Ethical adverts by Energex contractors?

Treemonkee

Do contractors to Energex have to have none self advertising trucks,if so why do tree scape have so much free advertising whilst doin Energex contracts.This to me seems to be in breach of tender process?and in the long run could affect the private company's.Whilst working for Energex are they qouting on private jobs and doining them on Energex time?iv heard storys of this company doin this from customers.Is this a conflict of interest.im sure Energex wouldn't like this.

Eric Frei

Contact Energex to get the facts on signage for contractors doing tree trimming.

Then post up the facts.

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nick shark

I have been on site, with and quoted against treescape whilst they were there advising a customer, that they were there to do their trees for energex... is it ok? i don't know...

Apocalypsse

I doubt this would breach any contract. All wire clearance companies in Vic have some sort of signage. This ain't making classified weapons for the military, its cutting trees around powerlines. I can't think of anyone big down here that doesn't have at the very least, signage on the doors of the trucks. As for quoting other jobs, isn't that the whole purpose of the business? To make money. Hardly a conflict of interest, otherwise companies like Citywide, Active & Vemco would be having issues all round the board.

Treemonkee

Good point Apocalypsse.but I think your missing the point.whilst I work for other company's as a contract climber,and the company's owner introduce's me as a sub contractor.The owner atleast 25% of the time see's myself bring the tree down,in there eyes im the one that makes it happen.Now they say "why didn't I just use you and save money and can have your card for further work."I say,"u have phoned this company I work for and with out them I wouldn't have the days income.so no I'm sorry I will not pass on my card"There is a loyalty factor I have to up hold for the contractor so he trusts me and uses me again.shouldn't this be the case for signed adverted contractors.Energex does not do private work.but for them to think that a signed company working under them is not geting some type of sideline work while on Energex time,seems naive?

Treemonkee

As Eric said I will phone Energex and post what they state are the conditions of advertising,and side line work.It just seems like another big company that will dominate the industry in the wrong practice to provide themselves a bigger slice?ie woolworths,Coles!Then we all will be sorry that it wasn't pointed out from the beginning.just like the island crews.I've worked way to hard and developed great skills just to be eventually put on the back burner.touch wood this doesn't happen.

Apocalypsse

Are you talking about the crews Energex has internally or contractors they are using? A lot of people will go after a cashie if its offered up. The contractors would be able to quote for private work all they want, if they do the job on Energex time is another matter and without the specifics of the contract (ie: how they are paid for the work they do, etc) then you can't say for sure whats going on. Try and find a single tree company out there that only exists to service a single contract, no residential work, no cashies, no nothing else, just solely exists to do said contract. When you are out in the streets everyday people are bound to come and ask for work, then it comes down to the person whether they will turn the resident away or go quote the job. I would say the work is done in personal time or outside of the contract's specified work hours.

Treemonkee

Would they be able to Qoute on Energex time too?it's obvious they shouldn't do the job on there time that was my original point.but to Qoute is still working.as professionals I think they are there to do what they have been employed for anything else what so ever that is not part of there contract should be avoided to uphold an ethical standard.simple.as far as picking up work from the street whilst on a job or cashes as a PRIVATE CONTRACTOR why wouldn't ya.this is not the topic!do you contract for Energex Apocalypsse?

Treemonkee

Energex contractors

Apocalypsse

No I don't, I work for a large contractor in Vic. I googled Treescape, looks like they do various different things apart from powerline clearance. I assume they would be required to (and other contractors) to complete x amount of streets in x amount of time, the quicker the better for better chance at reacquiring the contract once its up and possibly any other jobs Energex has which isn't part of the contract. They aren't Energex employees, they are employees of the contractor who may allow them to quote for jobs for their other crews to do later. I don't see what ethical standards are being breached here, its not like they are forcing themselves onto people to get tree work done.

Treemonkee

Understand your point and thanks.I'm not talking about there private crews good on them go hard.but without confusing the situation and keeping it simple...If the contractor has been employed by the principal then you as the contractor MUST abide by the principals rules and I'm sure they wouldn't agree
to the contractor even qouting a job whilst they are suppose to be clearing lines?that there sounds like breach.Just incase you still don't understand here's a hypothetical situation.I as the principal i give you a job and state that no work including self advert or qouting is to be done whilst doin my job.if you do the contract will be lost.is this then breach?

