To TOP or Not to TOP

Therrin

I'm seriously doubting that all involved to this point have voted honestly, more likely to save face than anything else.


I suppose I conduct the "work" of an arborist, but I haven't been familiar with the supposed fact that if you work with "live trees" you can call yourself an arborist without being cert'd. That one just doesn't strike me so well, so I don't use it as a trump card, as I'm certain other's do just to elevate their position in the overall scheme of things. I'd rather be honest than lie through my teeth just to obtain contracts.

TREE-SURFER

I am pretty certain, that all have answered honestly. Therrin, don't forget that home-owners can buy a chainsaw and mutilate their trees also and not just the qualified. I have a brochure that I hand out quite regular. On it is a picture as to why 'I' don't top and an explanation to back that up. I'm sure, like others here, that it would be pretty demeaning to their companies, that are mostly advertised on the WWW and have a link to this forum, that anybody doing their home-work before hiring a 'Tree Feller/Fella' would be able to see the comments made here too.
The whole project that I am undertaking is to have TOPPING banned. And that means that no one is allowed to do it....

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What experts say about TOPPING

Therrin

You might be interested in having Mvaden's "pruning" page on wikipedia changed then so that the entire WORLD doesn't see that
"topping is an acceptable form of pruning when done correctly."


I'm not bashing him for the hell of it, rather for the topic, and the fact that he is specifically endorsing it, as well as attaining advertisement from it.

TREE-SURFER

Mario is a certified Arbo and has the credentials to prove that. ISA and search "Vaden".
This poll was started and i quote myself This poll is not a target point to discredit others, if that was the case, I would name and shame all that I know here on our Island.

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What experts say about TOPPING

windthrown

Therrin

Well amongst all of this seriousness, I'm glad someone's getting tanked.... good on ya Windthrown =)

dguntertrees

Is this debate still going on?
Well I guess it must be necessary then.
You've probably all read Ekkas site by now, but its worth noting (again) that Pollarding is an old form of tree management and that it has created many of the most striking trees in the UK. I have seen 300-400 year old willow trees on the Somerset levels (up to 3 metres DBH) that would not be there had they not been pollarded. they are now fantastic, twisted, gnarley things that are a bitch to climb, as they snap (as all willows do, pollarded or not), and are often full of ivy. They are also often adjacent to roads (as they historically marked farm boundaries etc) and, therefore often below powerlines. SO. My question is this: do you take these trees out rather than re-pollard? If you do, you are a fool. These historic trees have been managed by humans for hundreds of years, provide habitat for native wildlife (foxes, badgers, bats, birds, invertebrates) that would not exist if they had not been pollarded, they are also often historically, geographically and culturally significant.
Each tree must be managed on its own merits, in some cases this means doing nothing..cest la vie.

This does NOT mean that I am pro-lopping, I'm not, it means that we are lucky enough to work in a profession which can turn all you've learnt on its head and make you THINK about what you are doing, sometimes every day.

For the record, I don't think that MD was advocating lopping at all. Thats not how I read it anyway.

DG

Therrin

I'm not trying to "continue bashing him", but I think that several of you aren't looking at what I was talking about. It isn't as much his post on this thread, as much as when you look up "PRUNING" on wikipedia.

They even labeled the BBR as the branch collar...

would YOU want your name at the bottom of that page?

Pruning - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Eric Frei

Here you go, a new thread.

HELP!! - Wikipedia Definition of Pruning

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Therrin

Woohoo, check that out, a new thread!!!

Eric Frei

The hackers went through this yard too, note the Liquid Amber died. So now the client has to pay twice and has a dead tree, real smart, that's what happens when you hire idiots.

Mature trees cant always take it, these are known to be hardy however it was a drought when this was done.

The tree was of good form prior. I drove past very regularly and never thought much of it, wish I had taken a before pic.

The other trees are stuffed too now, one is a melaleuca the other a buckinghamia ... again too bad, could have been pruned nicely to accomodate everything but now a topped abomination.

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Eric Frei

These are extremely hardy lillypilly's, however they were small trees as some varieties can grow large.

The hackers went through and topped the lot, "she'll be right ... bush up real nice."

Take a closer look, now some tops have died.

Also where is the logic, you cut the top off to make it smaller but it will "bush up real nice", grow back far more abundant, faster, taller and uglier ... so why do it?


This was a Bribie Island pine I'd say, now it's a dead eye sore. Some species like Callitris wont like to shoot from cuts beyond the green tip growth. Not that the moron tree companies care they made money still.

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arbdog

I dont want people to think im a hack, I spend hours carefully pruning trees correctly! But we do "top" conifers ( layland cypress ( x Cupressocyparis leylandii)) which people have planted and they have grown too tall or conifer hedges when they have frown too tall and that is the only exeption! Anyway there only scanky conifers and this is the only way to maintain them in a urban area! Wrong trees in the wrong place.

a_lopa

Some real eye sore's there ekka!

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quercus

True arbdog, we do it here too with that species.... I don't do it to solitary trees though. Only wen they are meant to form a hedge.

conifers can grow very tall and they are mean trees , but they are still trees...In fact, the largest trees in the world are conifers, come to think of it.

I've often encountered sequoiadendron giganteum planted only 3 feet away from the house. Then I just know I'll get a call someday to take it down.

