Choosing the right harness

Gunslinger

These guys have it for $475. Not sure if more options would add to the cost:

Blue Ridge Arborist Supply Search Results

Tree Machine

Ahhhh, thank you Mr Jim NZ. I appreciate you clarifying that I'll give a short explanation on what that look like.

I didn't dismiss the basic Navajo outright, I did it with careful reason based on a number of criteria.



The miniboss (above) gets closer to, as you say, my 'style'. In a nutshell, I spend a lot of time hanging on rope. The buttboard is really helpful for that.
Even when fliplined in, very often the lifeline is tensioned, there's some tension on the flipline and the rest on the feet.
Generally, I work side one of the tree on the ascent, up over the top, and side two on the way down (though this varies a LOT, depends entirely upon the tree at the moment).
I rarely put on spikes, even on takedowns where sometimes I probably should.
I climb twin-line doubled most often (dual ascenders required), SRT next most often and traditional doubled rope now and then if someone on forum shows something they find to be advantageous or novel.
I use friction devices few others use, midline attachment to work the rope. 1:1 up, 1:1 down.

Other than that, climbing a tree is climbing a tree. I like to go way out to the tips to do terminal cuts with the handsaw, and that's where I find the sliding bridge to be a big help. This may be the primary place that the Navajo miniboss doesn't make the cut, but otherwise, in almost all other respects, I could live with that saddle. Still, its a notch below what I am currently using and I'm looking to go a notch or two up, in whatever way that looks.

Quite perceptive, JimNZ, to have paired that particular saddle to me.

I did seriously consider the Miniboss saddle years ago when they first came out with it. I did a little photoshopping to the image, sent it on to them and asked Petzl if they could do a few additional upgrade modifications. These were:
Replace the front D's with Petzl Pirhanas (coolness factor more than anything)
Replace the rear backpad-to-seat straps with 2" strap instead the string bikini straps.
Double the thickness of the front bridge and sew in some functional attachment points rather than just having it be a place to store slack adjustment strap.
Quick buckles for the leg straps and waist strap.



I think Petzl probably passed it around the office for a good laugh. I chose a saddle closer to what's been described above and then made the additional mods myself.

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Tree Machine

I have to be honest, even though the TreeMotion lacks some of the feature I personally like, after careful comparison to all other saddles in its class, I think the TreeMotion reigns supreme.

That's just my opinion though.

I would hate to buy such a beautifully constructed saddle and mod it out to my personal liking.

newguy18

How about this Jim?TreeFlex safety harness - unrestricted motion
i'd save up for one,but my navaho sit is great for how i climb,plus it has a few more years to go.

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old schooler

Tree Machine

And by the way, this thread is not about me, my climbing style or my personal preferences.

It's just that since I am right now at the point of purchase, about to drop a big chunk of change on a harness, I'm contributing some time to help others see a number of the different options on today's saddles. Hoping to share some insight into the 'whys' and the reasonings behind the considerations, and get some other pro-climbers to jump in and share their experience-based suggestions. That goes in-line with the title of the thread.




Treeflex is in the running. I spoke directly to Paolo early on, right when it was introduced, via a number of e-mails about this saddle. Again a very, very nice saddle, well-received by the Arborist community. Way comfortable. Again, my preference is something with a built-in bosun seat. Also, I very much wish to not have a spliced rope bridge. I'm a big fan of spliced ends, just not on a bridge. The reasons? When you do hard right or left leans, your slide ring and all forces go right on top of the splice itself. This might be OK in a practical sense, but in my head it says, 'not good'. The bridge is replaceable, but only with another spliced bridge. I am, at first glance, attracted to the new rope-through-hole-in-the-bridge-attachment style out currently.



I want to try a 5/8" diameter rope for the bridge for added heft and stiffness. I want to be able to convert back instantly if that doesn't work out. Again, I just want the versatility to try different things.

The butt-board, although some have stated it limits their movement in the tree, I simply can not agree with that. They'll make the statement, but no one elaborates to any detail to explain how they come to this. The saddle I use on vacation in Florida doesn't have a bosun seat, and only has a center attachment ring. I'f I'm removing some lengthy oak limb over top a screened lanai, I'm absolutely hating the saddle. If I'm just going straight up and down, being entirely vertical or light-angle limbwalks and not hanging on rope, I can tolerate it because I'm not needing to tap the benefits the other options offer. In general, I like having all the benefits because every tree is different and you never know what you're gonna get into and when.

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Garry Brockley

I find the butt boards restrict the amount i can open my legs sideways i find they push my knees together a bit like climbing with your knees tied, so it effects my climbing style i like to have the ability to stretch in all directions when im climbing hope this helps

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newguy18

Same here Galbee,hats why i love my navaho sit,although its not as comfy for hanging around where i'll spend a good part of the day hanging free and cutting,that 4 d i started with sucks but its a back or rescue harness.

