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Tree Machine · 28th October 2007, 07:57 AM

Sounds like we're taking the climb out of climbing.

To keep this thread from going too many directions, we been working a path where ascent is assumed via ascenders, 1:1 preferable, 2:1 if you want to go up at half the speed using twice the motion.

Crown travel, positioning, climbing back up while tending slack, and final abseil. These are generally where most of the time is spent. Ascenders are used only when there is non-climbable ascent to deal with, like from the ground to the tree, and the occasional long, limbless stem. Other than that, a device-based climb is done on a piece that allows precise friction control, hands-free lockoff and one-handed, exact positioning on the rope. 1:1 preferable (doubled or single), 2:1 (doubled) optional.

These are a few of the items on our requirements list. If a device doesn't fill our bill, we need to offer suggestions on how to modify it, or we scrap it for better options.

I'm with JayD on the 'Holy Grail', which to me is an uncomplicated device allowing ascent, descent and primarily 1:1 friction control in single or doubled rope fashion. This would be a Uni-device, and honestly, that's not what the thread is about. We started with friction control from the simplest of simplest forms (chain link), touched on figure 8's and have moved up a rung (belay tubes).

In the next step, let's move up to the most natural next level, slightly more complex, and pieces that actually fulfil our requirements list.
1:1 single, 1:1 doubled and 2:1 doubled, intrinsic lockoff, low-resistance slack tending, accurate, exacting, precision control of your position on rope.

Focus on the lockoff. That is something that 2:1 friction hitch climbers don't have as part of their reality. For the larger part of our Arborist population, lockoff is always there, unless you unlock, then you can move around. You have to manage your hitch from lockoff to free, and back to lockoff every time you take your hand off the hitch. With devices, you manage from free to lockoff, and back to free. I can see where it might be like having learned to drive on the left side of the road, then being somewhere where you have to drive on the right. It takes adjustment, but only discovering the new benefits will open the boxes we build around ourselves.

28th October 2007, 07:57 AM	#280 (permalink)
Tree Machine Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 697	Simplicity Sounds like we're taking the climb out of climbing. To keep this thread from going too many directions, we been working a path where ascent is assumed via ascenders, 1:1 preferable, 2:1 if you want to go up at half the speed using twice the motion. Crown travel, positioning, climbing back up while tending slack, and final abseil. These are generally where most of the time is spent. Ascenders are used only when there is non-climbable ascent to deal with, like from the ground to the tree, and the occasional long, limbless stem. Other than that, a device-based climb is done on a piece that allows precise friction control, hands-free lockoff and one-handed, exact positioning on the rope. 1:1 preferable (doubled or single), 2:1 (doubled) optional. These are a few of the items on our requirements list. If a device doesn't fill our bill, we need to offer suggestions on how to modify it, or we scrap it for better options. I'm with JayD on the 'Holy Grail', which to me is an uncomplicated device allowing ascent, descent and primarily 1:1 friction control in single or doubled rope fashion. This would be a Uni-device, and honestly, that's not what the thread is about. We started with friction control from the simplest of simplest forms (chain link), touched on figure 8's and have moved up a rung (belay tubes). In the next step, let's move up to the most natural next level, slightly more complex, and pieces that actually fulfil our requirements list. 1:1 single, 1:1 doubled and 2:1 doubled, intrinsic lockoff, low-resistance slack tending, accurate, exacting, precision control of your position on rope. Focus on the lockoff. That is something that 2:1 friction hitch climbers don't have as part of their reality. For the larger part of our Arborist population, lockoff is always there, unless you unlock, then you can move around. You have to manage your hitch from lockoff to free, and back to lockoff every time you take your hand off the hitch. With devices, you manage from free to lockoff, and back to free. I can see where it might be like having learned to drive on the left side of the road, then being somewhere where you have to drive on the right. It takes adjustment, but only discovering the new benefits will open the boxes we build around ourselves.