Eric Frei

Guys please .... lets get the facts.

If it turns out that there's no rules and it's open slather .... then the only issue that remains is productivity for Energex .... which is Energex's problem to manage.

Some contracts charge per tree, others charge hourly rate, hours billed vs hours performed is an issue Energex has to monitor. And I dare say that there would be a productivity number as we all know that hourly rate penalises the most productive.

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Apocalypsse

I do understand where you are coming from but I really can't see it being part of the contract that they aren't allowing to quote other work, seems like an unnecessary nightmare to work into a contract. We clear lines and do street trees but can be pulled off to another contract at any time to help them. Energex would be looking at them to clear to the minimum clearance + an extra metre or 2 depending on how long the cycles are, observing all laws and regulations and getting the streets/zones done properly in x amount of time. To your hypothetical, yea it would be a breach, but I still can see a clause like that being in the contract at like a 1% chance. Question for your hypothetical, if a resident came out and asked for a quote would you allow the contractor to give them a card to call a different team leader or even have the crew call out someone else to come quote?

2 more days of public holidays, gotta do something here right?!

Treemonkee

Fair call Eric.might be the only solution to Apoclaypsse and my debate.good chatting with ya dude.Must answer your question tho and that would be no.this is not to back my self but only to keep high level of loyalty and trust to develop a excellent business name.sounds funny but I have faith that patience and honesty will prevail.peace out Apoclaypsse I just think to deep about the affects we all have on each other.I'll post on wednesday when have talked to Energex.happy Easter

Eric Frei

I think a lot less of anyone working on my jobs who promotes themselves/their business and hands out their cards .... to the point I may not use them again.

If I work for some-one else I promote their business. If the client wants to deal direct with me then I ask that business owners permission. These are goodwill basics and if you want to bend or breach these you'll suffer the consequences.

These days I'm not even bothered with shirt printing etc, no flags flying fits in all nations. Some contract climbers love to rock up with their shirts blazing out who they are .... it's noted do not worry, there may be another who doesn't fly the flag coming soon.

The job is secured via the principal contractor's marketing, goodwill or efforts. You the subbie is sharing in that, remember the pecking order.

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Treemonkee

Exactly!!

Jeff Darby

The thoughts mentioned above by Eric are echoed by any reputable contractor. Who ever won the contract has the rights to all opportunities that arise from the job being undertaken.

After all, all the subbies are there on his reputation as the customer did select them but excepted them on face value, handing out their business cards or trying to build rapport with the customer apart from the usual greetings is not on.

I'm a big on "no steak no gravy" well in this case the the steak is not yours to do with what you want and any gravy certainly goes to the company that secured the job, when I subbie I always refer the customer to the owner of the contract,when approached, and frown upon anyone who tries to feather their own nest at the principle contractors expense.

There are plenty of unwritten laws for contractors/subbies respect the owners rights of the job is one, another is treat the customers home and his family with respect. This way you might not be overlooked next time the planning starts for a contract...

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Eric Frei

An industry that seems to have nutted this out well is the plant and equipment hire mobs.

You know, bobcats, excavators etc.

After 13 years in this business I have used many of these services. The best ones are run very interestingly.

You'll see often the trucks/machines etc even sign written for the principal contractor.

The principal contractor finds the work via their own marketing etc, even goes to site to see who/what machines are required etc.

They take a fee and the subbies rock up on hourly rate to do the work. The principal contractor gets a callout etc.

The subbies like it as there is no marketing, no quotes, no running around etc .... the principal contractor vets out the deadwood and incompetent with a solid core of reliable contractors .... no Freddy with a hangover failing to show up.

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Apocalypsse

Than we shall continue this debate when you get the solid facts from Energex. Happy Easter/stupidly long weekend.

Eric, I can understand that when its tree company subbing for another. But what about when its tree company contracting for a service provider or other business that doesn't itself offer tree works? As far as I know all the sub-contractors we have used all have signage on their trucks.

Eric Frei

If a tree contractor is subbing for another service provider that doesn't do tree work, then I suppose it's up to the service provider to make the rules ... personally I wouldn't mind.