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old schooler

Tree Machine

For Galbee, I'd like to know which saddle you found that would "push my knees together". I would like to avoid that one.

For Newguy, you're agreeing with that, but in all the time on this forum I have NEVER heard you make mention of using any saddle than some 4-D fall arrest harness and your new Navajo. It would be helpful to keep it factual. This is a great opportunity to describe features in detail based on their merit.

If the butt board restricted lateral movement of the legs, I wouldn't be using it. The truth of the matter is the board does not ride down around your legs unless you have it adjusted wrong. It rides about your hips where things don't open laterally to much degree. This is a pivot area, as we all know. A bosun is built stiff, so it doesn't compress the hips.

If you're standing upright with tension on the rope, the bosun seat hardly comes into play. These saddles also have leg straps, the difference is you have the option to shift tension off your thighs to directly under your azz. It's a comfort option, not to say that leg-strap saddles are uncomfortable because an uncomfortable saddle would simply not make it in the marketplace. However, we tree climbers get into all kinda wierd positions that can render the saddle, especially the leg-strap area, and just above, momentarily uncomfortable.

If I'm in a funky position where that temporary screaming discomfort occurs, I can reach down and pop one of the quick-clips. This is instantaneous relief, but support from beneath doesn't change. You can buckle it back up when you get past the crux.

I do wide splits from time to time, bouncing my way up an ever expanding V-crotch, advancing the rope, legs splaying wider and wider until I gotta bail into a more conventional vertical movement. Or Having to swing the foot up high to hook a heel, or swing over onto a big limb like you would a bareback horse. You don't pull off these sorts of moves if your saddle disalows it.


True, the bosun seat does extend just wider than your hips, so if you're moving through an area that is exactly the width of your hips, and you are stopped by the width of the support feature, I hope you can figure a reasonable solution to getting through there.

I'm not married to the idea of my next harness having a bosun seat, though if I'm having to give up those advantages, I would like a greater number of advantages in return. That's called trading up. Three of my last 5 saddles have been leg-strap versions, and I remember them being OK. But I keep reaching for more than OK. In fact, I'm willing to buy the best saddle on the planet, regardless of price. My eyes are wide open to whomever wants the dough.

newguy18

4-d fall arrest harness?Its a weaver 4 d,strapless,its not a fall aresst harness.Heres a pic,
http://i251.???????????.com/albums/g...7/IMG_0024.jpg

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old schooler

Tree Machine

I benefit of that old thang is quick-in, quick-out. Not a lot of futzing to put it on and off.

It feels good to upgrade, doesn't it?

newguy18

Yep,that thing sucks,espically since i have a bad back.

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old schooler

Tree Machine

You're in the wrong business, Buddy.

Garry Brockley

Hi i used a crespo seated saddle for six months and it really held me back, then i changed to a butterfly which is the best saddle ive had, i bought a seat attachment and found the same thing happened but without the butterfly 2 is a superb saddle with everything you need in a saddle, comfortable, secure feeling, lots of attachment points, side d's, and a central bridge.
i now use a french abies it has its faults but is a great harness.

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Tree Machine

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newguy18

Better off here then i was in mechanics,which is what wrecked my back.

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old schooler

Garry Brockley

when my container arives in 9 weeks i will take a picture of it for you jeez!!

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Tree Machine

Don't go out of your way. If it's an uncomfortable, or motion limiting saddle I totally believe ya. Just seeing a picture of it might help determine why it's less than ideal, like the picture Newguy gave us of his old, first saddle... pretty apparent the problems.

If you were climbing in junk, but complaining about the bosun seat, see that gets us a much closer to what we're looking for- good, unbiassed, accurate information. Pictures help.

Galbee, my problem is ignorance. I have been out of the saddle buying market for about 5 years and a lot of new rigs harnesses have come out in that time. In that time I've seen them passively, but here in this thread we're looking at them more actively. Everyone's input is valuable, not so much for me, but for the readership and anyone who wants to dissect the strengths and weakness of different saddle to come to a rational and informed decision.

Therefore, I respect your "jeez!!" and politely direct you a "whatever".

Garry Brockley

Ok i deserved a "whatever" for my "jeez" i was having a bad day, i have been climbing for nearly 12 years and have tried lots of harneses in that time. when i replaced my saddle last year i went to my supplier and tried on 15 different saddles, adjusted each one and swung from the rope that they have in the middle of the shop for that reason. i eventually decided that the Abies was going to give me what i needed as i wanted a change from the butterfly, it has a replaceable central bridge, good side d's, and loads of rear attachment points all with a lightweight harness, the leg attachments are covered by a padded velcro sleeve so they dont dig into your leg, if any problems occur with it i will post as they happen.

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Whistler

Great thread guys, very informative.

What would you recommend for a first (very cheap) harness. I want something that's usable, and ok to learn with.