Done it

Yep, they can get tall unless someone does this! It was a lot taller than it's little brother in pic3.

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newguy18

All these pics of topped trees makes me,

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Eric Frei

Done it

as it's dead now could have been lightening strike and had the head taken off ... see a bit of it around here. The head dies and even falls off and slowly the whole tree can die but sometimes not.

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RandyMac

I can think of one example of topping that is legatimate, spar trees.

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treevet

Around here silver maples , chinese elms, bradford pears, and some other trees that are near high level targets are topped regularly. They will get decay and sometimes get diseased. The alternative is letting them fall apart and damage property or kill someone. When topped the decay can become inconsequential
for a long long time because the weight has been reduced as has the sail. Some people when advised will choose to top. You can call it crown reduction and if cut back to laterals it is sure better than above pictures but it is still topping and just a matter of semantics.

I have no problem doing this at times if I know there will be a follow up in 5 years or so.

treevet

Arbdog, wondered if you could tell me why this a skanky conifer. They are starting to turn up in retail nurseries around here and look kind of nice in a young healthy state. Leyland Cypress

dguntertrees

Exactly Treevet,

No, I agree with you...

I know, weird eh?

treevet

You picking a fight again, Dave

dguntertrees

Leyland Cypress are skanky 'cause they are generally planted in the wrong place (i.e. along a boundary fence between houses) and shade out the whole street because they have such dense canopies...they are even "named and shamed" in the Anti-Social Behaviour Act in the UK. There was talk before I left for Oz of giving LG's the authority to enter peoples property and cut their trees to a height of 2-3 metres if they refused to manage them in the way they were intended to be managed i.e. as a hedge. There have been a huge number of court cases re; Leylands, even one shooting when some bloke came back from his hol's to find his precious "hedge" lying in his pool...apparently his neighbour got medieval with a chainsaw!
Do a Google search and you will see what I mean. If Arbdog works in the UK then a lot of his time will be spent creating manageable hedges out of rampant Leylandii. Its painstaking, frustrating work, but once they are manageable, they can look fantastic. Leylands really lend themselves to hedging, and the way they grow ensures that you can even use a plumb line to get that razor edge look. Does'nt last long tho', they grow up to 2 metres a year...often faster if they are hedged. Great for revisit work!

treevet

How do they handle cold, wet/dry feet? I am getting ready to buy a bunch and a friend of mine caretaker for a huge convent planted 5 about 3 years ago and they look great. Any insect/disease issues. Love the color.

I am going to bed, It is 1 am. Will check in morning. Thanks for any info.

Done it

You may be right, I'll check. I hadn't been down that road for a while & it was a shock. There are 3 hills here & each had one, this one in pic is the last.

I was asked to top the other one years ago [owner was police inspector & local club member] and I wouldn't do it unless he got council approval, 2 days later it was done and later totally removed.

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Eric Frei

That's a bloody Bunya mate, you know it would be a PITA if you couldn't fell the head out whole, and an even bigger PITA to climb with all those prickly bits. Imagine climbing one spikeless and not being able to cut off the branches on the way up?

Frankly, Bunya's suck! How's the nuts they get, flamin 10kg skull crushers, make coconuts look tame.


Leylandii Cypress, if you want a 2m to 3m high hedge dont plant a species that wants to grow to 35m like overnight.

Check it out, doesn't do well in USA in some parts Leyland Cypress - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Personally, sounds like a PITA to me, get Thuja's!

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treevet

They re all the rage in nurseries starting last year. Previous shrub arborvitae have a life expectancy of about 3 years so this is what is being touted as replacement. My one nursery just sold 150 and is getting 150 more soon.

Guess growing so quick they can turnover quick in grower to nursery and by time public figures out this a prob quick grower everyone will have cash in pocket. We are planting 5 today, but they can grow to the moon where they are going.
Supposed to be good around roads for salt tolerance and ever used as shields for salt spray on other plants?

dguntertrees

Yep they were all the rage in UK too...thats the problem.
I think the Thuja is a much nicer tree all round, don't know about salt tolerance tho'.

I know that Leyland foliage dies off if exposed continuously to road de-icing salt though. And it won't grow back.

Possible P+D includes: Armillaria (honey fungus), Heterobasidium annosum (root and butt rot); Coryneum canker (to bark and cambium); Shoot blight, Aphid damage, mined shoots, drought, honeydew and sooty moulds.

I have to say though that they are pretty tough old things. I know a few people back in England who used to do leyland hedging as a specialty and they would create a wooden walkway along the top of the hedge by attaching scaffold planks to the top of the cut stems, they could then walk along the top of the trees trimming the regrowth at about a metre from the top of the stem with their hedge trimmers. Looked fantastic and there was never any discernible damage or associated problems that I saw.

DeeGee

treevet

Neat story about the scaffolding. I ve heard of stuff like that before with hedges (prob Leylands). We aimed a few LC's up at the sky today and will put another 12 in a row tomorrow. Those I will be able to set my picker right next to so I can beat them back.

Thanks for the info. I think around here they also will get the bagworms. A particular ly nasty little creature that if you don t get it at the right time (and that is elusive) then the little fugger is in the bag and mature and you have to pick them all off.

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