Like when I call in an electrician to drop lines.

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Drouin Tree Service

The powerline contracts in Vic are a different ball game $$$ to up north,privatized long ago and cut throat like you wouldnt believe.

If the contractor to Energex is being paid hourly rate he's clearly in the wrong.If they are being paid by the span cleared/trees trimmed no problem.I bet the fine print on the contract wouyld be "late model white colored vehicles not heavily signwriten"

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Drouin Tree Services | Excavator Hire - Drouin and SE Gippsland | Landclearing Melbourne

Drouin Tree Service

Also Eric when companys direct hiring go broke the subbys arnt left out to dry.

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Drouin Tree Services | Excavator Hire - Drouin and SE Gippsland | Landclearing Melbourne

Apocalypsse

Big difference between us normal states and the big Q?

saltas

Not to distract the ops question but to give some insight into branding issues raised so far.

I was an electrical supervisor in Townsville.

ERGON is the power company up here but still the same quasi government equivalent of ENERGEX in south east Queensland.

Contracts "late model white colored vehicles not heavily signwriten" is in the contracts but the practise is that this is preferred but dose not disqualify you.

Often the machines used for the contract will be from a hire company.

The solution is a white magnetic sign 500mm x500mm "ERGON CONTRACTOR"
on the door. There is no enforcement that it covers up any other sign writing.

This works It gives the public confidence that they are who they say they are. If they are up to no good eg OHS shortcutting or poor driving then the public can rat them out to ERGON.

eastern tree service gets most of the tree work.

but they contract out almost all construction and maintenance work theses days so I see more "ABC CONTRACTING" vehicles with a "ERGON CONTRACTOR" magnet that I see ERGON vehicles, But a category 5 storm will do that. I have seen tree companies from all states but WA and TAS up here in the last couple of months. For about three weeks there were no saws, chain, bar oil or generators in any of the shops

JohN Dee

I used to lead a crew for the TransGrid power authority for the transmission lines in NSW.

The company sub-contracted to the primary contractor and the company was paid hourly by TransGrid themselves.

The company did not do any domestic work, but if we ever had to leave site for what ever reasons or left early the time was logged and we were logged off the system & fudging the hours was not possible due to the TransGrid line managers loving making surprise visits usually emerging from within the bush itself oh and occasional audits from the uppers too!

Our trucks were fairly cleanly presented, circle logo and minimal colours - white trucks, green chippers. We had magnetic signs that we stuck on the doors stating we were contractors for TransGrid and contact numbers.

The company was also the principal contractor for some regions to Integral Energy and I know they had tough regulations to abide by and got paid per span and crews span rates were monitored heavily - again all the trucks had magnetic signs stuck on them stating Integral Energy and still had all the company's sign writing displayed.

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Apocalypsse

Treemonkee, did you end up calling Energex to find out some info on this?

Treemonkee

Yes I did phone them but could not get the right contact.I Know a guy that works for Energex so have asked him for the inside scoop.I'll post as soon as I here.

Apocalypsse

Bamp, did you ever get a response to this question?

Branching Out TreeCare

I am a self employed arborist in Northland , Whangarei, NZ. From time to time i require Northpower to give me quotes on close approach line clearance work as there is only two certified contractors to do this work up here.
Often when I already have been awarded the work from the client , I then ask for Northpower or Treescape to quote the line clearance work.
Northpower has a policy of always convincing the client ( who has awarded me the work ) to not use me because im not certified for this work. Northpower then do the work , shutting me out of the job. Northpower are UNETHICAL !!!!!!They [COLOR="black"]will always talk the client around and often bully them into having the client believe that no one else is allowed to work on their network. Northpower do own the network but are one of two certified contractors. TreeScape behave ethically and never bully the client into renegging on my contract. I have taken this up with the CEO of northpower but with no joy or acknowledgement of their wrong doing.
Do you know of any other lines company that behave this disgracefully?
This is clearly breaching the Commerce Act and the Fair Trading Act but to try and fight against these big bullies is just to much effort.
It would be nice to be able to show them that they have much room for improvement but this suggestion just falls on deaf ears.
I bet this would never happen in your Country...or would it?