Tree Machine

Buy the best saddle possible and take yourself serious.

TrevMcRev

The Buckinham Traverse is a good all round harness.

Buckingham Traverse at TreeGear

I have one of these available that i could do as a starter for you at a special TreeWorld price of $440.

Whistler

Thanks, Trev, that sounds very good of you, but I'm going to first try a local shop where they sell that gear. It's only an hour or so's drive from here, so im going to go check it out this afternoon.

If i can find a shop with reasonably knowledgable staff that i can visit and check out the gear first hand, I'm sure it would be worth paying a little more.

Does anyone have comments on buying climbing equipement in the Cairns area?

TrevMcRev

No worries. Good to have a hang in a few different types if you can to get a feel for comfort.

Good luck

Jeff Darby

Wow, Trev, what a good price! my son and I both use the aussie traverse, I use mine with the batten in place so I can take spell up the tree when I get a little spent, John climbs without the battern as it suits his style of climbing.

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Tree Machine

Industrial to the core. Not light, but comfortable, stable, able to attach mountains of gear, plenty of attachment sites, two biner tunnels for even more attachment sites, takes heavy saws well, Big D's, wide-strap sliding bridge. Wide entry, EZ-on EZ off with better leg buckles.

Idealize with modded Maillon deltas up front (2) to increase your versatility there. Add some quick-connect leg strap buckles for swiftness on and off, fat seat-belt width strap from the backpad-to-leg suspension for added durability and comfort, add an ideal flipline system for high-accuracy work positioning and the correct chainsaw lanyard---that would be a saddle to reckon with.

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Jeff Darby

The Australian A.traverse has two dee's each side of the harness.

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Member: Australian Tree Association

Join the Australian Tree Association...Have your voice heard !

Arboriculture, A life long study for some, a passing phase for others

© Jeffrey J Darby 2011

TrevMcRev

Hey Tm, we also get the Buckingham Traverse Deluxe-o-rino version that has the quick clip leg buckles and wider straps from waist to legs. Its als beefed up a bit with more/better padding and several extra gear rings/loops. Comes at an added weight penalty though. Costs you a few more fun tickets too.









Tree-vor.

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new tribe

hello...have any of you tried the New Tribe saddles....as for comforti believe its top of the line IMO. just my 2cents worth

Grais

That's almost laughable. Is ten pounds of weight splitting hairs, to me its ten pounds I WONT have to be hauling up and down all day. Which in turn saves my energy for working the tree.
My brothers saddle weighs all rigged and ready to go, about 15-16 pounds, my Petzl Navaho, all rigged and ready to go, weighs about 6, trust me I notice it the whole time.
Even more so packing the gear up the ROW.
I think guys who say, 'a light saddle is a POS, these things need to be tough', haven ever tried a quality made, light saddle.
My Petzl with a MS 200 connected, weighs less than my brothers saddle with no saw, trust me that's a noticeable difference, not too mention the Navaho is the most comfy saddle I have ever used.
Try light, once you do you'll laugh at the memory of hauling that 15 pound belt up and down the tree all day, I do.
Good luck finding a good saddle, cant go wrong with Petzl as far as I am concerned.
Stay safe gang,
-Grais

Grais

In all honesty, a simple 4D weaver or buck nylon saddle is what I climbed in for the first 8-10 years of my climbing career. Are they the most comfy saddle you'll ever use, no, but they aren't ALL BAD.
They are light, I like light, and they introduce you to a climbing saddle in a simple straight forward manner. Plus they are hella cheap, couple of possibilities....
the Buckingham economy line, the 'wide backs' are plenty comfy.......
WesSpur Tree Climbing Equipment featuring Buckingham Economy Saddles
and then the Weaver line, for 200.00 you can pick up the 'Cougar', haven't read any bad reviews of it yet, most seem pretty positive regarding the saddle....

Weaver Leather Tree Saddles at WesSpur Tree Equipment

if the links do not work, my apologies but.... ??? Just go to Wesspur I guess, I just linked to the Buckingham 'Econo line and the Weaver line there as well.
Again good luck finding that first saddle.
Just a wee piece of advice, if you are strapped for cash, and having to pinch pennies, if you have to buy spurs as well, spend the money to get good caps, be they Caddies or what have you, a decent comfy cap will keep you in the tree longer than anything else I think, once the shins start a burning and crying, ouchies.....
Scrimp on the saddle, NOT ON CAPS(if you are bying spurs that is???), as long as it is quality youll be fine, and after a few months work or a few good jobs you can spend a couple more dineros, and get a saddle that is more to your liking.
This will also give you time to assess how you climb and what you prefer to have in a saddle. We are all different, hence the mass variety in saddles, so it might take a few months or much longer to really get a grip on what your 'saddle' needs are.
Have fun with it.
-Grais.