy must be time stamped this years manufacture and as close to the date of purchase as you can get otherwise you will lose useable time with your harness.

I think replacement time is 10 years, a small fall of 600 mm replacement straight away..thats right it it's buggered.

With your mate climbing on a frayed harness, as long as you are watching this it's OK to a point, but dont pick up the bad habbits of some goose, it's your life supported by the harness and ropes, hardware take no chances.

Wishing you all the best with your studies, Good luck, be carefull.

JayD

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rbtree

You'd have to go to the forum run by Mark Chisholm, and do a search. There's been lots of discussions.

Garry Brockley

Harneses have a shelf life of ten years but a working life of five, we have a loller testing system that has to be carried out every six months on kit by qualified independent testers cost around £100 Aus$230 each time for my kit, everything is tagged and listed and if anything becomes u/s you stop useing it. my old climbing lines become lowering ropes( for small stuff), damaged pulleys are marked as u/s and removed from service as are carribena's, I have a butterfly harness that still looks like it can do the job but is out of date so i can't use it legally and a crespo seated harness that was used twenty to thirty times but is out of date that i can't legally use but i would rather be safe than sorry. if a harness is frayed buy a new one. well thats how we work

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MrDiesel

Thanks all for the very useful info

Rick Haggins

hey guys anybody ever heard of a stringer tree saddle iwas told it was a real good one but was an old school saddle just wondering if maby anybody has used one before

FlashD

Just wondering, have any of you seen or tried the new Buckinham Ergovation? It looks pretty nice, just wondering if looks are decieving or not.

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EDC

The Ergovation is the first ever (Patented) truly customizable, ergonomic fall protection system. The sit harness or saddle as we call it in the States just debuted at our annual Tree Care Industry expo in Wisconsin, but several other attachments should be available in 2009.

1) SRT attachment
2) Upper attachment that turns it into a fall arrest compatible harness
3) A batten seat
4) six different suspension assemblies

This was developed by my sister and I. We are both Certified Ergonomic Assessment Specialists in the US, and she is also a Dr. of Physical Therapy, as well as a Certified Professional Trainer. With her knowledge of human bio mechanics and my ability to injure myself, it was the perfect fit. As a production arborist for more than 12 , I have experienced many of the aches and pains that cripple us as tree workers, this is just a small tool, but a very important one, on a preventive maintenance regime that will extend your career for years to come.

If you have any questions fire away and I will do my best to respond, as my schedule is a bit hectic lately.

OutofMytree

Welcome aboard EDC. Nice to hear from the manufacturing and design end of the industry.

If you scroll up you will see my list of must haves in a saddle and it appears your design may incorporate all of those except for two distinct and seperate "d" rings for attaching two seperate lanyards. Is this something that can be attached or adjusted on this saddle? If so, is it possible for you to post a picture of the saddle set up this way.

Could you also post an RRP in Australian dollars or if not, an outlet and price in US dollars.

EDC

To answer your question Yes, I do not have a picture, but you can use a lanyard on your work position D-rings on your waist, and you can also use the climbing plates on the suspension and run a lanyard on those as well, the climbing plates will fit most beiners and snaps.

I will try to post a pic when I get a chance.

In Good Health
EC

FlashD

My boss told me the other day that he's getting some in to sell them. I think I'm going to have to see about demo-ing one for a while. They sound pretty nice. It's amazing how much of a difference a nice saddle can make, going between my bosses and my own is like night and day.

Tree Machine

I'm in the market right now for another saddle. I've been on a buckingham versatile, modified to include a number of custom features. Out of My Tree points several of them out, but fails to mention quick-clip buckles, which I would consider essential if you're in and out of your saddle during the day.

Then there is this; 5. It must have multiple break away rings for gear storage. Putting everything on 1 is a pain in the saddle!

I'm not familiar with ANY saddle, even the worst, where you have to put 'everything' in one place. Is a 'break-away ring' ..... I'm not even going to guess at what this is, just to say that I'm not familiar with that term. I can't see why you would want anything, other than a chainsaw lanyard, to 'break away'. Can ya help me out on this one?


RBtree has another essential, the replaceable rope bridge.


