Ropes, knots & rigging

[sawsong]

personally Aerial I would stop for a moment, just take a step back, and stop wasting money. Do what I did, ASK people exactly what it is you need, and what they would suggest for you to buy. then and only then, spend the money.

Combining harnesses is certainly not something I would suggest. it is bound to be uncomfortable and they will have accelerated wear I should think. I only lasted a fortnight climbing in a rock harness before i upgraded to the real deal.

as has been said, Knots first, hardware second. tied correctly, the knots are foolproof, the hardware always has its quirks.

and as for how to bodythrust or footlock. They are both incredibly easy disciplines to learn, however hard to master.

just for point of comparison, to help show you that you're probably not affording yourself the kind of comfort and security that you should be, here is my 'beginner' climbing setup. compare how it looks similar to yours, but more importantly how it looks different

Jim



i realise theres a screwgate on there, but it is only used for hanging things onto my saddle etc. although theres some argument now that you should only affix a chainsaw with a triple locker too. nobody seen the petzl caritool then?

[Aerial]

Originally Posted by newguy18

... you need to master drt before you need to learn srt.Also single line rock rappeling is worlds awa from tree climbing.Bodythrusting is the one you should start with.I also recomended you start off with a fool proof knot like tautline... forget using the ascenders... in time you'll use them...

My split tail and hip prusik came in today and I can start working with them. I rigged up a drt in the front yard to try them out. Here is a photo of them both tied on my rope:



Note the small pulley mounted on the hip prusik. I added the pulley to it instead of the split tail. It pulls both the Blake's knot on the split tail and the wrap of the hip prusik up the rope effortlessly.



I use one of my Jumar ascenders to pull up with one arm while bringing up the slack end with the other. Not too bad, on long ascents I can switch hands or rest whenever I need to.



I think the hip prusik with pulley slack tender would be plenty all by itself, but I wanted to have both systems available to me. Especially when I am able to trunk walk or bodythrust.

Aerial

[newguy18]

Good,you need to get the hang off that and then start limbwalking.

[Ekka]

Originally Posted by Aerial

I use one of my Jumar ascenders to pull up with one arm while bringing up the slack end with the other. Not too bad, on long ascents I can switch hands or rest whenever I need to.

Aerial, please load your pics to this server rather than embed them the way you have, me and some others do go through and change them over, boring task.

Secondly, that's such an odd set up I cant really make it out. But I will say you keep doing that I feel you'll get a nasty case of tennis elbow. Can you put a foot loop on that jumar?!

[Ekka]

I'm still looking at this part wondering.

[Aerial]

That's a great rig sawsong. I wish I had the advice of experts when getting into this. Of course then I probably wouldn't have done it.

My climbing lanyard for example. The first one I got with my "starter kit" is just a nylon strap, not very supple and no stiffness whatever. Very hard to advance. Then I got a pole strap, great for poles I expect, but not ideal for trees.

Finally after finding this forum, I discovered what really works. My flipline has not come yet, so I have not been able to try it out.

The same goes for a fall arrest system. My experience as a parachute rigger didn't give me much confidence working with ropes. Besides that was decades ago and I was currently only confident in my ability to tie a bowline. Now that a great knot and all, but it was all I had.

And that's how the retracting cable lifeline came into the picture. It's pretty slick, well tested, and meets current standards. I feel confident that, had I fallen, it would have saved me. Of course it could have let me in a position where I would have needed to be rescued just to get back on earth.

Since then, with the help of this forum (and the Climber's Companion), I have added the Blake hitch and Yosemite tieoff (on my Bowline) to my knots I can tie without looking at a picture.

Now I must say, having learned the knots and put them into use in a limited testing mode, I'm a total convert to their use. The Blakes Hitch is an elegant piece of rope work. The Hip Prusik seems to work well too. Two wraps and through the loop? I hope I got that right, it seemed intuitive, and it worked. (backed up by the Blakes Hitch).

I'll repost the photo from the 'BINERS! thread to show my first use of these knots. Please note that this rig was just set 15 feet in a small easily climbed tree. I never got higher than 10' so it was just a gear test, not a climb of any magnitude. Poll question: Should I have worn my helmet anyway?

Oops! I'm on the wrong computer for posting photos, I'm using the wife's Macbook while having my morning coffee on the couch. I could do it from this Mac, but I'd have to type in URLs and passwords and such. It's easier to just walk into the next room and wake up my Powerbook. Like all my Macs, I almost never turn it off, I just let them go to sleep when not being used.

But this is Aerial's Climbing thread (Thanks Therrin and Ekka) not Aerial's computer symposium, that thread would be here:

Mac vs. PC?

Aerial

[Aerial]

Thanks Ekka, now I don't have to change computers!

The parts you have circled in blue are not tied together, it just appears that the split tail goes though the hip prusik somehow. This is not the case. They remain wholly separate.

What do you think about my addition of the pulley to the hip prusik?

Aerial

[Aerial]

Originally Posted by Ekka

Aerial, please load your pics to this server rather than embed them the way you have, me and some others do go through and change them over, boring task.

Secondly, that's such an odd set up I cant really make it out. But I will say you keep doing that I feel you'll get a nasty case of tennis elbow. Can you put a foot loop on that jumar?!

Ekka, could you link me to a thread which explains how you access your server to upload photos?

Basically as I explained in the post above, the set up is a Split Tail and a Hip Prusik on the same line. I'm not saying that this is the setup I'm going to use to climb with, it's just that once I had them tied on it seemed prudent to test them together. It seemed to work. The pulley on the Hip Prusik advanced both the wrap and the Blakes Hitch without problems.

Aerial

[Ekka]

How to post| add a picture or file| embed picture

[Aerial]

As to the Jumars, I have fabricated some loops, but I used one just as a secure hand hold. Getting a loop on it would probably make it much easier on the arms. I'm still very much in the testing and learning mode here.

I've got another tree picked out for climbing practice, one that I can use my spikes on, and one that will give a good tie in point for my rope work as well. This is not the tree I depicted in the other thread ("Is This Tree Safe To Climb"), as that one has too much dead wood overhanging too be in, under or around.

I'll upload a photo when I figure out how.

Aerial

[newguy18]

if you need a mechanical advantage to help you ascend why not just buy a pantin?If yuor blake's is tied right[which it is]then there should be no need for the hip prusik.personaaly i think the bridge is to long as well but everyone's differnt.

[Aerial]

Originally Posted by newguy18

if you need a mechanical advantage... why not just buy a pantin?I... i think the bridge is to long as well...

I'm thinkin' winch of some sort, but I'll try to find out what a "pantin" is.

The bridge thing, my first try with a nice tidy blake was out of reach. I started out on a bucket for self rescue. I fixed that and brought it just within reach. Is shorter better?

Aerial

[newguy18]

This is a pantin,
http://www.gonzoguanogear.com/images/pantin.jpg
With your bridge your suppose to keep it within arms reach so when you pull down you can easily advance the knot.Also so youcan get an easy grasp on it to descend.Imo the tautline works better than a blakes with a micro pulley but then again i prefer tautline to blakes.Use what your comfortable with and what you can tie quickly and get it right every time.

[Aerial]

OK I Googled "Pantin" up and came up with the foot mounted ascender thingy.

How do you maintain tension on the slack end of that thing to advance it?

Aerial

[sawsong]

same way as footlocking. once a few feet up, it self tends by the weight of the rope alone

[quercus]

Originally Posted by Ekka

I'm still looking at this part wondering.

I was wondering about that too... But it looks like there's two bights of rope with eye splices whom are spliced on the red snap hook . Never seen that before.