EDC, this is your moment to step forward and make your design shine. Educate us. Start with the 'SRT attachment'. I've been climbing SRT for 15 years, on every saddle I have ever owned. I've never considered any part of the saddle an SRT attachment. Lifeline attachment, yes, but what differentiates this attachment point from another lifeline attachment? All I can figure is you're referring to a chest attachment on suspenders, but again, I don't want to assume anything.


Sell us. The stage is yours, I have $500 slated for a new saddle as that seems to be the general price for a high end pro saddle these days. Offer me all the 'essentials' and my business is yours.

And, welcome to the site. We love to have first-hand, direct from source information. We appreciate and value your time.

newguy18

I use a navaho sit by petzl Jim,you can buy the top croll shoulder harness to go on it and that is made for srt.

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old schooler

Gunslinger

Ok what makes the Ergovation so different that it costs $475 US?

jim1nz

Ha who knows, im sure they put a lot of development into it is it but it looks like they the just copied the idea directly from the Tree Magineers Treemotion.

I tried it and this was my initial thoughts; Buckingham has added padding which is uncomfortable but in saying that it would probably 'run in' quite nice and be very comfortable. Compared to the Tree motion what im used to, the Ergovation is bulky, heavy and no were near the range of movement as the TM. I was disappointed in the quality too actually, stitching was rough and already beginning to fray. I did like the ideas with adding removable options here and there as detailed above. Also another thing i didnt like was the velcro everywhere, good idea but personally didnt like it even though im sure others will.

And didnt it used to be $575.00?

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jim1nz

Actually from what i have seen of your climbing style Jim, believe it or not i might have to agree with NG. The Petzl Navaho harnesses even though i havent tried them, do look good for you. Of course i would go try before buying it but its defiantly worth looking into mate. There are several Navaho harness check their website and see what you think. Dont know if they all have the removable full body option though.

Petzl Work and Rescue - Harnesses

Another i would look seriously at if i were you are the Tree Austria's. With leg loop and removable seat option. Good gear loops and cary tool options also.

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Tree Machine

I don't and have never held tight to 'a' climbing style, nor stuck with any one hitch or one friction piece or one type of ascender. My style ay given day is guaranteed to be moderately different weeks or months later.

One thing is for certain, versatility and comfort are primary. Weight is almost meaningless in the sense that the heaviest new, un-doctored saddle vs the lightest, the difference between them probably isn't even approaching the weight of a top-handle saw. When we're talking about differences in weight between saddles, to me it's like splitting hairs. I want to know the thing is durable, has LOTS of attachment point for gear and is quick-on-quick off and has the basic features I have found advantageous over others. I've been keeping my eyes wide open to the new saddles, reading threads across forums and watching others climb whenever I have that opportunity. I'm open minded to any of the upper-level saddles at this point.

The reason I am willing to drop $500 bones is that I want an upgrade, not a step backwards.


Though I appreciate noog and jimNZ and their thoughts on the Navajo there's some fundamentals that make this saddle a poor choice for someone who makes their full-time living climbing and caring for trees.


I would use this Navajo saddle maybe for caving or rock climbing where time on rope is minimal and sporadic, where carrying a chainsaw is not involved and where work positioning isn't at the heart of the issue. This saddle is so boiled-down I can't imagine why a pro climber would even consider it, but that is my opinion and I'm not asking anyone to agree with it. I won't even spend time on this beginner model by pointing out any other of its other low points. I respect Petzl enough to move on. They DO have better saddles for the Arborist, they're trying anyway.

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newguy18

Really,that harness is great,for me anyway and my climbing style.

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old schooler

reachtreeservice

Hey Tree Machine and the rest of you , what are your thoughts on the Yates RTR Professional Tower/Rope Access Harness?

I'm thinking about getting one for SRT.

LINKY: Industrial Harnesses

jim1nz

I dont know about that. When i say 'climbing style' i mean not what equipment you use to climb the tree, but HOW you manage the tree and carry out work, everyone has their own style. Sure yours i quite unique but each to their own.

I was not directly referring to the harness in your pic. But if you want to dismiss something outright thats your choice. Im just trying to give some ideas here.

Petzl Work and Rescue - Work positionning sit harnesses NAVAHO MINIBOSS

Thats the harness i was thinking about.

All the best in your choice.

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